When to File Form TR002 in Traffic Court

My question involves traffic court in the State of: CA

Hello. Should a person fill and send TR002 form (Written Not Guilty Plea/Request For Trial By Written Declaration) to court if he already has form TR-205 in hands (e.g. downloaded from the internet). Thanks!

What county are we talking about?

I have no idea what Form TR002 is. Do you have that form and is that the right number? If it's a local form, it could be designed to follow the CRC requirements.

If you've not yet made a request for TBD, do you now what your bail amount is? You need the bail amount, prior to submitting the TR205, either from the Courtesy Notice or by contacting the clerk, or by looking it up. The California Rules of Court procedure is for you to make the request for TBD, for the clerk to set your trial at least 25 day into the future, tell you what the bail amount is, and provide the forms to you.

So, it kind of depends on whether you want to accelerate or delay the process. I like delay, so I'd write the clerk requesting that the CRC procedure be followed, making sure to do this at least 5 days in advance of my due date, after delaying the due date as much as possible.

You may find an example of this form here: http://www.stanct.org/sites/default/...03051610-1.pdf (page 2 of a packet, TR002 is mentioned at the bottom of the page). You may also find references to this form in a number of "TR-205 how-to" guides in internet. I think TR002 is one of possible ways for getting TR-205, I'm just not sure if it's necessary or not.

In my case county is San Francisco, I've a form TR-205 downloaded from their site. I have no idea what the bail amount is, so I'm waiting Courtesy Notice. The deadline is Feb 25, so I'll wait 1 more week and then will make a call. But in general, if I receive Courtesy Notice by a mail in next few days, may I just send TR-205 by mail without calling clerks etc?

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Quoting donzoh1

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I have no idea what Form TR002 is. Do you have that form and is that the right number? If it's a local form, it could be designed to follow the CRC requirements.

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That's why the county is important -- it's not a standard, statewide form. The form that the OP found is from Stanislaus county. I'm not aware of a similarly numbered form for San Francisco.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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That's why the county is important -- it's not a standard, statewide form. The form that the OP found is from Stanislaus county. I'm not aware of a similarly numbered form for San Francisco.

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Did I say the county was not important?

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Quoting donzoh1

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Did I say the county was not important?

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Obviously not, but if you were more familiar with local practice you wouldn't have been so confused.

Guys, thanks for your responses, may I just sent TR-205 (after getting a Courtesy Notice) to the court without making pre-requests and calling any clerks? Thanks.

Assuming you have the bail amount, like from the Courtesy Notice, your TR205 will likely be accepted although you would have skipped a step as outlined in the California Rules of Court. This will mean your case will be resolved more expeditiously.

Could you clarify which rule you're referring to saying "skipped a step as outlined in the California Rules of Court"? Is this a "make the request for TBD" from response #3 in this thread? If yes - what's the form?

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Quoting robert1307

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Could you clarify which rule you're referring to saying "skipped a step as outlined in the California Rules of Court"? Is this a "make the request for TBD" from response #3 in this thread? If yes - what's the form?

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Look at this link http://www.courts.ca.gov/cms/rules/i...nkid=rule4_210 and review the procedure, paying particular attention to the upper and lower case letters that are applied to the phrase Trial By Written Declaration. The bottom line is that your written request for that is distinct from and precedes your actual submission of Form TR205. The step you'd be skipping could shorten your overall time frame by a month or so and require you to submit the bail amount about that much earlier. Most people skip this part because they or in some cases, the court clerks don't actually know the rules here. If you try it the long way, you might well get the "We've never done it that way before" answer so you might refer to the specific CRC 4.210 provision that's relevant.

The link you specified says:
"b.2. If the clerk receives the defendant's written request for a trial by written declaration...", my question is still same: what's the form of this request?
Should I just write "Please, allow me to participate in a "trial by written declaration" process and mail me TR-205 form. Thank you."?
The form TR002 looks like exactly what I'm looking for, may I use it here?

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Found a similar topic (http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134316), guy there tried to get the same basic answer through all his posts lol, this thread can be merged and closed. Thanks everyone.

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Quoting robert1307

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Should a person fill and send TR002 form (Written Not Guilty Plea/Request For Trial By Written Declaration) to court if he already has form TR-205 in hands (e.g. downloaded from the internet)

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Going back to your original question, I would say that you should comply with exactly what is stated in the rule referenced above. The rule requires that in order for you to receive an extension the clerk must receive “the defendant's written request for a trial by written declaration by the appearance date indicated on the Notice to Appear”. Whether you already downloaded form TR-205 or not doesn’t matter.

