Can You Be Detained for Not Presenting ID Upon an Officer's Request

My question involves civil rights in the State of: usa

If a cop stops me on the street and asks for an ID, and I dont have it on me. if I didnt commit any crime at all, and if the cop has no reason to believe I'm involved in a crime, can I be detained for simply not having an ID on me, until my identity is proven?

I ask because I dont want to carry an ID on me every time I take a walk or go to the supermarket. (I dont drive)

If you have not committed any crime, and if there is no reason for a cop to believe you are involved in a crime, why would a cop stop you?

- - - Updated - - -

ETA: Posting history is interesting

Before we proceed any further with your question, who is it that has determined the officer has no reason to believe you are involved in a crime?

Is it you that has made this determination based solely on your assessment of the situation?

No, you do not need to carry your "papers" around with you in case you would be asked to produce them. The police requesting you to identify yourself does not require a formal government or state-issued ID. Simply providing your first and last name is sufficient for identification purposes. If you are specifically referring to a driver's license as ID, you are only required to produce a driver's license when operating a motor vehicle. There is a difference between showing an ID and providing your ID. If stopped, you simply tell the officer "I do not have any formal identification on my person but am happy to provide you with my name". Done.

Though, if you are being cited for an offense and lack sufficient ID, you can generally be held until ID is verified. I know it may come as a surprise, but some people LIE about who they are ... and while the police can choose to accept someone's word for who they are in a cite and release situation, they do not have to.

But, in a detention only, provided you are in one of those few states where you must ID yourself on a detention, a verbal ID may be sufficient.

Quote:

---

Quoting PADriver13

---

No, you do not need to carry your "papers" around with you in case you would be asked to produce them. The police requesting you to identify yourself does not require a formal government or state-issued ID. Simply providing your first and last name is sufficient for identification purposes. If you are specifically referring to a driver's license as ID, you are only required to produce a driver's license when operating a motor vehicle. There is a difference between showing an ID and providing your ID. If stopped, you simply tell the officer "I do not have any formal identification on my person but am happy to provide you with my name". Done.

---

This is not universally true.

To the OP: Start carrying your ID. What L-1 and cdwjava have said are spot on.

And, if you are one of these "rights activists," who will refuse to show ID just on principle, then the adage "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" applies.

That's a narrowly worded question about a hypothetical situation asked in a vacuum.

Quote:

---

Quoting DeputyDog

---

This is not universally true.

---

It is in any jurisdiction that falls under the U.S. Constitution. Show me any ordinance that says it is required by law that an individual walking down the street MUST be able to present a form of state-issued identification. As cdw pointed out, sure, you can be detained while an officer is validating your verbal identification. Yes, it is a crime to lie about that. Just as it is a crime to present a physical ID that is not yours. Yes, the circumstances of the initial encounter matter very much. My point is that there is no law requiring an ordinary citizen who is walking down the street TO carry a specific item on his person (i.e. a physical ID). This is not "an activist rant". There is a very specific reason why free countries cannot and should not expect their citizenry to "show papers" on demand.

Point to me any ordinance that says a police officer can arrest and take to jail someone for simply not having a physical state-sponsored identification on their person? No ordinance or law exists. You must provide identification. Verbal identification is more than acceptable, and the officer will verify it while you wait. Want to avoid the wait? Carry your ID around everywhere. But this notion that some law requires it is just not true.

Providing identification and providing a state-issues piece of plastic are not the same thing. Not the same argument.

PS - I carry 3 forms of picture ID around with me at all time (DL, LTCF, and work ID). I am not one to bait cops to asking me for ID so I can record them on YouTube.

Quote:

---

Quoting PADriver13

---

It is in any jurisdiction that falls under the U.S. Constitution. Show me any ordinance that says it is required by law that an individual walking down the street MUST be able to present a form of state-issued identification. As cdw pointed out, sure, you can be detained while an officer is validating your verbal identification. Yes, it is a crime to lie about that. Just as it is a crime to present a physical ID that is not yours. Yes, the circumstances of the initial encounter matter very much. My point is that there is no law requiring an ordinary citizen who is walking down the street TO carry a specific item on his person (i.e. a physical ID). This is not "an activist rant". There is a very specific reason why free countries cannot and should not expect their citizenry to "show papers" on demand.

Point to me any ordinance that says a police officer can arrest and take to jail someone for simply not having a physical state-sponsored identification on their person? No ordinance or law exists. You must provide identification. Verbal identification is more than acceptable, and the officer will verify it while you wait. Want to avoid the wait? Carry your ID around everywhere. But this notion that some law requires it is just not true.

Providing identification and providing a state-issues piece of plastic are not the same thing. Not the same argument.

PS - I carry 3 forms of picture ID around with me at all time (DL, LTCF, and work ID). I am not one to bait cops to asking me for ID so I can record them on YouTube.

---

You're making an academic argument. I'm glad to hear that you aren't one of these idiots who posts YouTube videos and that you always carry ID.

