Autism as a Defense to Charges From a Bar Fight

Situation: FL. Two young men in a bar. One 25 yrs. and the other 18 yrs. and autistic. The older male starts a fight with a group of drunks after they poke fun at the autistic male. During the scuffle, one of the drunks injures the autistic male with several punches. In retaliation, the autistic male delivers a punch, knocking one of the drunks down to the ground and into a coma.

1. Typically, who would be charged with what crimes?

2. Regarding the autistic young man's charge(s), would his attorney and his clients (the young man's parents) have the option between 1) fighting the charge as self defense or 2) using his autism condition to avoid prosecution. What different options would he have?

3. Would a court-ordered therapist intervene? If so, how much influence would his opinion have? Is there ever situation where the therapist would have final say? Toward the end of the film 'Rain Man,' a court-ordered therapist is used, apparently, to determine the best home for Raymond (Dustin Hoffman). In this case, how much influence does the therapist have? I would really like to know if there is ever a case when the therapist has final say.

Thank you.

Alex

1. Everybody who threatens another can be charged with assault. Those who strike another can be charged with battery.

2. Mutual brawling is NOT self defense. Autism is a term used to describe a wide spectrum of conditions, but unless the defendant is so profoundly afflicted as to not knowing that beating other people is wrong, he's not going to prevail.

3. Movies are not reality. A court ordered examination might be used to help inform the court of the condition of the accused, they don't make decisions.

What is an 18-year-old doing in a bar???

1. Presumably every participant in the fight could be charged with battery or similar offenses.

2. The 18 yea-old defendant is the client of the lawyer; the parents, though they may be paying for the defense, are not the lawyer’s clients. This is important to remember because the lawyer’s various duties under the rules of professional conduct run mostly to his client. Thus, it will be the 18-year old defendant with whom the lawyer discusses the defense and the options they have. The lawyer should not discuss those details with the parents. In general autism would not be a good defense to this unless the autism was so severe that it made him legally insane. Depending on the exact facts, perhaps the defendant might be able to raise a self-defense argument here.

3. A therapist may provide expert testimony as to the effect of the young man’s autism. But the expert doesn’t have any say, let alone the final say, as to what happens with respect the criminal charges against him. That’s up to the judge and the jury to decide.

Quote:

---

Quoting ABuck

---

2. Regarding the autistic young man's charge(s), would his attorney and his clients (the young man's parents) have the option between 1) fighting the charge as self defense or 2) using his autism condition to avoid prosecution. What different options would he have?

---

The defendant's lawyer could petition for a forensic psychiatric evaluation to determine competence to stand trial (whether the defendant understands the proceedings and can meaningfully participate in his defense), criminal responsibility (whether or not the defendant's psychiatric condition rises to the level that he cannot be held criminally responsible for the events -- essentially, whether he was able to distinguish right from wrong, or whether his condition left him wholly unable to control his actions), or both. However, I doubt that there's much ambiguity on the issue. It might be possible to use the defendant's psychiatric condition to advance an argument for self-defense, depending on the full facts and the opinion of the mental health professionals involved in the case.

Quote:

---

Quoting Taxing Matters

---

2. The 18 yea-old defendant is the client of the lawyer; the parents, though they may be paying for the defense, are not the lawyer’s clients. This is important to remember because the lawyer’s various duties under the rules of professional conduct run mostly to his client. Thus, it will be the 18-year old defendant with whom the lawyer discusses the defense and the options they have. The lawyer should not discuss those details with the parents. In general autism would not be a good defense to this unless the autism was so severe that it made him legally insane. Depending on the exact facts, perhaps the defendant might be able to raise a self-defense argument here.

---

Thank you, Taxing Matters. This is helpful. Interesting how, although the young man is living at home he is 18, the case cannot be discussed between the attorney and parents.

One more question, if you don't mind: If the autistic male is unable to speak (He hasn't spoke since the age of 3), due to his condition, how would this affect his case of self defense? I understand that it would hurt his chances, but what exactly would happen? The trial would go on without his testimony?

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Quoting Mr. Knowitall

---

The defendant's lawyer could petition for a forensic psychiatric evaluation to determine competence to stand trial (whether the defendant understands the proceedings and can meaningfully participate in his defense), criminal responsibility (whether or not the defendant's psychiatric condition rises to the level that he cannot be held criminally responsible for the events -- essentially, whether he was able to distinguish right from wrong, or whether his condition left him wholly unable to control his actions), or both. However, I doubt that there's much ambiguity on the issue. It might be possible to use the defendant's psychiatric condition to advance an argument for self-defense, depending on the full facts and the opinion of the mental health professionals involved in the case.

---

Thank you, Mr. knowitall. Also very helpful.