Minor Caught with Drugs at School

My question involves juvenile law in the State of: arizona,phoenix. I am 15 and my back pack was searched at school because someone snitched me out they found a butterfly knife,boxcutter,scale,pipe,rolling papers,2 lighters,matches, eye drops,a metal pen cap i use to kill roaches and about 6grams in a candle jar some weed was baged up in the jar (an eighth which is 3.5 grams). This guy i know who snitched me out was my friends brother somehow he had my friends weed and gram baggies and when he got caught he said he was holding it for me. I am being charged with possetion of a wepon and possetion of marijuana with the intent to sell on public school property. They told me a court date will be mailed to me in a few months its been about 4 days but i want to know if they will charge me as an adult or get juvie or probation.

You're in a world of hurt here, not only because you're facing criminal charges but you could very likely be expelled from school.

You can be charged as an adult in AZ at the age of 15. Whether the DA chooses to prosecute as a juvenile or an adult is based on several factors. The fact that you were in possession of a weapon, drugs and drug paraphernalia on school property doesn't help your case and may result in sentencing enhancements.

If you haven't told your parents yet I suggest you fess up and go talk to a criminal defense lawyer.

Who searched your backpack? Were the police present when it was searched? Were your parents present when it was searched? Is that not a violation of due process for school employees to intimidate a 15 year old student into opening his private property based on what some other kid says?

a lawyer could probably make an argument for chain of evidence being broken due to not having a cop do the search, unless a cop was at the school,, many schools have that now, probably the same for any statements that are made to anyone but a cop. that might help in the criminal aspect, but not for your school issues

What's your prior judicial record? Per Maricopa County, for non-violent offenses,

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Quoting Arizona Delinquency

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A youth, who is at least 14 years of age, and who has been convicted in the Juvenile Court of two prior felonies and then is arrested for another felony MAY be tried in the adult criminal court if the County Attorney believes it is necessary to protect the public. ARS § 13-501.

If the County Attorney wants to try any other juvenile in adult criminal court, a motion to transfer must be filed. A Juvenile Court judge must then make two determinations: (1) whether there is probable cause to proceed; and if so, (2) whether the juvenile should be transferred to the adult court to protect the community after a consideration of the seriousness of the alleged offense and the manner it was caused, whether a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument was used, whether it was a crime against property or person; whether anyone was injured as a result of the juvenile's actions, whether the juvenile was acting with or furtherance of a gang, the juvenile's sophistication and maturity, the juvenile's physical, mental and emotional condition, the juvenile's previous Juvenile Court history, if any, whether the juvenile had previously been committed to the Arizona Department of Juvenile Corrections and the prospects for adequate protection of the public and the likelihood of reasonable rehabilitation by the use of services and facilities of the Court. Rule 14, Rules of Procedure for the Juvenile Court.

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Quoting PADriver13

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Is that not a violation of due process for school employees to intimidate a 15 year old student into opening his private property based on what some other kid says?

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No, it is not.

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Quoting New Jersey v. T.L.O., 469 U.S. 325, 83 L.Ed.2d 720, 105 S.Ct. 733 (1985)

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[T]he legality of a search of a student should depend simply on the reasonableness, under all the circumstances, of the search. Determining the reasonableness of any search involves a twofold inquiry: first, one must consider "whether the . . . action was justified at its inception," Terry v. Ohio, 392 U. S., at 20; second, one must determine whether the search as actually conducted "was reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place," ibid. Under ordinary circumstances, a search of a student by a teacher or other school official will be "justified at its inception" when there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that the search will turn up evidence that the student has violated or is violating either the law or the rules of the school. Such a search will be permissible in its scope when the measures adopted are reasonably related to the objectives of the search and not excessively intrusive in light of the age and sex of the student and the nature of the infraction.

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A report from another student that a student possesses contraband will generally support a search of their bags and outer clothing. See, e.g., Safford Unified School Dist. No. 1 v. Redding, 129 S. Ct. 2633 (2009).