The other form you referenced (Written Not Guilty Plea/Request for Trial by Written Declaration) is not mentioned in the rule, so any properly worded written request should work, such as the suggested form on Helpigotaticket for example.

Me again. TBD request text from Helpigotaticket contains "Case (ticket) number" field. I'm not able to find this number on the only piece of paper I have so far - "Notice To Appear". There is just a serial number in the upper right corner, which I'm sure is not same as "Case (ticket) number". There is also a field "Incident No" which looks like what I need, but it's empty!

So my question is: how to get a "Case number" for referring from TBD request mail?

The case number is traffic cases is usually the citation number, which I'm betting is the serial number you are referring to. Which agency issued the citation?

San Francisco Police Department.
Saying "Citation" - do you mean "Notice to Appear"?

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Quoting free9man

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The case number is traffic cases is usually the citation number, which I'm betting is the serial number you are referring to. Which agency issued the citation?

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In California, the case number is assigned by the court and is different than the citation number printed on the citation.

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Form TR002 has no application here as it's from a different county. It does however provide an interesting example of a local court that apparently doesn't want to follow the MANDATORY provisions of the California Rules of Court relating to TBWD.

Therefore, the legally correct thing to do is follow CRC as outlined on helpigotaticket.com or specifically within the rules themselves. Who knows whether your local court wants to follow them or not.

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In California, the case number is assigned by the court and is different than the citation number printed on the citation.

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Where should I get case number from? All I have in hands is a "Notice to appear". I can't make a written request for TBD without case number.
I think the purpose of TBD is not going to court at all, but I have to go to court to get a case number anyway, otherwise I can't initiate TBD process...

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Quoting robert1307

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Where should I get case number from? All I have in hands is a "Notice to appear". I can't make a written request for TBD without case number.
I think the purpose of TBD is not going to court at all, but I have to go to court to get a case number anyway, otherwise I can't initiate TBD process...

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Question 1. Where did you learn that you can't submit a written request for TBD without a case number?

Question 2. Are you planning to use a form (TR002) from another county and which has no application in your case?

Question 3. Have you reviewed either the California Rules of Court or helpigotaticket.com on the above two questions?

Question 4. What did you find out?

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Question 1. Where did you learn that you can't submit a written request for TBD without a case number?

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From helpigotaticket.com (everyone recommend it here), especially this form - http://www.helpigotaticket.com/forms/TBDrequest.doc.
"Case number" in this form looks reasonable: how clerk (or whoever) may know which case I want to initiate TBD for? You may say they could use my home address, but I might have two or more notices to appear at the same time etc, so case number looks mandatory.

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Question 2. Are you planning to use a form (TR002) from another county and which has no application in your case?

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No, I'm not. After guys here explained me it relates to a different county, the topic name become misleading. I would rather name it "TBD Initiation Process - A Warrior Path".

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Question 3. Have you reviewed either the California Rules of Court or helpigotaticket.com on the above two questions?

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Yes

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Question 4. What did you find out?

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That without "Case number" clerk will not be able to find my bail amount and send all necessary forms back to me.

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Quoting robert1307

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From helpigotaticket.com (everyone recommend it here), especially this form - http://www.helpigotaticket.com/forms/TBDrequest.doc.
"Case number" in this form looks reasonable: how clerk (or whoever) may know which case I want to initiate TBD for? You may say they could use my home address, but I might have two or more notices to appear at the same time etc, so case number looks mandatory.

No, I'm not. After guys here explained me it relates to a different county, the topic name become misleading. I would rather name it "TBD Initiation Process - A Warrior Path".

Yes

That without "Case number" clerk will not be able to find my bail amount and send all necessary forms back to me.

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Although I do sometimes recommend helpigotaticket, I don't agree with everything there. If there's a disagreement with the Rules of Court, I'd go with the Rules of Court. I don't know that you need a form from helpigotaticket although that may work.

