Pulled Over by an Off-Duty Officer for Running a Red Light

My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: baltimore city maryland

Ok i was traveling in baltimore city on my way home from work. I was at a stop light, watching the other signal to turn red. I jumped the gun and went right thru a red light. Immediately i have lights behind me so i pulled over right away. A gentleman comes to my window in plain clothes, pulling me over in a unmarked suv, and asked me for my license and registration. I was alittle skeptical because i was in a industrial area. I asked if he had id. He shows me a laminated card that said baltimore city police, no badge. I asked for a supervisor to respond because things didnt seem right to me. The gentleman started asking me questions like where was i coming from, have i been drinking etc etc. I just stated i want a supervisor asap or just let me be on my way.

Im pretty sure this irritated him pretty good, because he went back to his suv, after telling me to stay where i was.

About 5 min later 4 marked units pulled up sirens blaring and all. At this point i thaught it would be wise to start recording the incident. adter about 5 more minutes a uniformed officer came to my window and asked for my license and registration. I handed this to him with my window only open about 2 inches, and stated i have nothing to say, and if he has any questions that i want "my" lawyer present. The officer went to the rear of my vehicle.

About 20 minutes went by, 3 of the marked units left, and i was waiting when the uniformed officer came back to my window. He told me to roll my window down all of the way, which i politely refused. The uniformed officer chucked my id and regustration through my window, and issued me a citation for the red light. I ask the officer who is issuing the citation, and he stated he was. (Not the off duty plain clothes officer) i asked for his name and badge number along with his partner. After giving me the runaround he finally tells me is and the partners name and badge numbers. I repeated the info back loud enough for the recording. I also asked for the off duty officers info, and voiced it back. I also asked if the officer was off duty, and what district he was from. I fter i received my copy of the citation, i was told i was free to go, so i left. in addition, no supervisor responded.

So my questions are
1. Why didnt the off duty officer issue me the ticket?
2. When asked arent officers supposed to give there name and badge if it isnt on the ticket?
3. is the ticket for running a red light valid, if an officer that didnt even witness the violation issues me the ticket?

Im sorry this is so long guys/girls. I hope i can get some answers. Thank you in advance.

It does not matter. You are guilty and you were caught. When you questioned his ID, you received the Red and Blue treatment you asked for. He is likely a detective and the Traffic Supervisor has no authority over him. Frankly, it is people like you, who make law enforcement officers testy and unlikely to give people a break. You decided to be a jerk, got what you asked for in law enforcement response, then tried to video it and make it into a police harassment issue.

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Quoting railslave

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So my questions are
1. Why didnt the off duty officer issue me the ticket?

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What makes you think he was "off duty?" As mentioned, he may have been a detective, a supervisor, or even a manager (i.e. a lieutenant or higher) and not working a uniformed patrol assignment. Most "off duty" officers don't have personal cars with emergency lights in them.

So, he may not have issued the cite himself because he didn't have a cite book, he figured he needed to chill after your 'tude, or any one of a number of other reasons.

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2. When asked arent officers supposed to give there name and badge if it isnt on the ticket?

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Didn't you get this info?

They don't have to drop what they are doing and give you that info, no. Such side questions are also common distraction techniques employed by some criminals to try an distract an officer and change his focus or put him on the defensive, thus letting down his guard. An experienced officer shouldn't play that game.

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3. is the ticket for running a red light valid, if an officer that didnt even witness the violation issues me the ticket?

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The issuing officer may not necessarily be the "arresting" officer. if you take the matter to trial and the issuing officer appears and tries to say HE saw the violation, you can object and point out that it was another officer who did. I suspect, however, that the other officer will appear in court to testify as to what he observed.

You're lucky the officer did not direct you to step out of the car - something he can do, and you would have to comply. The window thing can be annoying and the way to get around that is to bring the driver out of the car and back to yours. The fact that the officer did not play that card shows that he was rather patient with you.

And while I can understand some measure of reticence regarding a stop by an unmarked vehicle, it WAS (I presume) in a very public place. But, if polices are the same there as they tend to be here, the non-uniformed officer should understand the request and have a marked unit respond. Which, he did. You do not necessarily get to have a supervisor, respond, however. You are certainly free to go to the station and talk to one.

Even if he was off duty it doesn't invalidate the citation. I used to hang out with an Baltimore (admittedly Baltimore County) police officer. Seen him write tickets "off the clock" a few times. Sometimes he's in uniform, sometimes not.

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Quoting flyingron

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Even if he was off duty it doesn't invalidate the citation. I used to hang out with an Baltimore (admittedly Baltimore County) police officer. Seen him write tickets "off the clock" a few times. Sometimes he's in uniform, sometimes not.

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For safety reasons, it's not too good an idea to conduct stops or make contacts when one is OFF duty as you tend to NOT have nifty little things like a vest, a radio, a Taser, handcuffs, etc. When we are off duty we may have a badge and a gun, but, that's about it. Most agencies discourage this or forbid it except in very limited cases, even if the law allows it. I can't speak for Baltimore, but, if this is commonplace for OFF duty officers, I have to scratch my head as to the "why" of it.

Off duty he still has his vehicle here and presumably all that stuff. The officer in the poster's question appeared to be driving an unmarked unit as it had lights.

go to court,, see if that cop who pulled you over to start with shows up, that's what I would do

Sounds like you're a prick but you do need some advise.

When you go to court, the officer that issued you the citation must be present as well as the officer in the unmarked vehicle.

If for some reason only the officer that wrote the citation is present, move for a dismissal under the grounds of hearsay.

Yes whosthatguy, i am a prick. No denying that. And no changing that either. But i do appreciate the advice givin. As i always live to realize, there is always a bigger prick then i. I kept the story pretty short considering, but i promise you the off duty takes the prick cake in this who incedent.

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Quoting Who'sThatGuy

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If for some reason only the officer that wrote the citation is present, move for a dismissal under the grounds of hearsay.

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Although if you confessed to the ticketing officer that you ran the light, the officer's recitation of that confession would not be hearsay.