Child Does Not Want to Visit His Father Over Christmas Break

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Ohio

My ex and I have a 13 year old son together. I am the custodial parent and live in Ohio and my ex lives in Georgia. My ex has never taken an active interest in our son until he was 10 years old. He was not at the hospital when our son was born and did not even care to see him for the first 2 years of his life. He eventually joined the Marines and is now currently stationed in Georgia. Visitation was established once my ex joined the Marines; however he was stationed across the country so our visitation schedule was not actively followed. I allowed my son to keep in contact and visit with my ex's family regularly and when my ex would be in town, my son would go in visit. It was very difficult when my son was younger because there was at times over a year between any form of communication with his father. My ex and our son do communicate by phone, but it is sporadically. Our current visitation agreement is standard-every other weekend, rotating holidays, etc.

However, due to the fact of my ex being out of state we do not follow the order. Basically, my ex calls me and lets me know when he will be in town for a weekend, holiday, etc, or tells me when he would like him to fly down for visits. My son usually only sees his dad about 3-4 times a year. With the holidays coming up my ex and I have been talking about plans and he informed me of when he wants our son to fly down over Christmas break(something our son has never done before). He wants our son December 27th thru January 2nd. The problem is that my son really does not want to go for the whole week. He is willing to go down for a few days but he wants to return before New Years Day. My son is telling me everyday how much he does not want to go and that he will refuse to go to the airport. My son just recently made the basketball team and has practices that whole week which he will have to miss. I felt this was something that my son needed to discuss with his father and let him know his concerns with missing practice. I have always allowed my ex to dictate exactly when he sees my son, sometimes with little or no notice at all. He will call me a day before he is in town wanting to see him.

I try to be understanding to his career, but as my son gets older his priorities are with sports and friends and he is fighting me about visiting his dad over Christmas break. I have strictly enforced that he needs to visit him and not going is not an option, but I also understand my son's position of not wanting to go the whole week. My son texted his dad last week and let him know that he would only like to stay until the 30th. This infuriated my ex and they got into a childish back and forth texting match, in which my ex informed him he would now be staying extra time because of his attitude about not wanting to go. My ex is unwilling to listen at all and compromise about the situation. I tried talking with my ex last night and I informed him that I wasn't tying at all to keep him from him but I explained the basketball practices and my ex just said he doesn't care he has plans and that is final--he will be staying the whole week. My son is very upset and I have been trying to explain that his dad is really trying to have a relationship with him and needs to understand, but my son does not understand why his dad can't compromise. My son is so worried about being suspended from the basketball team for missing too many practices.

I guess my question is, should I just allow my son to go the whole week without talking to my ex any further? I do understand my son's point and I'm not trying to keep my son from my ex, I just don't see why my ex can't be understanding and compromise more with my son. Should I let my son and his dad work this out on their own, or should I step in and state my concerns? Their relationship is already not the greatest and it is important for them to spend time together, but is forcing him really the right move.

I know you said you don't follow it but does your court order reference anything about Winter Break? Sometimes it is in a separate section then the actual holidays.

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Quoting readytoleave

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I know you said you don't follow it but does your court order reference anything about Winter Break? Sometimes it is in a separate section then the actual holidays.

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This...

You need to pull out the order and see exactly what it says about holidays, particularly Christmas Break.

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I try to be understanding to his career, but as my son gets older his priorities are with sports and friends and he is fighting me about visiting his dad over Christmas break. I have strictly enforced that he needs to visit him and not going is not an option, but I also understand my son's position of not wanting to go the whole week. My son texted his dad last week and let him know that he would only like to stay until the 30th.

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That right there is why you have the problem. No matter what the court order says, your son should not have been the one "bargaining" with Dad.

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This infuriated my ex and they got into a childish back and forth texting match, in which my ex informed him he would now be staying extra time because of his attitude about not wanting to go.

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I swear I've seen this same wording very recently. I wonder if the "other adult" in this has written. Regardless, your son should never have been allowed to have that conversation to begin with. Please don't tell me you didn't know - if you don't know what your son is texting and to whom you have a bigger problem.

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My ex is unwilling to listen at all and compromise about the situation. I tried talking with my ex last night and I informed him that I wasn't tying at all to keep him from him but I explained the basketball practices and my ex just said he doesn't care he has plans and that is final--he will be staying the whole week.

