Can You Be Detained for Not Presenting ID Upon an Officer's Request
My question involves civil rights in the State of: usa
If a cop stops me on the street and asks for an ID, and I dont have it on me. if I didnt commit any crime at all, and if the cop has no reason to believe I'm involved in a crime, can I be detained for simply not having an ID on me, until my identity is proven?
I ask because I dont want to carry an ID on me every time I take a walk or go to the supermarket. (I dont drive)
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
If you have not committed any crime, and if there is no reason for a cop to believe you are involved in a crime, why would a cop stop you?
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ETA: Posting history is interesting
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
Before we proceed any further with your question, who is it that has determined the officer has no reason to believe you are involved in a crime?
Is it you that has made this determination based solely on your assessment of the situation?
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
No, you do not need to carry your "papers" around with you in case you would be asked to produce them. The police requesting you to identify yourself does not require a formal government or state-issued ID. Simply providing your first and last name is sufficient for identification purposes. If you are specifically referring to a driver's license as ID, you are only required to produce a driver's license when operating a motor vehicle. There is a difference between showing an ID and providing your ID. If stopped, you simply tell the officer "I do not have any formal identification on my person but am happy to provide you with my name". Done.
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
Though, if you are being cited for an offense and lack sufficient ID, you can generally be held until ID is verified. I know it may come as a surprise, but some people LIE about who they are ... and while the police can choose to accept someone's word for who they are in a cite and release situation, they do not have to.
But, in a detention only, provided you are in one of those few states where you must ID yourself on a detention, a verbal ID may be sufficient.
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
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PADriver13
No, you do not need to carry your "papers" around with you in case you would be asked to produce them. The police requesting you to identify yourself does not require a formal government or state-issued ID. Simply providing your first and last name is sufficient for identification purposes. If you are specifically referring to a driver's license as ID, you are only required to produce a driver's license when operating a motor vehicle. There is a difference between showing an ID and providing your ID. If stopped, you simply tell the officer "I do not have any formal identification on my person but am happy to provide you with my name". Done.
This is not universally true.
To the OP: Start carrying your ID. What L-1 and cdwjava have said are spot on.
And, if you are one of these "rights activists," who will refuse to show ID just on principle, then the adage "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" applies.
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
That's a narrowly worded question about a hypothetical situation asked in a vacuum.
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
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DeputyDog
This is not universally true.
It is in any jurisdiction that falls under the U.S. Constitution. Show me any ordinance that says it is required by law that an individual walking down the street MUST be able to present a form of state-issued identification. As cdw pointed out, sure, you can be detained while an officer is validating your verbal identification. Yes, it is a crime to lie about that. Just as it is a crime to present a physical ID that is not yours. Yes, the circumstances of the initial encounter matter very much. My point is that there is no law requiring an ordinary citizen who is walking down the street TO carry a specific item on his person (i.e. a physical ID). This is not "an activist rant". There is a very specific reason why free countries cannot and should not expect their citizenry to "show papers" on demand.
Point to me any ordinance that says a police officer can arrest and take to jail someone for simply not having a physical state-sponsored identification on their person? No ordinance or law exists. You must provide identification. Verbal identification is more than acceptable, and the officer will verify it while you wait. Want to avoid the wait? Carry your ID around everywhere. But this notion that some law requires it is just not true.
Providing identification and providing a state-issues piece of plastic are not the same thing. Not the same argument.
PS - I carry 3 forms of picture ID around with me at all time (DL, LTCF, and work ID). I am not one to bait cops to asking me for ID so I can record them on YouTube.
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
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PADriver13
It is in any jurisdiction that falls under the U.S. Constitution. Show me any ordinance that says it is required by law that an individual walking down the street MUST be able to present a form of state-issued identification. As cdw pointed out, sure, you can be detained while an officer is validating your verbal identification. Yes, it is a crime to lie about that. Just as it is a crime to present a physical ID that is not yours. Yes, the circumstances of the initial encounter matter very much. My point is that there is no law requiring an ordinary citizen who is walking down the street TO carry a specific item on his person (i.e. a physical ID). This is not "an activist rant". There is a very specific reason why free countries cannot and should not expect their citizenry to "show papers" on demand.
