What to Do After Getting a Red Light Camera Ticket

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: CA

Received from the mail last week a Notice of Traffic Violation. Based on the notice, I apparently violated CVC 21453(a) or the Failure to Stop at Red Light. The following is a redacted version of the notice:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cjpg

Early this week, I received the Courtesy Notice from the court regarding the said violation. The notice, which I also redacted, follows:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi...nt=photo%2cjpg

I want to fight this in court. Is it worth fighting this? What are my chances? If I have a chance, how do I go about contesting this?

I appreciate feedback from those who may have an experience contesting this type of violation or any advice from the forum experts.

You haven't given us any facts that would suggest that the ticket is not 100% valid, with you clearly depicted behind the wheel. Do you have any facts you would like to share that would support a defense, or are you hoping for a technicality?

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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You haven't given us any facts that would suggest that the ticket is not 100% valid, with you clearly depicted behind the wheel.

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Oh yeah, the ticket is valid. But I thought I could make the right turn legally after stopping briefly. There was no "NO TURN ON RED" sign in the area except the "PHOTO ENFORCED" sign. Does this sign indicate that I could not make the right turn? I did make a number of right turns on the opposite side (E/B) before and no cameras were triggered. I have also seen southbound cars turning right onto Mowry Blvd and no apparent camera flashes occurred. So I thought it was safe to turn right despite the presence of the automated cameras.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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Do you have any facts you would like to share that would support a defense, or are you hoping for a technicality?

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To be honest, I don't have a defense yet. This is my first camera ticket. Before building my defense, I think I need to know first what those numbers on top of the photos in the notice are and possibly some basic traffic law.

Let me write the top caption on the photos here and if you, Mr. Knowitall and other experts, could help me understand them.

The top photo has the following:

Location:NWK-MOCE-01 W/B Mowry and Cedar, Newark, CA(v.4.12.98.0)
Date: Sunday 30 August 2015 Time: 11:51:03 Frame: 2 Speed Limit: 35 MPH
Lane: 5 Vehicle Speed: 18 MPH RED: 1.57 ELAPSED TIME: 0.00


The second photo has the following markings:

Location:NWK-MOCE-01 W/B Mowry and Cedar, Newark, CA(v.4.12.98.0)
Date: Sunday 30 August 2015 Time: 11:51:03 Frame: 2 Speed Limit: 35 MPH
Lane: 5 Vehicle Speed: 18 MPH RED: 2.35 ELAPSED TIME: 0.78


If I understand it right, these numbers (especially the Elapsed Time) apparently indicate that I stopped momentarily before turning to the right. Humanly speaking, shouldn't that be allowed? Cameras of course won't consider that as they are programmed to activate anytime you cross the line.

By all means, I intend to fight this ticket with any viable defense possible or on a technicality.

Your advice and that of the others is much appreciated.

Most of the numbers are self explanatory.

NWK-MOCE-01 identifies the camera at that location.

(v.4.12.98.0) is more than likely the software version they are running.

Frame 2 - Unknown

Lane 5 identifies the lane in which you vehicle was traveling.

Vehicle Speed indicates your vehicle was traveling at 18 MPH when the violation occurred.

Red 1.57 means the light had been red for 1.57 seconds when the first picture was taken.

Red 2.35 means the light had been red for 2.35 seconds when the second picture had been taken.

Elapsed times of 0.00 and 0.78 indicated 0.78 seconds elapsed between the first and second pictures being taken.

It would appear you failed to stop for the red light and sailed through the intersection at 18 MPH. I'm not sure what your defense can be here other than you do not want to be guilty. Judges don't give much weight to that argument.

First of all, the ticket is $500. Of course it is worth fighting, always.

Secondly, you are saying it was a right turn, and that you came to a full stop, brief or not, before turning. If there was no sign indicating otherwise (i.e., "NO RIGHT TURN"), then you did nothing illegal.

Thirdly, there should be a link to see a video too on one of those two notices. See if you can find it. The video is the only way to prove whether you did or did not stop. The cameras cannot figure that part out, they only register you crossing the limit line during a red light - whether you turned right or went straight. If you can't find the video, challenge the ticket anyway if you think you made the stop before turning. The video may still be available to the judge, but, then again, it may not. Some judges will also dismiss red camera tickets out of hand.