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Quoting tonynewman

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a lawyer could probably make an argument for chain of evidence being broken due to not having a cop do the search

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Tony, as is too often the case, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

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Quoting tonynewman

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....probably the same for any statements that are made to anyone but a cop.

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Chain of custody is not ever an issue with self-incriminating statements but, leaving that aside, you are wrong again.

can you explain? if a teacher searches, finds drugs,, calls the police and hands the drugs over, there is no argument for this,, being a teacher is not a law enforcement officer ?

just the same, could I call the police on you, hand them drugs and say I found it on your person. you know what im saying.

the teacher is not with the police dept. I could be wrong,, but I think its a valid point

Tony, if you need incredibly basic legal concepts explained to you, start your own thread.

I got myself into a situation way back when in grade school. This was way before any of the mass school shootings, etc. A friend of mine and I bought these little orange guns that shot plastic discs. In any case, I made a bad decision and decided to shove as many of those plastic discs into a pay phone. I don't know, I was a dumb kid. I wasn't trying to break the pay phone, but was trying to see if these discs would let you make a call (they were the same size as a quarter). Anyway, I got caught by a lunch room proctor. He knew the discs were shot out of a gun, and proceeded to interrogate me about where the gun was. I said I didn't have it (which was technically true, as I didn't have it on my person). So the proctor took me to the principal, who also questioned me. I explained I was just goofing around, meant no harm, etc. So the principal got the janitor to cut the lock off my locker and they found the plastic gun in there. I was suspended for a week due to "having a weapon on school property". The police were called and I was questioned. After being questioned, my parents were called to pick me up. Long story short, the school (and the local police) determined not to pursue any formal charges. In my case, the local JP specifically said the school handled the "investigation" incorrectly and that my parents should have been notified and present before any questioning and before my locker was broken into. Maybe an exception was made in my specific case, but the point I am trying to make is that some of the arguments tony made were why the JP didn't pursue it (in her own words). FWIW.

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Quoting PADriver13

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Who searched your backpack? Were the police present when it was searched? Were your parents present when it was searched? Is that not a violation of due process for school employees to intimidate a 15 year old student into opening his private property based on what some other kid says?

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Schools have long been granted a great deal of leeway to conduct searches for reasons of school safety with merely a burden of reasonable suspicion as opposed to probable cause.

EDIT: I see that Mr. K. already made that point ... so ... time to head off to bed.

I didn't say they could not search,,i know they can search,, but I was implying that evidence found by a teacher/principal might not hold up in a court of law, due to the teacher not being a law enforcement officer. therefore the chain of evidence started with the teacher, not the student.

Their is a cop at my highschool but the cop was not present in the room while i was questioned and searched then after that i had to write a stateme and then the cop came in and looked at what was found on me then he questioned me (read me my maranda rights first but told me i was not under aresst then told me if i am willing to drop my rights to talk to him i did not know what that exactly ment but i said yes) another thing i never said yes or no that they can search my bag i just said i have a knife in the small pouch and i set my bag on the table and they opened everything

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^^^^^^

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Quoting tonynewman

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I didn't say they could not search,,i know they can search,, but I was implying that evidence found by a teacher/principal might not hold up in a court of law, due to the teacher not being a law enforcement officer. therefore the chain of evidence started with the teacher, not the student.

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I recognize what you are saying. The problem is that you don't know what you are talking about and, as happens far too often with your posts, you are completely wrong.

In my state you don't have to be in law enforcement to sign in the chain of evidence. Although the evidence in the situation I'm referring to deals with post rape exams.

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Quoting PADriver13

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I got myself into a situation way back when in grade school.....

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That's an interesting story. But this case didn't involve a locker search and, under Arizona law, parents do not need to be notified unless the minor is arrested at school -- the questioning and searches leading up to that point can occur without any notice to or involvement of the parents.

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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In my state you don't have to be in law enforcement to sign in the chain of evidence. Although the evidence in the situation I'm referring to deals with post rape exams.