Consider the situation in which a person might request TBD before even receiving a Courtesy Notice (and there's nothing to prevent that, legally). The case number would not appear on the original citation, although the citation number and the citing agency name would. Unless the defendant got the case number from the local court website, if that information is available there, there's no way they would know the case number. I think if you review the California Rules of Court on this, there is NO requirement for a case number, although if you have that from whatever source, I'd include it. Furthermore, your county apparently does not have an individual form nor is there a state form for the initial written request for trial by written declaration request (lower case lettering) mentioned in the CRC. If you want to use a form from helpigotaticket, that will probably work and you can write "unknown" in the case number field if there is one. Or, you can check the local court website or the Courtesy Notice, assuming your correct address is on file at DMV, or possibly call the court.

Ok thanks, at last I was able to get a citation number for my case from a website, so I'll just put it into a TBD request letter..

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Quoting robert1307

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Ok thanks, at last I was able to get a citation number for my case from a website, so I'll just put it into a TBD request letter..

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Wasn't the citation number on the citation?

The serial number at the top right corner of a "Notice to appear" given by a police officer was almost same as "Citation number" got from a courts' website (the difference is that "Citation Number" from a website was prefixed with 'C' and suffixed with 'S', all the digits are the same).

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Quoting robert1307

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The serial number at the top right corner of a "Notice to appear" given by a police officer was almost same as "Citation number" got from a courts' website (the difference is that "Citation Number" from a website was prefixed with 'C' and suffixed with 'S', all the digits are the same).

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Maybe the C indicates the court assigned and the S the Agency (Sheriff?) These are just guesses and really don't matter. The point is that if you include your Driver License Number, the Citation Number, the Agency involved, and whatever other information you have, there is nothing to prevent you from submitting a request for trial by written declaration. Just make sure you have the Due Date correct and don't miss any time frames! Cell Phone alarms are good for this.

So far they are playing a game "we haven't received payment and any forms from you". When I'm trying to explain I have not received form back from them (I have a certified mail receipt that they received my request Feb 17 btw) they trying to make me download form by myself from internet. I said I don't have an internet access and WTF is going on? They are redirecting to some voice mail number where I should explain the situation. I did. Awaiting a callback.
I don't like this as my deadline passed 2 days ago.
So far the US court system is similar to Ukrainian one, which is the worst in the world I think...

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Quoting robert1307

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So far they are playing a game "we haven't received payment and any forms from you". When I'm trying to explain I have not received form back from them (I have a certified mail receipt that they received my request Feb 17 btw) they trying to make me download form by myself from internet. I said I don't have an internet access and WTF is going on? They are redirecting to some voice mail number where I should explain the situation. I did. Awaiting a callback.
I don't like this as my deadline passed 2 days ago.
So far the US court system is similar to Ukrainian one, which is the worst in the world I think...

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When they say "we haven't received payment and any forms from you" ask where the requirement is for payment or submission of forms when a person makes an initial request for trial by written declaration. Then, show them your own copy of CRC 4.210 that you printed on your own computer. If you show them that they are violating the California Rules of Court, maybe that will change their attitude. If not, get their name and write a letter to the Presiding Judge outlining the problem and asking him or her whether the employees at the courthouse should be violating these rules. Make sure you send a copy to the DA so you are not accused of attempting improper Ex Parte communications. If the Presiding Judge likes the idea of violating the Rules of Court, then file a complaint with the Commission on Judical Performance.

BTW, compliance with CRC 4.210 does not depend on whether you have internet access.

I really want to avoid going to the court in all possible ways (because for me that means a lost working day) and show them CRCs, but looks like I have to. Who is "DA" you mentioned above by the way?

I've said I have no internet access just to make them stop even thinking that procedure can be done in this illegal way.

To be honest - I'm not against sending them form 205 directly, with payment, but I know for sure, the first thing they will tell me - "Why the hell you sent us this form without a pre-written request? Go and read CRC 4.210 you fool!".

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Quoting robert1307

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I really want to avoid going to the court in all possible ways (because for me that means a lost working day) and show them CRCs, but looks like I have to. Who is "DA" you mentioned above by the way?

I've said I have no internet access just to make them stop even thinking that procedure can be done in this illegal way.

To be honest - I'm not against sending them form 205 directly, with payment, but I know for sure, the first thing they will tell me - "Why the hell you sent us this form without a pre-written request? Go and read CRC 4.210 you fool!".

