Cited for Shoplifting at a Hospital After a Seizure at the Store

My question involves criminal law for the state of: California

I was citied for shoplifting while i was having a seizure or just after one... I was detained and don't remember a lot about this but after the incident I was given a citation at the hospital for shop lifting.... the officer wrote a citation for shoplifting and then took my drivers license noting that i was disoriented, confused and not making sense. my wife came to the hospital and i was released to her with the doctor (According to my wife) asking if I had these before and if I would be safe? she said yes and he also noted that i was not giving correct answers to questions and seemed dazed disoriented and didn't know where I was..

To this day i remember going to the store or THAT I HAD BEEN THERE AND GONE... I remember my wife coming to the hospital (kind of but not 100%) I remember lots of people being around and for whatever reason someone kept asking for car keys and wanting to drive my car.... Now just prior to all of this i had been scheduled for a spine operation and was and had been in a lot of pain. I go to the VA and just the week prior i was given meds to help relax the muscle in the back and spine. I have been diagnosed with Partial complex temporal lobe seizures about 8? years ago and had several seizures before the VA doctors got a handle on hat was occurring.. I know they wanted to operate on a part of the brain to stop or end the seizures but it was something like a 50/50 chance of loosing all memory.. Or something in that area... I don't want to because to this date after a major seizure some years ago i don't remember the early part of my life at all... Anyway with this situation when i went to the first hearing i tried to let the judge now but he would not hear anything and assigned me to a public defender,,,

The public defender has told me the judge will probably not even entertain any of my situation and said he would try to get a plea!!! any way in the meantime i go to the VA and mentioned what had happened and why did my meds fail ??? what i was told is the meds i had been given to help the pain along with the fact the doctor had switched my seizure meds to a generic type. this is what the Neurologist put in a letter for me to give to the judge that a combination of med change, stress, and the additional meds triggered the seizure, in fact now latter according to people that were around me I had several of them over a 3 day period leading up to this...

Showing the Public defender the letter from the VA doctor he said "I doubt if the Judge will even look at this, and even if he does he will give a stiff fine or probation or something" Now i don't remember it all only small bits and parts,,, but the officer that cited me tool the drivers license because i was disoriented and not making sense... The VA now has my meds back on track and said i will probably go on with life and without seizures. The VA is also monitoring me more now and once I get the spinal operation will re evaluate the seizure situation... In the mean time what can I tell the Judge? and as the Public defender said, The judge will probably ignore any of your story}}}}

I feel a little bit ashamed, and a lot violated as I don't remember any of what happened in the store except people, and some one or several people want my car keys?? to move it? or drive it or something and yes they claim i had things in my pocket and paid for others but really can tell you if I did or didn't or what any one said to me.. I remember the hospital , but thought I went there! to top it all off I live in Texas, and was just visiting and now I have to stay until all this is over (I go back end of September) I don't want to get the spine operation in Ca, I want to go back to the VA in TX where they know more about all of this...What should I do? BTW Texas is giving me back the Drivers LIc.. as the VA told them it was Medication mix up and the State will accept that as i had not had any seizures for several years... I hope i did not make this to confusing!

When you and your lawyer reviewed the incident report from the shoplifting charge, what did you learn about what happened?

What does your prior record look like?

Yes, I'm very confused here. You give us a lot of detail about your medical issues, but how/when/why did the shoplifting come into it? Were you shoplifting, detained, and then, while detained, suffer a seizure causing you to not remember anything that led up to the seizure?

My History is not that good, past 7 to 9 years no problems. I do have some earlier on petty thefts that the neurologists feels like could have been during a seizure (before they were diagnosed) because of how or what occurred. My problem is i don't or cant help myself as i have memory gaps, don't remember and basically say "If that is what you tell me I did, I guess it must be so" the Psychiatrist says during a seizure I could do simple things like put something in the pocket, but complex situations cannot be processed. This is why they say i am confused or don't answer questions accurate. or remember something such as where am I.. (It is that area of the brain.)
Now report.. the citation itself only says cited for shoplifting, does not say what.. according to the attorney he says the store states I took some kind of computer device, and it says that they recovered another device from my vehicle. I don't remember if he said the store recovered it or the Officer recovered it.. My Doctor thinks it odd that in talking to him, he says that i made a comment about people wanting my keys, to drive my car? or move it? From the citation the attorney asked me if I signed the ticket, and I didn't remember, but when he asked me and he asked my wife about the signature, neither of us recognize it as mine! it just looks like a scribble.. I myself don't remember a police officer, but the attorney says one did show up to cite me. LAST is a day or two latter when they went and got my vehicle, my wife says they found items in a bag and credit card receipts for items purchased. the amount around 3 or 4 hundred dollars. I do not remember that, and to this day cannot explain how they got their. My wife says she was talking to me on the phone and telling me what to get and what to tell the sales person i needed. She to thought it was odd that that I could not remember specifically why I went to the store,,,, but was busy and just told me what to get where to get it ,,, and what to ask the salesman for... she said it was about 45 minutes to an hour latter she got a call from someone saying i had been taken to hospital and was told about the shop lifting.. my wife says the letter from the VA doctor says that during a seizure a person and I specifically, would not act with intent but instead follows simple direction.. (Not sure what he means) Also my wife just told me when she got to the hospital the Doctor said when I came in I told them I was in Texas, reported the wrong year, didn't know why I was there and that I drove myself there. He told her each time he came into the room I asked "who are you" and I told him "i was waiting for my Doctor". The Doctor also said no one had looked at my Medical alert which describes the Seizures, not even the ambulance driver.