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Quoting kokobill

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First of all, the ticket is $500. Of course it is worth fighting, always.

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That's why I want to fight this in court because of what I think an exorbitant amount of fee for ordinary folks like me. The excessive penalty is obviously not meant to keep our roads safe but to maintain a steady source of income for the city.

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Quoting kokobill

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Secondly, you are saying it was a right turn, and that you came to a full stop, brief or not, before turning. If there was no sign indicating otherwise (i.e., "NO RIGHT TURN"), then you did nothing illegal.

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About coming to a full stop, more about that later. As to the sign, I can confirm, after revisiting the place of the alleged incident, that there is no single sign that prohibits turning to the right (i.e. "NO TURN ON RED").

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Quoting kokobill

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Thirdly, there should be a link to see a video too on one of those two notices. See if you can find it. The video is the only way to prove whether you did or did not stop. The cameras cannot figure that part out, they only register you crossing the limit line during a red light - whether you turned right or went straight. If you can't find the video, challenge the ticket anyway if you think you made the stop before turning. The video may still be available to the judge, but, then again, it may not. Some judges will also dismiss red camera tickets out of hand.

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The first time I visited the link provided in the Notice, a video of the incident was unavailable at that time. Upon your suggestion, I went back to it today and this time a video appears along with the same photos found in the Notice. I really thought I had stopped at the intersection, but the video seems to show otherwise. I wish I could insert the video here now, but maybe tomorrow when I could figure out how to make a copy of it from the source.

After seeing the video, I think L-1 may be right in his conclusion after all.

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Quoting L-1

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It would appear you failed to stop for the red light and sailed through the intersection at 18 MPH. I'm not sure what your defense can be here other than you do not want to be guilty. Judges don't give much weight to that argument.

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Yes, the video appears to show I sailed through. Nonetheless, I am still determined to contest this in court.

I'll wait to hear feedback from you guys after I post the video later.

One other thing to consider ... if you try to fight this and lose (and if the video shows you failed to stop, you will lose), the court is not likely to permit you to take traffic school. They MAY, but, they are not required to, and the tendency is to NOT allow traffic school after losing at trial.

So, if you do not wish to see an insurance spike as a result of a moving violation, you may want to consider paying the fine and accepting traffic school.

Thanks for the reply, cdwjava.

After reviewing the video a number of times, I can now say that I have indeed sailed through. I think what happened was I was following another car which tried to race straight through the intersection while the orange light was on. While I was following that car, I think I got carried away and tried to make it as well. Since I was turning right, I had to slow down and therefore had been unable to beat the light. So I think there's no need to post the video as I think I am guilty as charged.

I guess my next question is what could be the possible scenarios and chances if this ticket was fought based on technicality?

If I pay the fine and go to traffic school as cdwjava suggests, can I ask that the fine be reduced? I'm sure the court clerk/teller (whoever accepts the payment) won't have the power to grant a reduction of fine. Should it be done then with the judge during arraignment?

To beat it on a "technicality," you have to find one. What "technicality" do you believe exists here? And, if you try and fight it and the court disagrees with you, you're back in the boat of a large fine AND an insurance increase.

You can always ASK the arraignment court judge to reduce it, but, he may not have the authority to do that as the hearing is generally for the sole purpose of a plea and setting a trial date.

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Quoting cdwjava

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To beat it on a "technicality," you have to find one. What "technicality" do you believe exists here? And, if you try and fight it and the court disagrees with you, you're back in the boat of a large fine AND an insurance increase.

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On a technicality, I am thinking about the time I received the Notice of Traffic Violation. I think I read somewhere that it has to be served within 15 days. I think I received the Notice on the 14th or 15th. 14th is the last day of the 15-day limit, while the 15th is way past it. The envelope has a postmark of 9/9, but I got it on the 14th or the 15th from my mailbox. In fact, I accessed the link (photonotice.com) provided in the Notice the day I got it.

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Quoting cdwjava

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You can always ASK the arraignment court judge to reduce it, but, he may not have the authority to do that as the hearing is generally for the sole purpose of a plea and setting a trial date.

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Who then to ask and has the power to grant such a reduction, if at all possible?