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Regardless of what your order says, I think that the real problem goes much deeper and has little if anything to do with the actual wording of a court order.

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Ah. Okay. Folks, please read: http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/show...ht=#post888626

This isn't a one-off. This is a pattern of letting the child control and then making the other parent (Dad in this case) the bad guy.

I did know that my son was texting his father. My son was getting upset and crying to me because he didn't want to stay the whole week and miss basketball. I told him to call his dad and talk about the situation calmly and let him know how he felt. It was not about bargaining, but having his dad understand his side and feelings.

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Quoting dbbrown2

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I did know that my son was texting his father. My son was getting upset and crying to me because he didn't want to stay the whole week and miss basketball. I told him to call his dad and talk about the situation calmly and let him know how he felt. It was not about bargaining, but having his dad understand his side and feelings.

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Mom, you put your son in the middle of it - again. When your son gets upset and cries about not wanting to go to school, you give him that look, right? You know the one - the look that tells him this isn't going to wash and he best knock it off now before you do it for him? A lot of his stress is because you keep putting him in the middle and letting him call the shots. Stop it. You're doing him no favors.

I told him that he was going over Christmas break--end of story (just like I have told him every other time) What is wrong with having him discuss his feelings with his father? I thought that maybe dad would show compassion and explain how he wanted to see him and fun things they were going to do to try to make our son feel better. It had nothing to do with we manipulating our son, because I actually believe that my ex is really trying and I think it is important for them to spend time together so that they do not grow further apart. I grew up in a split home too and I always liked that my dad was open to our discussions about me not wanting to go for a weekend, holiday, etc. He might not have always given me my way, but I least I felt that he was listening and understanding. As a parent, I'm learning everyday too--it is hard to determine the balance of letting a child have a voice in certain situations(that does not mean he gets his way-but that he is heard). My motive is to be the best parent I can-I'm not letting him call the shots--I have accommodated every request my ex has had.

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Quoting dbbrown2

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I did know that my son was texting his father. My son was getting upset and crying to me because he didn't want to stay the whole week and miss basketball. I told him to call his dad and talk about the situation calmly and let him know how he felt. It was not about bargaining, but having his dad understand his side and feelings.

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let me repeat what I said in your other thread:

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Your son doesn't have the right to object. Not at all. You could be found in contempt. Contempt is punishable by up to 30 days in jail for the first offense. And some judges have put custodial parents in jail for a few days to learn their lesson.

Why are you putting your CHILD in the middle? No really. He is a child. He is being disrespectful to his father and you are allowing it. Your son doesn't get to refuse to visit with his father. Your son can be adamant about not going but then he should go NOWHERE -- he stays in his room without anything and can stare at four walls. No tv, no video games, no phone, no nothing. The fact that you are allowing your CHILD to dictate how long he goes to visit his father in the summer is ridiculous and you are shirking your parental duty to give yourself an excuse not to be the "bad guy" and actually back up your ex. Pathetic.

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I could see you being sent to jail for a few days.

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Quoting Ohiogal

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let me repeat what I said in your other thread:

I could see you being sent to jail for a few days.

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That is completely over the top...and you know it. Lots of things could happen here but the OP going to jail for even a few days is NOT one of those things.

Why in the world would you even say that?

I could be sent to jail for asking my ex to shorten his visit by a couple of days so that our son can go to basketball practice? According to our agreement he only gets to see my son for half of his Christmas Vacation and he is asking for 8 of the 11 days of vacation. I was never suggesting that my son not go visit, only that he compromise and consider my son's basketball schedule. Additionally, I think this would be different if my ex had been an active part of my son's life, but when he decides when my child is 10 that he wants to see him and be a dad- It makes it difficult for my son.

So, Mom, speak with the basketball coach about Son missing practice. Your son is NOT the first, nor will he be the last child to miss some kind of extracurriculars because of visitation.

Get son into counseling if adjusting to having Dad around is making 'it difficult' (whatever that is).

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Quoting dbbrown2

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I told him that he was going over Christmas break--end of story (just like I have told him every other time) What is wrong with having him discuss his feelings with his father? I thought that maybe dad would show compassion and explain how he wanted to see him and fun things they were going to do to try to make our son feel better.

