Visitation Without Paternity

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Oregon

You didn't actually ask a question, but... unless and until paternity is established, any visitation by the putative father would be at the discretion of the mother. Whether and how much visitation should be allowed, and under what circumstances? That will depend on the facts of the individual case.

Sorry. It posted before I was done.

Long and short of it:
I have a 5 month old son. Father wasn't really around for pregnancy. Had contact for less than 10% of a 39 week pregnancy and that was abusive. He walked away July of last year and decided to express interest a month ago.
He refuses to take a paternity test, sign an affidavit saying he is my son's father but has no problem acknowledging the fact in written correspondence. My lawyer has advised me of the following:
1) I cannot legally withhold visitation even though he is not legally the father.
2) that he abandoned us months ago and has expressed no interest until now means nothing to the courts
3) that he was abusive to me and has an admitted drug and alcohol problem means nothing.

Is any of this accurate?

I am trying to foster a relationship with no custody order in place at her advisement and out of 5 different times he has been offered since 2-28 he's made it to one. Is this going to looK poorly upon me? Will this look bad upon him in court or show an active lack of interest?

I am proposing 2x a week from 4-6pm and Saturdays from 9-11am. Is this unreasonable for parenting time? Is there a norm schedule for a 5 month old infant?

Any advice or suggestions would be helpful.

You should get a second opinion, ASAP. And I do mean ASAP. According to the relevant Oregon statutes I've read, you have been given some very bad advice. Maybe someone else here can dig up some case law in support of your lawyer's position, but I haven't found anything.

Paternity hasn't been established and court orders have not been issued. At this point "dad" has no legal right to see the child because he's a legal stranger. This is the common default position. "Dad" isn't dad until paternity has been legally established and acknowledged by the court. Then, and only then, will he be assigned the rights (parenting time) and responsibilities (child support) of parenthood.

Run, don't walk, to another lawyer's office. Many will give a free consultation.

Here's a good place to start for information. begin reading on page 14.

I agree...I have no idea where that attorney was coming from but number one wasn't remotely valid. I agree that a court would give him visitation (once paternity is established) despite having "abandoned" you for months, and I think the drug, alcohol and abusive issues depend on facts not currently present.

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Quoting llworking

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I agree...I have no idea where that attorney was coming from but number one wasn't remotely valid. I agree that a court would give him visitation (once paternity is established) despite having "abandoned" you for months, and I think the drug, alcohol and abusive issues depend on facts not currently present.

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Just for clarification, THIS. I was also speaking to number one on your list and agree with LLW on the rest.

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Quoting Shannon Kauffman

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1) I cannot legally withhold visitation even though he is not legally the father.

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Did he actually say "cannot", or did he say "should not"? If dad is asking for a reasonable amount of access, and there's absolutely no question but that he's the father, your lawyer may be concerned about how your denial of access is going to come across in court.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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Did he actually say "cannot", or did he say "should not"? If dad is asking for a reasonable amount of access, and there's absolutely no question but that he's the father, your lawyer may be concerned about how your denial of access is going to come across in court.

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That can be valid, but since dad absolutely does not want to establish paternity (presumably because he does not want to be held responsible for child support) I think that forcing him to step up to the plate all the way is probably wise.

I doubt that it would look bad in court if paternity was just being established.

The matter is in court, dad has acknowledged his paternity informally and dad is requesting visitation. I see no reason to believe that dad's past reluctance to formalize his paternity has any relevance to the present dispute.

If in fact dad is going to court and arguing that he should not be ordered to take a DNA test, or is in contempt of a court order that he take a DNA test, mom will be in a much better position to argue that a denial of contact was not unreasonable.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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The matter is in court, dad has acknowledged his paternity informally and dad is requesting visitation. I see no reason to believe that dad's past reluctance to formalize his paternity has any relevance to the present dispute.

