Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
My question involves civil rights in the State of: New York
I have other threads here pertaining to my matter. The simple version is that I was pulled over for speeding, then asked to step out of my vehicle, which I declined to do, and prior to declining I verbally requested speaking to legal counsel a few times. I requested legal counsel on many occasions during the interaction all of which were denied.
Was charged with DWI, obstruction, and harassment. My legal fees are about $5,500 for this matter.
I sat before a Judge at a DMV hearing & the judge dismissed the hearing, restoring my full driving privileges. Prior to this hearing, I re-obtained full driving privileges by another judge based around a motion that involved officers denying me legal counsel.
If all my charges get thrown out on this basis (I highly believe that they will), is it likely that I am able to file suit to reclaim my legal expenses for both these charges & my cost of hiring counsel to file this suit, and/or sue above and beyond these expenses for civil rights violations as well?
I will be consulting with a lawyer on all this, but am seeking input from anyone who has good advice.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
You can file any lawsuit that you choose to file but, as your lawyer has almost certainly already told you, you are not going to get the DMV, the state or the police department to reimburse you for your legal fees from that hearing.
Given that you don't deny that the traffic stop was justified by your speeding, and admit that you failed to obey a lawful order from a police officer, it seems exceptionally unlikely that you'll be able to establish any sort of civil rights violation even if the prosecutor chooses to dismiss the obstruction charge, if that's what we're talking about. At this point, however, it's not even clear what charges remain pending against you -- you have not shared that information with us.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
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Mr. Knowitall
You can file any lawsuit that you choose to file but, as your lawyer has almost certainly already told you, you are not going to get the DMV, the state or the police department to reimburse you for your legal fees from that hearing.
Given that you don't deny that the traffic stop was justified by your speeding, and admit that you failed to obey a lawful order from a police officer, it seems exceptionally unlikely that you'll be able to establish any sort of civil rights violation even if the prosecutor chooses to dismiss the obstruction charge, if that's what we're talking about. At this point, however, it's not even clear what charges remain pending against you -- you have not shared that information with us.
I am not a lawyer, but I believe being denied right to legal counsel, is very much so a civil rights violation from my understanding. Isn't that where the monies come from when someone wins a civil rights lawsuit? The state and/or county? If I can't sue on the basis of reimbursement, I should be able to sue on the basis of a civil rights violation, correct?
My traffic stop was justified, but I still interpret the situation as my rights being violated, when I was denied access to a lawyer from the very start.
My remaining charges are harassment 2nd, and obstruction of justice - these charges came AFTER I asked many times for a lawyer. All 3 officers admitted at a recorded, implied consent refusal hearing, that they all did in fact deny me an attorney upon every request I made, to have one. I asked for a phone inside the station and on the street when they stopped me, and they never complied. My phone was not on me & I have it's location logged in my Google Location History of the phone, which I imagine I can subpoena that personal record easily from Google if needed.
I think I have a very clear case of a civil rights violation from what I am seeing, going through this process.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
you have the right to have an attorney before a custodial interrogation.
you do not have the right to refuse to exit the vehicle without an attorney, you are fortunate your windows was not smashed in and you forcibly extracted through it at gunpoint.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
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Lehk
you have the right to have an attorney before a custodial interrogation.
you do not have the right to refuse to exit the vehicle without an attorney, you are fortunate your windows was not smashed in and you forcibly extracted through it at gunpoint.
I am aware of that, but as explained my rights were also violated in that regard, as they attempted to interrogate me, while denying me access to an attorney. I told them I was pleading the 5th, they never offered me a lawyer, and continued to ask me questions. They used my verbal comments of me telling them they were doing their job wrong during their attempted interrogation, in order to originate the harassment charge.
Based on what you said, does not mean my rights were not violated, cause they still were at the end of the day. If I am incorrect, I would need to understand how my rights WERE NOT violated, given the circumstances. My rights meaning just that of denied legal counsel. I suffered losses due to this, based on the violation of my rights.
They verbally stated on dash cam their reason for asking me to step out, was to insure I could drive (FST), to which I explained I wanted an attorney. They interrogated me on the street as well, although I continually told them I want a lawyer. They used my words on the street in their reports as well.
I agree, I am fortunate all though I truly do not care about what could of happened. I even invited them to shoot me if they wanted to, so that I could file suit. They never shot me though.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
We praise them for showing remarkable restraint in that lack of action!