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I can enumerate the number of states in which Tony's theory has any validity by holding up zero fingers.

that seems like a slippery slope,, that any regular citizen can hand over drug evidence to a police officer and say I found it on this guys person or purse and that they can be arrested and even convicted in a court of law based on that evidence alone. seems like that would open the door to all sorts of acts of revenge.

can i ask if you are a lawyer Mr knowitall, just so i have an idea of what you base your statements of "im just wrong" on,, i could be wrong,, im not saying im right in any of my posts,,, more or less im just here to learn new things like most other users of this site.

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Quoting tonynewman

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I didn't say they could not search,,i know they can search,, but I was implying that evidence found by a teacher/principal might not hold up in a court of law, due to the teacher not being a law enforcement officer. therefore the chain of evidence started with the teacher, not the student.

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Please don't argue legal concepts with an attorney when you don't know what you're talking about...

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Quoting CourtClerk

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Please don't argue legal concepts with an attorney when you don't know what you're talking about...

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im not arguing anything,, how im I to know he was a lawyer,, I just find it hard to believe its true that anyone can hand drug evidence over to the police and they can convict based on that evidence alone, another poster here thinks this as well,, but whatever, im wrong. ill go away,, sorry I said anything... forget about it,, no need for the usual gang up.. Im done

Tony, you were correctly advised that if you want to educate yourself you should start your own threads for that purpose. When somebody is seeking help, the purpose of the thread is not "everybody stop what you're doing so we can educate Tony." I thought I had previously warned you about disrupting other people's threads. If not, consider yourself warned.

sorry,, my fault, didn't mean to do that, it got carried away due to my posts. wont happen again

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Quoting Dang24

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Their is a cop at my highschool but the cop was not present in the room while i was questioned and searched then after that i had to write a stateme and then the cop came in and looked at what was found on me then he questioned me (read me my maranda rights first but told me i was not under aresst then told me if i am willing to drop my rights to talk to him i did not know what that exactly ment but i said yes) another thing i never said yes or no that they can search my bag i just said i have a knife in the small pouch and i set my bag on the table and they opened everything

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If they had an inkling that you were carrying drugs or weapons, they can generally conduct a search even without your permission.

And the school can compel you to write a statement about he incident and even discipline you if you do not. Most often this is done before the officer gets involved.

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Quoting tonynewman

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that seems like a slippery slope,, that any regular citizen can hand over drug evidence to a police officer and say I found it on this guys person or purse and that they can be arrested and even convicted in a court of law based on that evidence alone. seems like that would open the door to all sorts of acts of revenge.

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But, that is NOT what happened! This is not a case of Joe Citizen walking into the police department saying he found dope in his friends pants. This is a case of a school administrator conducting a search, finding contraband, and contacting the police. And, the suspect apparently not denying it was present and in his possession.

As with any inquiry, the defense can make all the arguments it wants. They are free to argue that the school administrator planted the dope or brought in his own and called the police because they had an irrational hatred for the defendant.

Let's just all sum it up.

This kid needs to ask his parents for a lawyer. He has a lot at stake. He faces some serious charges and also expulsion from school. These charges are serious enough that they may result in adult criminal charges.....

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Quoting PandorasBox

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Let's just all sum it up.

This kid needs to ask his parents for a lawyer. He has a lot at stake. He faces some serious charges and also expulsion from school. These charges are serious enough that they may result in adult criminal charges.....

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This is my first offence i have never been introuble with the law before or any school trouble up untill now and i am pretty sure we wont get a lawyer because of the cost so i think my parents would take the free one

Something you don't understand.

1. The Public Defender is not "free" - there is a fee.
2. The Public Defender being appointed to your case depends on your parents income....not that they don't want to pay for a lawyer.

Another thing you are missing: You are facing SERIOUS charges. Weapons. Drug Possession. Drug Dealing. All on school property. The amount of stuff you had, the knowledge you had...you are not a novice. You have been doing this for a while.

There is a chance of you being charged in adult court...which means adult time.

These are serious charges, you want to hope that you would be charged as a juvi. Sometimes a public defender is given to you at a reduce rate,other times it's free. I used a public Defender and it was free of charge,I also know others who got a free public defender. It does depend on your parents income,different places have different policies.

Isn't carrying a weapon on school grounds a federal offense, if they decide to make it one ?

