When Can a Parent Deny Visitation Based on Third Party Pickup or Late Arrival
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Michigan
So, hello everyone. I should give a small backstory of my case. My son's father and I have never been married, but he did sign the AOF. He is now engaged to a woman that wanted his baby before as this isn't the first time they have been together. I was told they got engaged just to try and gain her rights and custody over our son. They have threatened me with giving our son formula when he is only breastfed. He had seen him 11 times since birth and at 1 hour timeframes by his choice and refused to see him without the girlfriend. They want to try and get him joint custody so he doesn't have to pay child support. He even has refused to take our son to the emergency room when he was 3 weeks old becsuse he didn't want to get sick! Our son is now 5months old.
On Christmas Eve I was served with papers for custody of my son by his father. He actually had someone serve me the papers, but when I went to file my answer I was told he left out the paper in which he signed he served me when the hearing was and such. We just had the court for Temporary custody, and he didn't expect me there at all because he never gave me the paper. The hearing went quite crazy. The fiance wore fishnet stockings, and a mini skirt. His dad being rude to my lawyer and getting his fiancés mother involved and making my attorney wait on him to decide a parenting plan in which he didn't have ready because he said he just started a new job - at a sex store and when he brought us to court for parenting time. He also told the judge the same in not knowing a schedule, that he would get a babysitter would he not be around for visitation, resulting in him getting 9 hours a week of parenting time. I wanted supervised because of them both doing marijuana but was told he needed a conviction for that to work. He got only Saturday's and Wednesday's. He also called the cops the first day after court accusing me of not letting him see his son when my attorney said the order didn't start until the following Wednesday. The cops laughed at him basically and then had to have his fiancés mom with him to pick our son up for his first visit. Well, I had a few questions...
If he wants to take our son, do I have to leave him with the fiancé if she comes to get him or we drop him off and she's only there? Does he have to be the one to drop him off?
How long do I have to wait if he doesn't end up showing right away?
Do I have to still allow him time if he isn't able to see him right at the time ordered? Or does he forfeit the visit?
And lastly, his mother posted a photo saying how his fiancé, our son and him are all a family, which made the fiancé all excited and posted a PUBLIC photo of them on their first visit now and saying he is her step son... But that they are having him call her mama... Our son is 5months old. I don't like it at all! Especially when Wednesday was the first time he had seen his son in 2months!! I think he needs to be bonding with his son, not having a huge family reunion of sorts. I know I am not able to tell him who can visit his fiancés home and etc where he lives, but can I do anything about the whole 'mama' issue? Isn't that frowned upon?
I'm so hurt and frustrated and very upset by this. It makes me feel they are doing all they can to piss me off...
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
Why don't you all grow up??????? For this child's sake?
Who cares what she wore to court? No one credible told you that she got engaged in order to gain her rights because she'd NEVER have any rights unless she adopted the child.
If your ex boyfriend wants to take a "family" picture including his son, then by all means... take it. Post it. It's HIS family as he knows it. Stop stalking their facebook page. What's on it is none of your business.
Would it have hurt you to allow the man to have visitation a week earlier than the "order started????" Or was this a... I don't want to. And sorry to say it, but if his father, the man you saw fit to be a father wants to give this child formula, then he can.
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
I didn't stalk their page. I am also friends with his mother who posted comments on it. I don't see what I am doing so wrong if I notice it in my newsfeed.. His mother was also who told me that was why they got engaged. I agree that what she wore wasn't needed, but it just bothered me.. Sorry.
No, it wouldnt have hurt him to have time that day, but my attorney had said to tell him it didn't start right away so I could have time to pump and send milk with him for a bottle. In Michigan, I was told we have a breastfeeding thing with custody issues I believe. I don't see why I should let him give him formula when he has never had any...
I don't know exactly what I did so wrong to sound like I'm not trying to do what's best for my son. My biggest hurt out of all this, I just don't like them labeling her as 'mama'..
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
You are his mom, not the fiance. She has no rights to him now, nor would she if they were to get married. Her and her family demanding things in court will only make things harder on dad, as courts don't take kindly to meddling step parents.
It is understandable the hurt you would feel for him to call someone else mama, but wouldn't you rather him have a step parent that cares for him as her own child, as opposed to one that wants nothing to do with your son and treats him like an outsider? You will always be his mother.
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
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Imagxinary
I didn't stalk their page. I am also friends with his mother who posted comments on it. I don't see what I am doing so wrong if I notice it in my newsfeed.. His mother was also who told me that was why they got engaged. I agree that what she wore wasn't needed, but it just bothered me.. Sorry.
No, it wouldnt have hurt him to have time that day, but my attorney had said to tell him it didn't start right away so I could have time to pump and send milk with him for a bottle. In Michigan, I was told we have a breastfeeding thing with custody issues I believe. I don't see why I should let him give him formula when he has never had any...