If in fact dad is going to court and arguing that he should not be ordered to take a DNA test, or is in contempt of a court order that he take a DNA test, mom will be in a much better position to argue that a denial of contact was not unreasonable.

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You might want to go back and re-read the original post again. I do not believe that anything is in court at this point.

He has been served with custody papers because my lawyer advised me that because he and I both have informally acknowledged my son as "ours", he could take my son and there is little the police could do to get him back as the acknowledgement exists albeit informal.

Before he was served, I was applying for child support services through DHS because my son is on OHP and I can not, as a single mother, afford all the filing fees it is going to take to establish paternity and child support. Not to mention, I don't have the same kind of access as lawyers or the state to financials. Anyhow... once I filed paperwork for custody, I had to suspend that case (only one litigation apparently can happen at a time). He knows I suspended the case, agreed to it and then refused to sign an affidavit based on the premise that he "believes it's in our son's best interest" to reestablish the child support case. I offered to pay for a DNA test (that's what DHS is going to want anyhow) and he refused that too. He didn't flat out say no... he just refused to acknowledge that I offered to pay. And refused to give any reason as to why he's not cooperating.

Now... I'm giving him multiple chances at visitation and am trying to come up with a parenting plan that is reasonable for him to spend time with my son and reasonable so that my son can also maintain a schedule that has been established since.. oh, I dunno, birth and it's turning into a colossal failure. At what point am I starting to try too hard and he is actually just being unwilling to work with anything I come up with?! Keep in mind... this man is self employed and runs his own business as he is his only employee. He can write his schedule to be whatever he wants it to be and he's showing that he's not even willing to re-write his schedule for 2 hours three times a week to be with his son. What do I do here?

I have been trying to get her to get me the forms for a petition for paternity but have had no success.

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Oh and one other thing. My lawyer told me that it is unreasonable to pursue back child support from the date of birth. Is that right?! That seems completely unreasonable.

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She said "cannot"
Define absolutely no question? He has informally acknowledged my son as his. He refuses to go any further than that. In all likelihood probably due to the financial responsibility that comes with parenthood.

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Past reluctance to formalize paternity is documented as of Monday this week. As of March 3rd, I have it documented that he was willing to meet with a notary to sign a voluntary affidavit. Then, Sunday's scheduled parenting time went sideways because he messaged me that he would be arriving after it was scheduled to have been over. I told him we were unavailable. Monday then rolls around and suddenly, he's not wanting to sign the affidavit and wants me to reopen a child support case I had started with DHS back in January but had to suspend as custody papers were filed with the courts.

I really think that you need a different attorney. Things have turned into more of a complicated mess than should have been. You should not have filed the custody paperwork until after paternity and child support had been established through DHS.

Oregon will allow you to seek child support retroactive to the date of birth, but ultimately that's up to the judge.

Again, I really think you need to consult with another attorney - even 2 or 3. Many will provide free consultations.

Either you aren't understanding what your lawyer is saying, or you're being given some (IMO) questionable advice.

Mr. KIA is correct in that courts like parties to work together, but when your lawyer says that legally you cannot withhold visitaion even though paternity hasn't been established by the court, let alone custody or a parenting plan, and is essentially stating that you and "dad" are on equal footing? That doesn't seem correct to me. If you and dad had been married, that's a different story.

Please, go get a couple of consultations. Do NOT go in and ask if your attorney is correct. Go in and ask what his rights are as things presently stand.

My daughter is almost 7 her father started paying child support 3 years ago but we have no custody agreement I let her go when he asks for her but my question is if I let her go to finish the remainder of the school year which is 2 months can he get me for abandonment or try to get custody of her?

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Quoting Kristin meche

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My daughter is almost 7 her father started paying child support 3 years ago but we have no custody agreement I let her go when he asks for her but my question is if I let her go to finish the remainder of the school year which is 2 months can he get me for abandonment or try to get custody of her?

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Please start your own thread, and tell us the name of your state.