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You could mail them a copy of CRC 4.210 or just quote it in a letter. DA is District Attorney. Although the DA is not usually represented in traffic court, they are in most cases the correct prosecuting authority, even if a city attorney tries to nose their way into the case. The DA is elected to represent the People of California in a given county.

If you're past the due date, even sending the TR205 with payment won't help. You might call and request an extension but I don't know whether that will work. You probably need evidence that you have been into the court prior to that date and I don't know whether you have that.

I don't know that CRC 4.210 requires a "pre-written request." Anyway, the clerk will not typically object if you deposit bail with a TR205 Form prior to the due date and many will say that's how it must be done, regardless of CRC. My impression is that you're emotionally invested here and that can be harmful to your case.

My due date was Feb 25.

The procedure says: "If the clerk receives the defendant's written request for a trial by written declaration by the appearance date, ..., the clerk must, within 15 calendar days after receiving,... extend the appearance date 25 calendar days and must give or mail notice to the defendant..."

The clerk received my written request Feb 17 (certified mail receipt has this date on it).

In a phone conversation clerk said I should have been sent a form 205 with a payment check and he doesn't understand what other procedure I'm talking about.

Of course I'm emotionally invested after that.

I've left voice messages to court manager and supervisors and hope they will be able to understand the situation and resolve it quickly.
If not - I have to go to the court and resolve this in person.

Read carefully about TBD and CRC 4.210 http://helpigotaticket.com/declar/request.html

Then, write to the clerk, highlighting the part they are having trouble with. If you can't get it fixed at that point, then write the Presiding Judge. If that doesn't work, then write the California Commission on Judicial Performance.

Some clerks (and courts) in California don't follow the California Rules of Court, even though those rules are applicable in ALL California Courts. In some situations, local procedures and forms that don't contravene the statewide rules are allowed.

If the clerk and the presiding judge and the commission all don't care about this, you're pretty much screwed.

Thanks for your advices!
I'm going to go to the court at Monday and provide all papers to clerk in person. I think they don't have any right to cancel my TBD process as they've received my written request 8 days before Due Date.
Btw the "Notice To Appear" form received from police officer (SFPD) contains this text on a backside:

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b. (Trial by written declaration(traffic infraction)) Send a certified or registered letter postmarked not later than five days prior to the appearance date or come to the court on or before the appearance date to request a trial by written declaration. Submit the bail amount. You will be given forms to allow you to write a statement and to submit other evidence...

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For me this text is same as 4.210, so strange they are not following rules they are providing to drivers.

Of course if they deny my TBD I have to write to Presiding Judge etc they simply will not leave me other choices, I'm not going to pay $300 civil assessment and other fines just because some clerk in not following basic rules.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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Obviously not, but if you were more familiar with local practice you wouldn't have been so confused.

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Since the local form is illegal in California, confusion is the correct reaction.

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Quoting robert1307

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Thanks for your advices!
I'm going to go to the court at Monday and provide all papers to clerk in person. I think they don't have any right to cancel my TBD process as they've received my written request 8 days before Due Date.
Btw the "Notice To Appear" form received from police officer (SFPD) contains this text on a backside:



For me this text is same as 4.210, so strange they are not following rules they are providing to drivers.

Of course if they deny my TBD I have to write to Presiding Judge etc they simply will not leave me other choices, I'm not going to pay $300 civil assessment and other fines just because some clerk in not following basic rules.

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You shouldn't blame that on "some clerk." That's probably how they're all doing it around there, and it is done in other courthouses where they don't follow the rules. And, that's how they've been trained to do things. If you have forms like TR002 that clearly violates CRC 4.210, that presumably were approved by judges in the Superior Court, there are big problems in the court system. Fortunately, the illegal Form TR002 doesn't apply in your county.

Certainly, the Judicial Council could have done a better job in framing the rules, but the rules are clear enough that someone who cares to follow them can do so.

My prediction is that you're so upset about this whole issue that you'll get nowhere. You need to adjust your attitude to be calm, respectful, and persistent when you visit the court. Otherwise, you risk upsetting the other person involved to the point that even if you convince them they're wrong, they'll stick to their position.

I was in a court today, calm and respectful as I usually am.
As a result - they accepted all my paperwork without a second word.
I made a mistake reading negative experience of others on this forum and calling to courts' "hot line", what I should (and recommend others) to do instead - do not call anywhere, just relax and wait mail with forms from the court (it should come within 15-18 days from the moment they receive your written request).