I don't know exactly what I did so wrong to sound like I'm not trying to do what's best for my son. My biggest hurt out of all this, I just don't like them labeling her as 'mama'..
It IS very inappropriate of them to label her as "mama" but there is almost nothing you can do about it at this point. Until your child is verbal and actually calls her mama, its a moot point. Based on their history, she might not even be in the picture by then.
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
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Imagxinary
He actually had someone serve me the papers, but when I went to file my answer I was told he left out the paper in which he signed he served me when the hearing was and such.
You have a lawyer and you attended the hearing with the lawyer. Either this was raised as an issue at that time, or you and your lawyer chose not to raise questions about service. One way or another, it's now water under the bridge.
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Quoting Imagxinary
He got only Saturday's and Wednesday's. He also called the cops the first day after court accusing me of not letting him see his son when my attorney said the order didn't start until the following Wednesday.
What matters is what the order says, not what your attorney says. I can take your attorney's word (as presented by you) for the order starting the following Wednesday, but I can't verify that for you.
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Quoting Imagxinary
If he wants to take our son, do I have to leave him with the fiancé if she comes to get him or we drop him off and she's only there? Does he have to be the one to drop him off?
It is very normal for a third party to help with picking up and dropping off children for visits. If you don't want that to happen, I suggest that you discuss your options with your lawyer. I doubt that he'll advise you to rush back to court absent some compelling evidence that a third party's assistance with pick-up and drop-off poses a significant risk of harm to the child, but you won't know his views until you ask.
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Quoting Imagxinary
How long do I have to wait if he doesn't end up showing right away?
If you want to have a provision in the custody order pursuant to which parenting time is forfeited if dad doesn't show up within a certain number of minutes of the scheduled start time, that's another issue to discuss with your lawyer. You seem to be getting ahead of yourself.
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Quoting Imagxinary
And lastly, his mother posted a photo saying how his fiancé, our son and him are all a family, which made the fiancé all excited and posted a PUBLIC photo of them on their first visit now and saying he is her step son...
Unless and until she marries your ex-, she's not. Her words don't matter.
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Quoting Imagxinary
But that they are having him call her mama...
This is something you read on Facebook? This is something you're inferring from Facebook?
If you want the order amended to restrict the other parent from having the child refer to somebody else with a label that suggests that she's his mother, yes, that's something to discuss with your lawyer.
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Imagxinary
My biggest hurt out of all this, I just don't like them labeling her as 'mama'..
Is the issue here that they referred to the fiancée as the child's "mama" or "stepmother" on the Facebook page? Because that's something entirely different from encouraging the child to call her "mama".
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
At 5 mos old I'm going to assume that your baby isn't verbalizing yet. I will say that it could be *very* confusing for a baby who is just learning to speak to have two women / two families encouraging the little one to call two different women "mama," but honestly, absent a court order to the contrary, there's not too much you can do about it. Even *with* a court order it can be difficult to enforce. We dealt with this situation (no court order involved) and there wasn't anything ultimately that we could do about my husband's kids being encouraged to call their step-father dad. I never let the kids call me mom because I wasn't their mom.
You might try to become as friendly with your ex's fiancee as possible. If they do marry you're going to want this lady to love your child too, correct? Because a child can never have too many people loving him. Maybe you can have a reasonable conversation with your ex and his fiancee, talk about how upsetting it is for his fiancee to encourage your baby to call her mama. She might not get it now, but trust me - she'll get it when she has a baby of her own. Maybe you can work something out where when your baby becomes verbal he can call her Mama _____ (whatever her name is).
The family pic? Dad is entitled to post family pics with his son.
Calm down, take several deep breaths. You are going to be tied to your ex, and possibly his fiancee, for a very very long time. Pick your battles and don't anticipate trouble. If dad is consistently late for pick up, and I mean consistently late over a year + time period, you might ask your lawyer about the possibility of getting a no show clause incorporated into the parenting plan. But every once in a while? Like I said, pick your battles.
You do NOT want to spend the next 18 years in and out of court. Trust me - you just don't.
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
Mom, listen up a sec. You are going to have a completely miserable next 18 years if you don't settle yourself down at least emotionally.
The bottom line is that you're worried about things which really don't matter a whole heck of a lot. The court doesn't care about fishnets and mini skirts, and the court really doesn't care about who picks up the child.
What I suggest is that you simply treat Dad and his new fishnets exactly the same way you'd treat any other person with whom your child comes into contact.
The more you try to control the issue, the more frustrated you're going to be and the more ammo you'll be giving Dad. Let. It. Go.
And for the love of Pete, STOP TRYING TO CONTROL DAD. It is NOT going to work, and if either one of you is going to get penalized, it'll be you.
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Ah. http://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/visitation-rules-611991.html
(There are other threads too(
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
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Dogmatique
Uy.
Re: Visitation Rules Mama
When babies are learning to talk, they'll call everyone Mama; the dog, the neighbor, the male parent, grandmothers....