Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violation
My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: WASHINGTON
I just received my hearing notice, and will request discovery in about a month (closer to my hearing date the week of Thanksgiving). But, I wanted to list the facts, and ask your thoughts on a couple of possible defenses.
At about 8am I was heading South on WA-195 south of Spokane. The left lane where I was pulled over was coned off for construction and where I was stopped was about 100 feet before there were workers and equipment in that left lane. I was driving 58 (according to the officer) in the right lane. I never actually checked my speedometer because I was pacing the car in front of me, and the speed did not seem excessive. For the construction zone, the limit was reduced to 45. The trooper, who was standing next to his motorcycle in the middle of the left lane (which was closed and separated with pylons), flagged the driver in front of me and pointed for him to pull over. I started to maneuver around that driver, and made eye contact with the officer who then pointed for me to pull over. He then came to my window, informed me that he had clocked me at 58 and that I was following the vehicle in front of me too closely, took my license and registration, and went to the other vehicle. On his way back to his motorcycle (which he had pulled behind me), he stopped at my window to ask if I was related to an officer he knew with the same last name (and I was not), then continued to his motorcycle. He returned to my vehicle handed me a citation for 5 MPH over the limit (limit >40MPH), said he did not double it for the construction zone, and sent me on my way. I asked for a picture with him, and he obliged.
There are two circumstances that I believe may be of merit. First, according to the theory in this article (http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...et-1251408.php) I could make a case that the officer parked on a roadway (RCW 46.61.560 [1]), was standing in the roadway, and as a pedestrian failing to "move clear of the roadway" when "meeting an oncoming vehicle" (RCW 46.61.250 [2]), was in violation of the law, and therefore the evidence was collected illegally. I could also add that the officer made an unsafe lane change (and drove against traffic) to pull his bike behind me, in the absence of an emergency situation. Second, the officer claimed I was following too closely to the vehicle in front of me, but also claimed that he "clocked" me. I do not have his statement yet, but is the statement that I was following too close sufficient to impeach the radar/lidar for lack of having a clear view?
Thanks in advance.
Re: Spokane Wa Speeding Ticket, Possible Defenses
Why are procrastinating on the discovery?
Anyhow, I think Hu got lucky. There's no legal principal that an officer can't break traffic laws in enforcing traffic laws.
Certainly you're not going to get anywhere arguing that he can't move quickly in an attempt to catch a illegally speeding motorist. By you argument, cops would never catch speeders.
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
Was he in the coned off area of the road when he pulled you over? If yes, I don't think you have a case on those merits. Also, he pulled his bike behind you AFTER he pulled you over, so it's not relevant. You might embarrass the officer, but I don't think it's the same situation as Hu's.
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
Whether the officer did or did not commit a moving violation has no bearing on whether you were or were not speeding.
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
Quote:
Quoting
cbg
Whether the officer did or did not commit a moving violation has no bearing on whether you were or were not speeding.
He's grasping at the Hu case (that he posted a link to the news) which is a rather dubious decision by one non-appellate judge (which says it means NOTHING as precedent) that says that officers who park illegally have the evidence of speeding obtained that way as inadmissible. Even the allegations that the officer was indeed parked illegally are a bit controversial (and far from settled).
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
Yeah, I get that.
I'm telling him he's wrong.
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
There is a statute that grants police certain exceptions to traffic rules, RCW 46.61.035, which reads:
Quote:
(1) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this section, but subject to the conditions herein stated.
(2) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:
(a) Park or stand, irrespective of the provisions of this chapter;
(b) Proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign, but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;
(c) Exceed the maximum speed limits so long as he or she does not endanger life or property;
(d) Disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.
(3) The exemptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle shall apply only when such vehicle is making use of visual signals meeting the requirements of RCW 46.37.190, except that: (a) An authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle need not be equipped with or display a red light visible from in front of the vehicle; (b) authorized emergency vehicles shall use audible signals when necessary to warn others of the emergency nature of the situation but in no case shall they be required to use audible signals while parked or standing.
(4) The foregoing provisions shall not relieve the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the safety of all persons, nor shall such provisions protect the driver from the consequences of his or her reckless disregard for the safety of others.
In all other circumstances, police are required to obey the same rules you or I are obliged to follow. And, if an officer is violating those laws, it follows that any evidence collected as a result would be inadmissible. If that is not the case, I have to wonder about how blue that blindfold lady liberty is wearing is.
As to delaying discovery, I was under the impression that making the request just in time for the 14-day deadline increased the likelihood of NOT receiving it within 7-days of the hearing, providing potential grounds for dismissal. If this is not practical or has other implications, I am certainly interested in hearing them.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes, he was in the coned off area of the road.
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
Quote:
Quoting
crckrmn77
ed to obey the same rules you or I are obliged to follow. And, if an officer is violating those laws, it follows that any evidence collected as a result would be inadmissible. If that is not the case, I have to wonder about how blue that blindfold lady liberty is wearing is.
No, it does not follow. Just because a law is broken, doesn't make the evidence inadmissible. While an illegal search and siezure generally poisons the admissibility of the evidence that's not what is happening here. This isn't a search. It's the collection of evidence in a place where there's no constitutional guarantee nor even an expectation of privacy. The exclusionary rule doesn't get invoked just because any random crime that may have occurred while the evidence is collected.
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
You are free to complain to his employer about any perceived violations you observed. In the meantime, those violations provide no requirement that he state must exclude any evidence obtained as a result of the officer's attempts to catch a perpetrator.
Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket by Claiming the Officer Committed a Moving Violati
Fair enough. Is there any potential harm in trying that avenue? Also, is there any potential harm in delaying my request for discovery that would outweigh the potential defense should discovery not be provided in a timely manner? And, is there any potential defense, based upon the use of radar and the troopers claim that I was following too closely?