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Sigh. You're not getting it. You're just not. Discussing feelings is one thing - and that's perhaps why they could discuss them together, in a neutral place perhaps (dinner, anyone?) ONCE HE GOT THERE. But I think you know that. In fact, I take that back. I think you get it. I think you get it very well, actually.

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It had nothing to do with we manipulating our son, because I actually believe that my ex is really trying and I think it is important for them to spend time together so that they do not grow further apart. I grew up in a split home too and I always liked that my dad was open to our discussions about me not wanting to go for a weekend, holiday, etc. He might not have always given me my way, but I least I felt that he was listening and understanding. As a parent, I'm learning everyday too--it is hard to determine the balance of letting a child have a voice in certain situations(that does not mean he gets his way-but that he is heard). My motive is to be the best parent I can-I'm not letting him call the shots--I have accommodated every request my ex has had.

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You did this in the summer. What have you learned since then?

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Quoting dbbrown2

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I could be sent to jail for asking my ex to shorten his visit by a couple of days so that our son can go to basketball practice? According to our agreement he only gets to see my son for half of his Christmas Vacation and he is asking for 8 of the 11 days of vacation. I was never suggesting that my son not go visit, only that he compromise and consider my son's basketball schedule. Additionally, I think this would be different if my ex had been an active part of my son's life, but when he decides when my child is 10 that he wants to see him and be a dad- It makes it difficult for my son.

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Dad has been around for 3 years now. When are you going to stop throwing that excuse around? Seriously - when? What, you haven't been able to help your son adjust in THREE YEARS?

Look. Your mutual child just made the team, right? If he's a star in the making, missing a couple of practices isn't going to change anything. And if he's not, well ... missing a couple of practices isn't going to change anything.

Mom, I want you to do something.

Walk away. Go. Log out. Then come back and read this (and your other) thread again, from the perspective of someone who doesn't know you, Dad or your son.

I think you'll find it very telling.

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Quoting llworking

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That is completely over the top...and you know it. Lots of things could happen here but the OP going to jail for even a few days is NOT one of those things.

Why in the world would you even say that?

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Because per statute, it's a possible result. *shrug*.

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Quoting llworking

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That is completely over the top...and you know it. Lots of things could happen here but the OP going to jail for even a few days is NOT one of those things.

Why in the world would you even say that?

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Because I am an attorney in Ohio who does family law and I have seen judges put CPs in jail that violate visitation orders. That is why. It is NOT completely over the top. IT HAPPENS. How long have you practiced in Ohio?

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Quoting dbbrown2

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I could be sent to jail for asking my ex to shorten his visit by a couple of days so that our son can go to basketball practice? According to our agreement he only gets to see my son for half of his Christmas Vacation and he is asking for 8 of the 11 days of vacation. I was never suggesting that my son not go visit, only that he compromise and consider my son's basketball schedule. Additionally, I think this would be different if my ex had been an active part of my son's life, but when he decides when my child is 10 that he wants to see him and be a dad- It makes it difficult for my son.

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Dad doesn't have to compromise. You have to quit letting your son think he has a choice. You have a court order that needs followed. Making dad the bad guy is going to make it very easy for an Ohio court to find you in contempt and sentence you.

Send the child before Christmas Day - as soon as school is out for the break - and then he can return early.

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Quoting Ohiogal

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Because I am an attorney in Ohio who does family law and I have seen judges put CPs in jail that violate visitation orders. That is why. It is NOT completely over the top. IT HAPPENS. How long have you practiced in Ohio?

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We all know that you are an attorney in Ohio, you do not have to keep reminding us. My objection to your comment was not because you stated that statutorily jail is possible in a contempt situation, but your assertion that jail was actually likely for this parent.

We all know that jail is one of the last resort solutions to contempt...and simply does not happen with a first time contempt. IF dad takes mom to court for contempt its going to be a first time contempt. We all know that the likely outcome of that is that mom will get a stern lecture from the judge and perhaps a relatively small fine.

Nobody disagrees that mom has not handled things quite as well as she should have. However she does appear to be trying to do the right thing by all parties. Telling her that you "could see her spending a few days in jail", was just way over the top.