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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Isn't carrying a weapon on school grounds a federal offense, if they decide to make it one ?

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Unlikely. Had he had an actual gun on school property, perhaps. It wasn't illegal for him to have the pocket knife. Just illegal to have it where it had it. No?

Edit - I am not trying to diminish the seriousness of the charges facing the OP. As everyone else has said, he ABSOLUTELY NEEDS a lawyer for this.

PADriver13, this is what i was thinking about. Being expelled from school is one thing, but what the OP is facing is much more serious.

"Congress therefore amended the Gun Free Schools Act by making it a part of No Child Left Behind, which required schools to adopt a "zero tolerance" policy towards weapons in schools in order to get federal funding. This means that any school who receives funding from Title IV of No Child Left Behind must expel any student that brings a weapon to campus - See more at: http://education.findlaw.com/school-safety/school-searches-and-weapons.html#sthash.5SExoFbH.dpuf"

Don't get me started on "Gun Free Zones". That's a bunch of feel-good liberal symantics. "Gun Free Zones" didn't help prevent Columbine and signage doesn't deter criminal behavior. /rant.

Reading your link: "Finally, zero tolerance policies can be difficult to enforce. Many students who are expelled under a "zero tolerance policy" do not realize that they are bringing a weapon to school, or may do so for innocent reasons. For example, students sometimes bring small knives to school for a variety of reasons without realizing that knives are also weapons banned under Title IV of No Child Left Behind. These students' expulsions can then be challenged, and may be reversed upon review"

This is why it's highly unlikely. It is a reasonable argument to make that OP caries a pocket knife with him routinely, EXCEPT when in school, and on this particular day, forgot he had the knife with him. This is why "zero tolerance" is such a load of crap. Zero tolerance suggests that the details don't matter and that one size fits all. As we all truly know, one size does not fit all.

I don't think he forgot he had the knife on him......

Unless he forgot the boxcutter, the pot, the scale, the other drug parapernelia too......

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Quoting PandorasBox

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I don't think he forgot he had the knife on him......

Unless he forgot the boxcutter, the pot, the scale, the other drug parapernelia too......

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I agree he didn't forget. But a reasonable argument could still be made that a male who carries a pocket knife regularly "forgot" on that specific day. And because that is a reasonable argument, zero tolerance policies are ineffective. Was simply referring to the question about the charges being trumped up to federal. OP needs a lawyer plain and simple. These are serious charges.

I know I've worked retail....got to the airport once after work to go on vacation and couldn't figure out what was setting off the metal detectors. And yeah, working a job where I had to put my lipstick in a pocket or go all day without replenishing it, it almost made the laundry.....

So if he'd had a (legitimate) job and a box cutter in his pocket or jacket...easy to understand....doing family chores that required a knife.....understandable and easy to prove. That is where Zero Tolerance is ridiculous....

"they found a butterfly knife,boxcutter,scale,pipe,rolling papers,2 lighters,matches, eye drops,a metal pen cap i use to kill roaches and about 6grams in a candle jar some weed was baged up in the jar (an eighth which is 3.5 grams)."

He has no regard for Laws or rules at 15. Would hate to see what he is like at 17, if he lives that long. His parents need to make him get a job and earn the money to pay the attorney, court costs, etc.

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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"they found a butterfly knife,boxcutter,scale,pipe,rolling papers,2 lighters,matches, eye drops,a metal pen cap i use to kill roaches and about 6grams in a candle jar some weed was baged up in the jar (an eighth which is 3.5 grams)."

He has no regard for Laws or rules at 15. Would hate to see what he is like at 17, if he lives that long. His parents need to make him get a job and earn the money to pay the attorney, court costs, etc.

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I do have regards for laws and rules i just ****ed up bad and it may seem like i probably dont care but im scared shitless that i can be trialed as an adult and the wait for the letter of my court date is killing me i have talked to some people i know that have been charged with possetion and drug paraphanilia and all he got was probation and he had a felony and was caught for the samething before he was caught again selling he's the same age as me

Ok....