If you want to tell people that there is no "ordinance that requires a physical, government issued ID," you might well be right (our state actually did have one on the books at one point, but I suspect it is unconstitutional,) but you are doing them a disservice if you don't also instruct them in how things will work in the real world.

It raises cops eyebrows when someone doesn't have physical ID. And if they go to run one through the computer and the computer is down, or the picture that comes up on the computer doesn't look exactly like the person standing in front of them because the person has lost 100 lbs, or dyed their hair, or it's just hard to tell, or any other number of circumstances, not showing a physical ID might well land one in jail.

So tell people that they don't have to have or show ID all you want; the truth is, not having or showing ID could, in many cases, land someone in jail who otherwise might not have gone. In this state (and most) we can hold you for up to 72 hours for "investigation." So match the description of a shoplifting suspect, or purse snatching suspect, or just be suspicious, and fail to show ID - you could well be locked up for a couple days.

Quote:

---

Quoting DeputyDog

---

You're making an academic argument. I'm glad to hear that you aren't one of these idiots who posts YouTube videos and that you always carry ID.

---

I can't stand to see those "activists" who give others like myself a bad name. If a confrontation happens and you are able to record it, fine. But to walk around intentionally to bait police officers into stopping you and getting into a debate is pointless and a waste of taxpayer resources (you can probably guess that irks me as well).

Quote:

---

If you want to tell people that there is no "ordinance that requires a physical, government issued ID," you might well be right (our state actually did have one on the books at one point, but I suspect it is unconstitutional,) but you are doing them a disservice if you don't also instruct them in how things will work in the real world.

---

I agree and disagree. It's a personal choice for each person to decide for himself to ID or not. I just don't like allowing the myth to perpetrate that you must have a valid state-issued ID on you at all time. PA is a no-duty to inform state when carrying. Sometimes when I am stopped, I inform. Other times, I don't. It depends on the circumstance, the situation, and how the interaction with the officer goes, for example.

Quote:

---

It raises cops eyebrows when someone doesn't have physical ID. And if they go to run one through the computer and the computer is down, or the picture that comes up on the computer doesn't look exactly like the person standing in front of them because the person has lost 100 lbs, or dyed their hair, or it's just hard to tell, or any other number of circumstances, not showing a physical ID might well land one in jail.

---

While I understand it raises eyebrows, that doesn't change that fact that it is not required. Furthermore, every situation is different. If there is a reason for the cops to be stopping someone, that's one thing. Being asked for an ID randomly when you didn't first cause suspicion is another. And in the latter, I'd guess sitting in jail would result in a nice lawsuit for the individual. The former, not so much.

Quote:

---

So tell people that they don't have to have or show ID all you want; the truth is, not having or showing ID could, in many cases, land someone in jail who otherwise might not have gone. In this state (and most) we can hold you for up to 72 hours for "investigation." So match the description of a shoplifting suspect, or purse snatching suspect, or just be suspicious, and fail to show ID - you could well be locked up for a couple days.

---

Agreed and acknowledged. Each individual must weigh that cost. If one truly believes in what our country was founded upon, the rights and freedoms that are endowed to us, than that individual can weigh the cost and benefits to standing for what they believe in.

My bottom line is that providing a state-issued photo ID and identifying yourself to a police officer when requested, are not the same thing. It's up to each individual to decide on their own how much (or how little) they choose to exercise their rights and freedoms. I wish more people would do this is a respectable manner.

PS - the answer to OP's initial question, "Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else" is an unequivocal "yes", you can be detained.

Just a couple of thoughts to what you've written: Generally speaking, and I'm not saying that this applies to you personally, people are far more concerned - too concerned - with their rights, and not nearly concerned enough about their responsibilities.

Also - again, I don't think this applies to you - but it amuses me when people start saying or thinking "Oh, so I could end up in jail for a while, but in the end, it'll be shown that I did nothing wrong and maybe even get to file a lawsuit." These must be people who have no jobs or responsibilities. I can tell you that if I were ever held in jail for even 24 hours, that would be a HUGE, BIG DEAL that would have major ramifications for my life. There would be work missed (more than 1 job,) possibly school missed, and family obligations not taken care of. Isn't it easier to just carry the ID?

Again - I understand everything you are saying and I'm not applying those previous thoughts to you personally, just in general.

Its interesting to note that the OP has performed a skillful hit and run here.

The have asked a broadly worded question that is open to considerable interpretation, declined to add any clarification and has everyone fighting among themselves.

Bravo Superior Feline! Great trolling skills.

Quote:

---

Quoting DeputyDog

---

This is not universally true.

To the OP: Start carrying your ID. What L-1 and cdwjava have said are spot on.

And, if you are one of these "rights activists," who will refuse to show ID just on principle, then the adage "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" applies.

---

The only time you are legally required to present an id is of you are engaged in an activity where the law requires you to possess a said Id on your person OR if in a state such as Indiana where if the cop has reasonae suspicion to detain you and asks for your identification and you have it on you. If a cop demands it otherwise it is a violation of your civil rights. Although it wouldn't be likely to go anywhere in the courts it joe be an actionable offense.