Summary wife says what was in the car was what she told me to tell the sales person to get. I just don't remember it and or how it got to the car when according to my wife, i was held inside the building. the Public defender just says the judge is not going to take the time to look at all of this ... the only other thing is a separate sheet from the Police officer saying he took the license because "I was in an altered state, in coherent, and had difficulty explaining where i was or why. Handwritten on the form....My wife says the signature on the citation is not mine! oh yes my wife says the hospital said the keys were given to them from the officer along with wallet and medical alert that was never mentioned until after I got to the hospital...

- - - Updated - - -

If i knew the answer it would be great, I know what my wife tells me and what the Doctor says, I do not remember what happened, only where I was that night, the hospital! The Psychiatrist and the Neurologist tell me the seizure was occurring during this time and may possibly been accelerated during it by pain, medication, series of questions demanding answers. They don't even give me a specific, only that they both agree it was a seizure brought on by medications at the time. One of the Doctors say it matches a clinically observed seizure some years back when they first started to diagnose my problems. The reason for the tests were 8 years ago family and friends stated I would wander off, be somewhere and later deny it, argue that i knew exactly was happening but could not account for hours of the day. would walk off with something or take something someplace else then argue I did not... The clinical test videoed this behavior and recorded brain waves showing the disruption... all of this I have seen, but if you want to know how I feel?> I feel like shit, I don't believe it, I don't want to !!! I don't like having someone tell me something I don't remember! It sucks and I cannot explain it. It is very hard to sit down and try to remember what someone else says you did and yet it is not in your own mind! It is hell to think am I going crazy, why can't I remember! It is hell to have someone show you a picture of my mom and not have a memory of her! In your head i see the picture and know I have been told it is my mom but have no feeling or anything of what she was like,,, Just a Picture"""" It is hell to know just like what i write here I can do so but not have a memory inside of it all!!!! only what I am told or shown or hear from someone else! and have no choice but to accept!!! There is nothing worse than having a friend tell you they watched you have a seizure and what I did during it, but have no recall of it,,, Do you believe them? fight with them? argue it does or did not happen? tell them they are not your friend because you believe they are making it up! You ask your doctors are you crazy? what is going on and only one reply comes to mind!! that to stop this they want to take a part of my brain away with no guarantee i will remember anything latter! SO to answer your question, NO! i am the one confused, i can only tell what i read or am told, and as long as I am not in a seizure I can do it as precise as the info I am given!!!! WITHIUT ANY INPUT FROM SOMEONE OR SOME WRITING, IN MY MIND IT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!!..
I can report, when the Doctor says something like " based on what you have said and your known medical condition, it is more likely than not you were in a seizure and it was escalating!!!! """ What the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! why cant i see that???????????????? and I am told, like always, it is a absence seizure!!!! yet i am there, so how can i be absent???? I fight it every day and I hate it...then to make it worse i am told have the beginning stages of Dementia, Alzheimer's !!! or have started showing it!!!

- - - Updated - - -

To me the critical issues may be did you know what you were doing about the time of the suspected shoplifting .....not whether you were disoriented after the event .

Given a rather complex medical history there may indeed be questions as to your state of mind .....and if your PD isn't supportive of the issues you face you may need to spring for paid defense counsel.

My friend just asked me these questions and said to post it. Q did you walk into the store to steal A. NO Q: Did you intend to steal the items once inside? A; no i don't even know what items i took as I have not been told that yet. Q; could you have purchased the items you took? A; i guess so, i had credit cards, and cash, but i don't know what i took so i don't know how much it would have been. Q: did you intend or plan to steal? A: No never even thought about it! Q: How did the paid for item get to your car? A: no idea Q: who asked for or got your car keys? A; no Idea Q: who went to your car? or did they? A: no clue i don't know and don't think i would have given anybody the keys to my car..
Q: do you wear a Medical Alert A: yes Q: what does it say? A: it tells about my seizures, it is a chip to plug into a computer and the VA keeps it up dated.

