Denied Unemployment After Getting Fired for Breach of Job Duties

My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Indiana

I was recently fired because my boss said was a lack of trust. She cited an incident but did not let me explain anything to her. Just had all my personal items packed in boxes.

She denied by unemployment because of "breach of job duties". Considering I never had a list of job duties except to do whatever it took to keep the office running and that was my account of what my job was. Basically she claimed to unemployment that I ordered items from Staples that she did not approve. However, she saw all orders from Staples and knew everything that was being ordered. I even asked her if I could order a $10 item to save on shipping and handling and she said that was fine as long as I paid it back which I did. She had asked me about items on other orders and I explained what they were. She even told me when she was out of the office and I was out of envelopes to go ahead and order what ever I needed/wanted. Because she knew she would see the order. One of the items she questioned was a free promotional items that Staples gives you with an order. We have done these in the past and use the items in the office.

She interviewed my replacement about a month before she let me go. She had worked with her before. Should I mention this since I can't really prove it. Except she told me the woman was coming in to interview. And afterword told me the woman wanted full-time and she could only offer part-time. Or that fact that I questioned her about a missing receipt from the book (and the copy) and she told me that she just took the cash because she didn't have any on her ($100). Or the fact that she had me order her personal home cleaning and paper products on the Staples account and she bought all her step-daughters back-to-school supplies on the Staples account..

I am appealing but I am unclear exactly what I should say in my appeal and how to word it. What would give me the best chance to win the appeal?

You would tell the truth. From what you are telling us, that would be that everything you did was authorized, that one of the questioned items was a freebie, and all items (including the freebie) were used by the business.

Your boss did not deny your unemployment - the state did.

She has an unconditional right to contest, just as you have an unconditional right to apply and both of you have the unconditional right to appeal if the decision goes against you. But the state, and only the state, decides when unemployment is granted and when it is denied.

An employer contesting does not automatically mean benefits are denied; an employer not contesting does not automatically mean benefit are granted.

Does that mean that you think I would or would not be able to get benefits? And how should I word it? Should I say anything about my replacement?
Thanks.

It doesn't mean either. I don't have an opinion on the matter. Just explaining how the process works.

commentator will be coming by later and she's very good at explaining how to word appeals. Hold on for her.

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Quoting inmom

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Does that mean that you think I would or would not be able to get benefits? And how should I word it?

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What you are writing is a REQUEST for an appeal. All you say is, "the determination dated mm/dd/yy is wrong. I want an appeal hearing scheduled."

That's it? I don't explain anything? I already had to talk to a Deputy at the Adjudication Center and he entered the denial.

You'll have your opportunity to do any explaining at the hearing. To do so now, just puts your employer on notice of your strategy.

About this, anyway, chyvan is right. You don't make your case in the request for appeal. You make your case during the appeal itself.

So how do I go about appealing the decision? My hearing is in 2 days. The reasons the employer gave are bogus, she said I ordered 2 items worth $18 that she never gave approval for. I asked her before if I could order an item and she said it was fine as long as I paid it back. I did. She said she didn't see where. I don't have access to the records anymore to prove where I did but I did. She orders personal items on the business credit card all the time and never pays it back. Just before this incident I questioned her about if we needed an 'Hello Kitty" backpack. She bought it and all school supplies for her step-child on the business credit card. Never paid it back. Never paid back any of the items she had me order for her home use. I also questioned her on a missing cash receipt from the book. The whole receipt had been torn out. She said that a client came in and paid cash. She didn't have any cash so she just took the cash, gave the receipt to the customer and tore the duplicated out of the book. Is this legal or ethical? I never had a job description, the person she hired to replace me came in for an interview and the place where she worked said she gave a 2 weeks notice which ended her employment on the week I was fired. She started in my old job that next week.

You send back the appropriate form, which should have been included with the denial letter, having written on it "I wish to appeal this decision". It's not rocket science.

You give the reasons you wish to appeal AT THE HEARING.

I did that. I also got a copy of what the employer submitted for their reasons for denial. I have prepared my response to the 3 items they are claiming. What are some reasons that I can give to help get the decision reversed? No policies? No formal job description. The things she listed we have done in the past with no problems. She is claiming mis-use of business credit card. But no charges because of the amount involved and one was free and the others I paid back although she never asked me to show her where. She interviewed and hired a replacement who gave 2 weeks notice to her place of employment that ended the week she let me go? She started that next week. Incidentally, she had worked with my replacement before and is the Chairman of the Board of Directors where my replacement worked and to whom she gave her notice to.

There are a number of guides as to UC issues in your state ..look the up and make copies to help you ..also the steps to appeal..you must follow them ...

things like gross misconduct and violation of instructions are good reasons to get fired fo cause ...but lack of trust is not on the list.

Employer bears burden of showing why you fired for the reasons they claimed ..not a new set of reasons , on appeal you need to focus on same .