How do you feel now? Scared shitless? Can't breathe? Can't sleep?

Once you are done with court and your sentencing...take those feelings....and know how you never want to experience them again.

You're young. You have a chance to turn your life around.

If your parents have not gotten you a lawyer, ask them for help. Get a job...even fast food. Avoid your druggie friends. Start studying for a GED. Get rid of any remaining drugs/pipes, etc., - turn them over to your lawyer. Join Narcotics Anonymous.

We cannot tell you if you WILL be tried as an adult. The crystal ball is out being cleaned.

What we can tell you is that you CAN be tried as an adult.

You'll find out when the letter comes. And if you're scared? Well, that's one of the consequences you have to deal with when you violate the law.

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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Isn't carrying a weapon on school grounds a federal offense, if they decide to make it one ?

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No. It is not a federal offense as state laws adequately cover weapons at school.

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Quoting Mercy&Grace

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PADriver13, this is what i was thinking about. Being expelled from school is one thing, but what the OP is facing is much more serious.

"Congress therefore amended the Gun Free Schools Act by making it a part of No Child Left Behind, which required schools to adopt a "zero tolerance" policy towards weapons in schools in order to get federal funding. This means that any school who receives funding from Title IV of No Child Left Behind must expel any student that brings a weapon to campus - See more at: http://education.findlaw.com/school-safety/school-searches-and-weapons.html#sthash.5SExoFbH.dpuf"

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Moving to expel a student is not a guarantee that he or she WILL be expelled. Many students who bring weapons of one kind or another end up back at the school after going through the process. It depends upon the weapon, prior offenses, circumstances, etc.

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Quoting PADriver13

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I agree he didn't forget. But a reasonable argument could still be made that a male who carries a pocket knife regularly "forgot" on that specific day. And because that is a reasonable argument, zero tolerance policies are ineffective. Was simply referring to the question about the charges being trumped up to federal. OP needs a lawyer plain and simple. These are serious charges.

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Of course, if he regularly carried it with him, he also would have been expected to leave it at home every day he went to school. He'd have to argue that he brought it pretty much all the time to make that "reasonable," I suspect.

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Quoting PandorasBox

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So if he'd had a (legitimate) job and a box cutter in his pocket or jacket...easy to understand....doing family chores that required a knife.....understandable and easy to prove. That is where Zero Tolerance is ridiculous....

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Not too many jobs require a butterfly knife. They're also not practical as a tool, so I just don't see him making a reasonable argument to defend his possession of it.

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Quoting Dang24

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I do have regards for laws and rules i just ****ed up bad and it may seem like i probably dont care but im scared shitless that i can be trialed as an adult and the wait for the letter of my court date is killing me i have talked to some people i know that have been charged with possetion and drug paraphanilia and all he got was probation and he had a felony and was caught for the samething before he was caught again selling he's the same age as me

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The offenses you face are commonplace among career criminals and those who spend much of their lives in prison. As stated, you CAN turn your life around. Consider this a wake up call! Get clean and sober, change friends, focus on an education, and start using your head.

On a side note, it is highly unlikely that you will be charged as an adult since you do not appear to fit the criteria.

Thank you and i will turn my life around this was an absolute wake up call for me and for school im not to sure if im being expelled yet right now im doing a 9 day suspension and on february the 2nd is when i have a district school hearing to decide whether they take the recommendation of the principal of a long suspension which is 11 days to 4 semesters or just expell me

Couple thoughts for you to discuss with your parents.

- If you are expelled for a year, can you take classes online?
- Once your suspension/expulsion is up, can you change schools? This would allow you to avoid druggie friends (and avoid temptation), and build friendships with better people, in a new school.

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Quoting PandorasBox

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Couple thoughts for you to discuss with your parents.

- If you are expelled for a year, can you take classes online?
- Once your suspension/expulsion is up, can you change schools? This would allow you to avoid druggie friends (and avoid temptation), and build friendships with better people, in a new school.

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I got a 2 year suspension and they told me I could go to a different district I already started school the 13th of February. Also I still haven't had a call or letter or heard anything at all from the state on my court date