Self-serving claims that somebody caught shoplifting did not intend to steal are a dime a dozen. When somebody also has a history of shoplifting that they also hope, after-the-fact, to attribute to a medical condition, the prosecutor is even less likely to deem the claims to be credible.

You can consult medical professionals and psychiatrists to try to document that you were not mentally competent at the time of the incident, and thus should not be held criminally responsible. You can relate the supporting medical opinions to your lawyer and he can attempt to use them to convince the prosecutor to drop the charge, or as part of a defense based upon your claimed lack of criminal responsibility.

On very, very rare occasions, but a couple of times over the years, I've dealt with individuals suffering from some kind of impairment (non-alcohol or drug related) in a retail setting. It was IMMEDIATELY clear to me and to everyone else that we were dealing with a medical emergency or a case of dementia, or whatever, and not a "shoplifter." Similarly, it is usually quite clear to a police officer who stops a vehicle for driving erratically that they are dealing with a medical problem and not a case of OVI if that is indeed the case.

Actually, come to think of it, only one of those instances was what appeared to be a "shoplifting," when an elderly and obviously very confused man wheeled a cart of merchandise out the door. As I stopped him, not only did I immediately realize what was going on, but his wife also came running up yelling to him "what are you doing?" and telling me that he didn't mean to wheel the cart out the door - which of course I understood and believed. In the case of a woman suffering a seizure, she was so out of it that I don't think she could have picked up and carried merchandise if she wanted to - although she did clutch her baby to her and wouldn't let go of her. Either way, if it had been merchandise she was clutching, it was quite obvious to me - and couldn't be believably acted - that she was totally "out of it" and needed medical attention ASAP.


I'm having a real hard time believing you, and I think that you are "test-driving" this defense with us before you try it in a court room.

It IS possible (although not probable) that some real medical problem is at the heart of the matter here - and if that's the case, you'd better have a doctor who found a brain tumor or something similar in you ready to testify at trial that such tumor or condition absolutely can cause one to seemingly shoplift while not appearing to be impaired by a medical condition at the time of the event. Absent some testimony like that - I don't think you have a prayer of beating this.

Yes i do have a letter from two neurologist at the VA and a Psychiatrist stating prior test and episodes and their medical opinion. since my public defender did not want to relay them on I am going to try and do so myself. The Neurologist and my doctor wrote they believe it was brought on by the introduction of new prescriptions and pain from t1 t2 disk in the spine. That is what they wrote. as far as testing this out, I can understand your reluctance to believe. I am not trying to fool anyone, in fact I don't believe it happened, but i have the citation so i am forced to believe something happened. Have you ever had to try and explain anything in you life that you absolutely can not recall? but everyone around you says they saw you or doesn't want to believe you? It is not a good feeling! one thing my doctor showed me is this "A non-convulsive seizure with altered awareness and automatic behavior is called a complex
partial seizure, or a psychomotor or temporal lobe seizure. A major problem in the public handling of complex partial seizures, the most common type of seizure, is recognition of the symptoms. The unusual behavior associated with complex partial seizures is often misinterpreted as stemming from intoxication or mental illness. It is this type of seizure that is also associated with symptoms that may be erroneously perceived as aggression. Lack of public understanding has resulted in people with complex partial seizures being unfairly arrested (and sometimes seriously injured in the process) and prosecuted based on perceived intoxication, violence, disorderly conduct or indecent exposure – all because of involuntary
actions produced by seizures.perceived intoxication, violence, disorderly conduct or indecent exposure – all because of involuntary actions produced by seizures.
If you really want to know about them then look at the ADA report https://www.epilepsy.com/sites/core/...12.%202014.pdf...... My biggest question in all of this is Did I have the intention? I don't think so, as I must have made a purchase of about four hundred dollars, it was in the vehicle along with receipt,,, so I had the money. I don't remember the purchase, but according to my wife it was made in the same time period within this incident. And she keeps wondering who put it in the vehicle? the store personal, or the officer? doesn't really make any difference except she keeps wondering who was in the vehicle and when???
Anyway sorry to take your time, and thanks for the response, but until you have something like this yourself, I don't think anyone could or would even come close to understanding the frustration! and The self doubt a person has from not being able to answer questions and not know what really happened. the attorney did say the report said I made the purchase and was stopped leaving he said it also stated I was asked how I got there and couldn't answer////// anyway again thanks for your ear! I probably wont win but as they say "That's life!" I cant defend what i cannot remember!

You have this awful seizure disorder and yet curiously, you still hold a drivers license and you still drive. Interesting.