I think to have interviewed a friend prior to letting you go sure clouds the reasons to let you go and hire friend ...but it's your job to develop the point ..with care

nothing you posted strikes me as misconduct or theft of office stuff ..and it's hard to violate a direction never given .....but my vote doesn't count.

Her personal conduct as to CC matters is not relevant ...don't go there...

Thanks.

No, you do not need to read through a whole lot of things about unemployment law in your state and quote the definitions of misconduct and good cause and such. Most people find this very intimidating and confusing. They will not want you to quote the state's laws or cite statutes to them. Nor do you go through each point and refute it brilliantly, citing case law. Believe me, they know the relevant laws and how to apply them. You don't try to tell them. This is not a court case. This is an agency hearing. They are set up to be simple enough that both the employer and the claimant can self represent without disadvantage. They just want you to come in and tell them what happened.

What they are trying to determine is this and this alone. Did your employer have a valid misconduct reason to terminate you? More specifically had they given you information that your job performance was not adequate, was not pleasing to them, that you were in danger of losing it, did you have any indications that your job was in jeopardy, and were you given any opportunity to change your undesirable behavior and keep the job?

And as it has been pointed out, the employer must show this. Since they elected to fire you, the burden of proof that they had this valid misconduct clear cut specific you were aware of it reason to terminate you is upon them. That they just didn't like your general overall attitude, or maybe you'd called them out on something they had done, or maybe her good buddy from the past just plain old wanted your job and she wanted rid of you, that does not amount to a clear cut valid MISCONDUCT reason to terminate you.

What they want to know is, what were you told on the last day you worked there? What did the employer say is the reason why you were terminated? Did you do what they say you did? If so, why? Did you know this was against the rules? Did you do something that was clearly wrong to do (such as using the company credit card to get personal things that they didn't know about and you didn't reimburse them) If that is the misconduct reason they say you were terminated, you need to make it very plain that you had done this several times without repercussions, you had always reimbursed the company, and that you had seen others in the company, including your boss do this and therefore had no reason to know that doing it this time would not be acceptable behavior.

Had you had any write ups or disciplinary actions against you? Did your boss ever tell you, if you do this or if you do not do this, you'll be fired? Or did they ever say, "We want you to stop doing xxxxx." Was there any policy you were aware of that forbade you from doing the ordering of something on the credit card and then reimbursing them? Had you seen everyone else doing this? Was there any indication that your performance was not up to standard? Had you been given satisfactory reviews before in your time with this company?

Memorize and repeat as many times as possible in the hearing that you always did your job to the best of your ability, that you did not want to lose your job, that you had no idea the boss was dissatisfied with your work and that if you had known you would have done whatever you could do to make sure that you changed your behavior, because YOU ALWAYS DID YOUR JOB TO THE VERY BEST OF YOUR ABILITIES.

The hearing will follow a prescribed format. If in person, both parties will be sworn in. The appeals officer, judge, whatever they choose to call it, will set up the ground rules and will inform both parties that the hearing is being taped. The first one side of the picture, either you or the claimant will speak and tell your side of the situation. It will probably be you, since you will be the appealing party.

You will begin by telling them something like how long you had worked for xxx company, and what happened on the day that you were called in and were told you were no longer employed there. Be very specific about what you were told that day. Address all the three issues at this time. DO NOT go into what an unethical or immoral or unfair person your boss was. Likewise, do not bring in other things like how last December, she gave you a warning for being ten minutes late. Keep everything totally related to the claims material and the basic reasons the claims material says you were terminated. Stress that until the day of your termination, you had no idea it was in the works. Stress that you had up to this point received no warnings or disciplinary actions and you had no idea that your job was in jeopardy. Mention that you were aware that the new person had been interviewed, though you were unaware that she was going to be given your job and that she was designed to be your replacement. Say again how you always did your job to the best of your abilities.

Then the employer will speak and try to prove to the hearing officer that they did have a valid misconduct reason to terminate you, that you knew that your actions were unacceptable and that you did them anyway, and that you had been given plenty of warnings and opportunities to change your behavior and keep your job.

Dress very professionally, act very professionally, do not take food or drinks in with you to the hearing. Do not write down anything more than perhaps a few talking points on your hands. Remember, it is a hearing, NOT a reading, and you do not want to go in there and make a speech. You are just speaking naturally. Practice what you are going to say before you go in. Listen very carefully to the appeals judge and answer any questions they ask you very carefully.

Do not wander off topic. Do not bring up other issues they have not mentioned related to your employment there or to your home life or personal circumstances. Forget telling them about crooked business practices that your employer was engaged in. Be brief, be professional, get your points across, and then wait for the opportunity to ask questions. Always keep quiet while your other party speaks. Even if they get up and tell horrible lies, DO NOT chime in, gasp, object, or scream out, "You lie!" at them. The appeals referee will determine which of you is considered the more believable of the two parties.

You will be informed of the decision a few days after the hearing. Keep making your weekly certifications during this time. If you are denied, your next appeal will be to the board of review. If you are approved, you will be back paid for all weeks you have certified for since you filed your claim.