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

The only time you are legally required to present an id is of you are engaged in an activity where the law requires you to possess a said Id on your person OR if in a state such as Indiana where if the cop has reasonae suspicion to detain you and asks for your identification and you have it on you. If a cop demands it otherwise it is a violation of your civil rights. Although it wouldn't be likely to go anywhere in the courts it joe be an actionable offense.

---

It's like you haven't read anything past the post that you quoted above.

Quote:

---

Quoting DeputyDog

---

Also - again, I don't think this applies to you - but it amuses me when people start saying or thinking "Oh, so I could end up in jail for a while, but in the end, it'll be shown that I did nothing wrong and maybe even get to file a lawsuit." These must be people who have no jobs or responsibilities. I can tell you that if I were ever held in jail for even 24 hours, that would be a HUGE, BIG DEAL that would have major ramifications for my life. There would be work missed (more than 1 job,) possibly school missed, and family obligations not taken care of. Isn't it easier to just carry the ID?

---

Well, the authorities hope that the person they're harassing is someone like you, someone who can't go to jail even for one day without his life falling apart.

Unfortunately, sometimes, people must go to jail, in order to correct civil-rights abuses. I'm sure glad that Rosa Parks didn't mind going to jail for a little while.

As for me, I'm a freelancer, and I work from time to time. So, no, my life will not fall apart if I go to jail for only 24 hours.

Quote:

---

Quoting DeputyDog

---

It's like you haven't read anything past the post that you quoted above.

---

I read it all. Got tired of all the "you should", "it's a good idea", whatever. You do remember what the question was, right?
but other than thst, it isn't your thread so go jump in a lake.


and since you wish to knuckle under and comply with rules that aren't, get a spine.

Actually have been stopped just walking years ago from a restaurant to a motel where GF was visiting her sister (resident) left my car there because all the cross traffic and road designed sucked. Officer checked ID, asked why I was walking back n forth, when I explained due to walking being half the distance driving, he told me next time to take my car.

Quote:

---

Quoting cbg

---

If you have not committed any crime, and if there is no reason for a cop to believe you are involved in a crime, why would a cop stop you?

- - - Updated - - -

ETA: Posting history is interesting

---

I think you rather missed my point, but okay.

One little contribution to this:

I worked at a retail store when I was in my teens. They would set up an office every Friday for paychecks. We had to show ID, then to cash our check there....sign and also include either Drivers License Number or SSN. As a result....both my numbers are memorized.

Worked nice one night when I was 21 or 22 and went to a nightclub and the bouncer (who knew me) wanted to give me a hard time. Had me recite my DL number two times....s l o w l y. He finally said "fine, you're good". Point being though...if I ever got into a situation where I had no ID....I could state my name, DL number and SSN number easily.....

Quote:

---

Quoting Disagreeable

---

Actually have been stopped just walking years ago from a restaurant to a motel where GF was visiting her sister (resident) left my car there because all the cross traffic and road designed sucked. Officer checked ID, asked why I was walking back n forth, when I explained due to walking being half the distance driving, he told me next time to take my car.

---

But if you drive your car back and forth, the cop will stop you for that, too.

I carry ID on me all the time. Why? because (a) I drive a car, so I need to, (b) because I occasionally write a check or use a credit card and get asked for ID, and, (c) if stopped even as a pedestrian for some reason (which hasn't happened since 1992), I have some way to identify myself so that I don't have to spend a lot of time detained while they sort things out.

I prefer to streamline my life to avoid the possible pitfalls of conflict ... life is easier that way (not to mention the blood pressure stays low).

I can't find a good reason NOT to carry ID on me. Since I'm not stopped by "the man" with any frequency, it's only inconveniencing ME not to have my ID on me - I'm not thumbing my nose at the all-pervasive state and inconveniencing the gendarme by my not carrying ID on me, so why not carry it?

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Quoting PandorasBox

---

One little contribution to this:

I worked at a retail store when I was in my teens. They would set up an office every Friday for paychecks. We had to show ID, then to cash our check there....sign and also include either Drivers License Number or SSN. As a result....both my numbers are memorized.

Worked nice one night when I was 21 or 22 and went to a nightclub and the bouncer (who knew me) wanted to give me a hard time. Had me recite my DL number two times....s l o w l y. He finally said "fine, you're good". Point being though...if I ever got into a situation where I had no ID....I could state my name, DL number and SSN number easily.....

---

Of course, an officer in the field could only verify your name with a DL and even then, if he was to issue you a citation or make an arrest, he doesn't have to accept said verbal memorization as the gospel truth since <gasp> some people do lie about such things. But, if only detained, that should generally be sufficient to avoid an arrest for failure to ID.

Quote:

---

Quoting jk

---

I read it all. Got tired of all the "you should", "it's a good idea", whatever. You do remember what the question was, right?
but other than thst, it isn't your thread so go jump in a lake.


and since you wish to knuckle under and comply with rules that aren't, get a spine.

---

It's not your thread either. And I have more of a spine than you'll ever have.

You want a concise answer? YES you can be detained for not showing ID when requested.