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
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JoeyBloeySmoey
My traffic stop was justified, but I still interpret the situation as my rights being violated, when I was denied access to a lawyer from the very start.
Your request for a lawyer does not give you any right to refuse to comply with the lawful orders of a police officer. Your forgetting your phone at home is your own fault, not that of the police. You have already resolved the issue relating to your chemical test rights, by virtue of the fact that you still have your license.
Again, I expect that your lawyer has already explained all of this to you.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
I understand that I am technically required to get out if an officer simply wants me to get out of a car.
To my knowledge, reasonable grounds have to be established in order to request an FST in NY. Officers used reason of eye color, face color, and smell. Eye color, face color, and smell are not technically legal grounds for probable cause so I fail to see how they are reasonable grounds either, in order to request an FST. I was being asked to get out of the car for the reason of FST, which I did not determine to be legal, due to the above. If it was just a simple request to get out it would be different in that regard, but they were telling me to get out on the basis that I had demonstrate I could drive (FST).
Me forgetting my phone is my fault, yes. They officers still don't have the right to deny me my right to counsel though. They were supposed to provide me a phone & 24/7 lawyer contact from inside the barracks according to the DMV judge, but the officers refused to, even though I repeatedly told them I want counsel. Correct, this is the reason as to why I still have my license.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
Behavior like this is what can get a person killed.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
That YOU personally "fail to see" how this is reasonable grounds does not mean it isn't. And that you were treated roughly and charged with what you are charged with means nothing except that you and the officers had a different viewpoint, and sharing your viewpoint, as well as your arguments at that particular time, were inappropriate, if not totally off base.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
You don't really believe that they're require to deliver an attorney to you at the side of the road, do you?
No, you couldn't really believe that. I must be misunderstanding you.
Re: Can You Sue the State to Recover Attorney Fees from a DMV Hearing
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Quoting
JoeyBloeySmoey
My question involves civil rights in the State of: New York
I have other threads here pertaining to my matter. The simple version is that I was pulled over for speeding, then asked to step out of my vehicle, which I declined to do, and prior to declining I verbally requested speaking to legal counsel a few times. I requested legal counsel on many occasions during the interaction all of which were denied.
Was charged with DWI, obstruction, and harassment. My legal fees are about $5,500 for this matter.
I sat before a Judge at a DMV hearing & the judge dismissed the hearing, restoring my full driving privileges. Prior to this hearing, I re-obtained full driving privileges by another judge based around a motion that involved officers denying me legal counsel.
If all my charges get thrown out on this basis (I highly believe that they will), is it likely that I am able to file suit to reclaim my legal expenses for both these charges & my cost of hiring counsel to file this suit, and/or sue above and beyond these expenses for civil rights violations as well?
I will be consulting with a lawyer on all this, but am seeking input from anyone who has good advice.
what makes you think the charges will be thrown out? I think your victory with the DMV will be a hollow victory. The obstruction charge as you have explained things is pretty solid. You have a right to request counsel prior to a chemical test. You do not have a right to refuse to exit the vehicle when ordered to do so and a field sobriety test is not a chem test so they can subject you to FST's without allowing you to contact counsel. If you will read what Mr K posted in your other thread, you will also notice that you are allowed to speak with counsel prior to submitting to a chem test IF it does not unduly delay the test. Since you did not have a phone, unless you are secretly the Flash, any attempt to contact your attorney would be an undue delay and as such, you gave up your right, at least prior to returning to the jail.
a criminal court is going to be very different from your DMV hearing.
but anyway; no, you have no claim to recoup your legal expenses for being arrested when there was probable cause to arrest you, which they did.
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JoeyBloeySmoey
They used my words on the street in their reports as well.
.
Your point?
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JoeyBloeySmoey
To my knowledge, reasonable grounds have to be established in order to request an FST in NY. Officers used reason of eye color, face color, and smell. Eye color, face color, and smell are not technically legal grounds for probable cause
they didn't need probable cause but reasonable suspicion. Very very different levels of evidence between the two.
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Me forgetting my phone is my fault, yes. They officers still don't have the right to deny me my right to counsel though.
on the side of the road? Sure it does. You have a right to counsel PRIOR TO A CHEM TEST if it does not cause an undue delay. How do you propose you obtain counsel along side the road and it not cause an undue delay?
and what chem test were they going to perform alongside the road? I doubt they had the equipment with them to perform a chem test.
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They were supposed to provide me a phone
alongside the road? Nope.