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Quoting llworking

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We all know that you are an attorney in Ohio, you do not have to keep reminding us. My objection to your comment was not because you stated that statutorily jail is possible in a contempt situation, but your assertion that jail was actually likely for this parent.

We all know that jail is one of the last resort solutions to contempt...and simply does not happen with a first time contempt. IF dad takes mom to court for contempt its going to be a first time contempt. We all know that the likely outcome of that is that mom will get a stern lecture from the judge and perhaps a relatively small fine.

Nobody disagrees that mom has not handled things quite as well as she should have. However she does appear to be trying to do the right thing by all parties. Telling her that you "could see her spending a few days in jail", was just way over the top.

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I stand by what I said. I have seen it happen on a first time contempt that a parent is sentenced and spends a few days in jail for visitation/custody issues. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN quite a few times. So no, what I said is NOT over the top. Because of her attitude in the summer and now, letting junior choose and dictate what he wants, I could see a judge sentencing mom to a few days in jail. That is fact. You may not like it but I spoke the truth. And I disagree that mom is trying to do the right thing by all parties. She is trying to make dad the bad guy.

Let me clarify about the summer. My son did go for a month-there was no argument from me! In the two years prior my ex had mentioned wanting my son for a month. The first year my ex mentioned it to me in the spring, I said that was fine just let me know when so that I can plan vacation accordingly. I additionally asked him if he had looked into daycare for while he was at work. He felt at 11 my son was old enough to stay home alone the whole day and I disagreed and said he needed to have child care. I actually looked into daycare in his area and emailed him the information. When it got closer to the time I asked my ex about it and he said he looked into daycare and it seemed too expensive so I just wouldn't work out that year. My son never even knew we had discussed the month long visit. The next summer it was told to my son that he would be going for a month. He protested of course, but I made it clear to my son that he would be going. I discussed the issue with my ex about my son not wanting to stay for the whole month. We discussed it and agreed that we would start with 2-3 weeks at a time since the longest he had been with his dad at a time had been 4 days. We had planned on our son going down to visit on two separate occasions for 2 weeks periods. My ex's schedule changed and he wasn't able for him to come down again that summer. There was no protest this last summer-my son did not want to go, I told him too bad. The situation you are referring to was an additional weekend this summer when my ex was in town and did not want to go. I have never denied any visit that my ex has requested so I'm not sure how I could be held in contempt?

Ohiogal is giving you the worst case scenario outcome for a violation of the order. If you comply with the order, you won't be in violation of the order.

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Quoting T53147

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Send the child before Christmas Day - as soon as school is out for the break - and then he can return early.

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This was the original plan. The flights are much more expensive during those dates and my ex did not want to pay that much for his portion of the ticket.

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Dad doesn't have to compromise. You have to quit letting your son think he has a choice. You have a court order that needs followed. Making dad the bad guy is going to make it very easy for an Ohio court to find you in contempt and sentence you.

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I guess the problem is that our court order is not updated for the current circumstances. Our court order was issued when my ex lived in Ohio. At this point my ex gets everything he wants. He calls me tells me when he will see him and I abide. So my ex should never have to compromise if one of his requests doesn't exactly work out for me? Neither one of us is following the court order. I'm not giving my son the choice, just his right to voice his opinions to both me and his father.

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Quoting dbbrown2

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This was the original plan. The flights are much more expensive during those dates and my ex did not want to pay that much for his portion of the ticket.



I guess the problem is that our court order is not updated for the current circumstances. Our court order was issued when my ex lived in Ohio. At this point my ex gets everything he wants. He calls me tells me when he will see him and I abide. So my ex should never have to compromise if one of his requests doesn't exactly work out for me? Neither one of us is following the court order. I'm not giving my son the choice, just his right to voice his opinions to both me and his father.

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You could take it back to court to get an official long distance schedule. However, if you do, the minimum that dad will get is every other Thanksgiving, a week at Christmas, every or every other spring break, and 1/2 of the summer. He would probably get on top of that the right to visit in your community with a certain amount of notice. Two weeks notice is typical.

Sorry, but no. I disagree - very strongly - that Mom is trying to do the best by everyone. In fact, I think she's doing the exact opposite and she's knows it.

But hey, not my court order and not my kid. Then again if it was my kid we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with.