Point to me any ordinance that says a police officer can arrest and take to jail someone for simply not having a physical state-sponsored identification on their person? No ordinance or law exists. You must provide identification. Verbal identification is more than acceptable, and the officer will verify it while you wait. Want to avoid the wait? Carry your ID around everywhere. But this notion that some law requires it is just not true.
Providing identification and providing a state-issues piece of plastic are not the same thing. Not the same argument.
PS - I carry 3 forms of picture ID around with me at all time (DL, LTCF, and work ID). I am not one to bait cops to asking me for ID so I can record them on YouTube.
You're making an academic argument. I'm glad to hear that you aren't one of these idiots who posts YouTube videos and that you always carry ID.
If you want to tell people that there is no "ordinance that requires a physical, government issued ID," you might well be right (our state actually did have one on the books at one point, but I suspect it is unconstitutional,) but you are doing them a disservice if you don't also instruct them in how things will work in the real world.
It raises cops eyebrows when someone doesn't have physical ID. And if they go to run one through the computer and the computer is down, or the picture that comes up on the computer doesn't look exactly like the person standing in front of them because the person has lost 100 lbs, or dyed their hair, or it's just hard to tell, or any other number of circumstances, not showing a physical ID might well land one in jail.
So tell people that they don't have to have or show ID all you want; the truth is, not having or showing ID could, in many cases, land someone in jail who otherwise might not have gone. In this state (and most) we can hold you for up to 72 hours for "investigation." So match the description of a shoplifting suspect, or purse snatching suspect, or just be suspicious, and fail to show ID - you could well be locked up for a couple days.
Re: Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else
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DeputyDog
You're making an academic argument. I'm glad to hear that you aren't one of these idiots who posts YouTube videos and that you always carry ID.
I can't stand to see those "activists" who give others like myself a bad name. If a confrontation happens and you are able to record it, fine. But to walk around intentionally to bait police officers into stopping you and getting into a debate is pointless and a waste of taxpayer resources (you can probably guess that irks me as well).
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If you want to tell people that there is no "ordinance that requires a physical, government issued ID," you might well be right (our state actually did have one on the books at one point, but I suspect it is unconstitutional,) but you are doing them a disservice if you don't also instruct them in how things will work in the real world.
I agree and disagree. It's a personal choice for each person to decide for himself to ID or not. I just don't like allowing the myth to perpetrate that you must have a valid state-issued ID on you at all time. PA is a no-duty to inform state when carrying. Sometimes when I am stopped, I inform. Other times, I don't. It depends on the circumstance, the situation, and how the interaction with the officer goes, for example.
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It raises cops eyebrows when someone doesn't have physical ID. And if they go to run one through the computer and the computer is down, or the picture that comes up on the computer doesn't look exactly like the person standing in front of them because the person has lost 100 lbs, or dyed their hair, or it's just hard to tell, or any other number of circumstances, not showing a physical ID might well land one in jail.
While I understand it raises eyebrows, that doesn't change that fact that it is not required. Furthermore, every situation is different. If there is a reason for the cops to be stopping someone, that's one thing. Being asked for an ID randomly when you didn't first cause suspicion is another. And in the latter, I'd guess sitting in jail would result in a nice lawsuit for the individual. The former, not so much.
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So tell people that they don't have to have or show ID all you want; the truth is, not having or showing ID could, in many cases, land someone in jail who otherwise might not have gone. In this state (and most) we can hold you for up to 72 hours for "investigation." So match the description of a shoplifting suspect, or purse snatching suspect, or just be suspicious, and fail to show ID - you could well be locked up for a couple days.
Agreed and acknowledged. Each individual must weigh that cost. If one truly believes in what our country was founded upon, the rights and freedoms that are endowed to us, than that individual can weigh the cost and benefits to standing for what they believe in.
My bottom line is that providing a state-issued photo ID and identifying yourself to a police officer when requested, are not the same thing. It's up to each individual to decide on their own how much (or how little) they choose to exercise their rights and freedoms. I wish more people would do this is a respectable manner.
PS - the answer to OP's initial question, "Can I Be Detained for Not Carrying an Id Alone, and Nothing else" is an unequivocal "yes", you can be detained.