Stuck with Car I Don't Own, No Title

My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: WA

So I think I finally did something really dumb. Can't believe I'm writing this.

Found an ad on craigslist. Stopped by the residence. Test drove car. Mechanical quirk but very driveable. Guy said he paid $1500 cash to some old guy two months ago. The car had been in the old guy's yard, not being driven. I call pick n tow and they quote $300. Said I'd take it for $500. He finally broke down and said he just needed to get rid of it because he had a ticket for leaving it on the street and nobody wants it for less than $800.

He shows me bill of sale he got from the owner. It listed $350 as sale price. I ask why and he said the guy was trying to save him taxes. He looked pretty upset and said he was losing a lot of money. I looked up the vin on NICB.org. Not sure how legit that is. But it said it was a salvage title from 9 years ago but hasn't been reported stolen. So I figured the guy listed $350 on bill of sale and took $1500 cash to cover up scamming the guy on the salvage title. (Again don't know too much about this stuff obviously) .

Then the guy goes in the house and brings out an application to transfer title from the dmv. He said the owner didn't have the title and had to request a new title or quick title, can't remember. But he told me he didnt pay the fee to complete it and has been trying to get rid of it. So the late fee comes up to $150.

I figure this is really shady so I take it for $100 but will give him $50 now and say I want to get it inspected and give him another $50 if I buy it. He says no, until I walk away, then he says ok fine it needs to go, and he looks upset, says it's his parents house and they want it gone too. He has no insurance so I call my insurance company and insure it, saying I want to buy it but need to drive it to a mechanic (stupid) after they check the vin.

I get home and see that the application to transfer title is stamped with some bogus looking company posing as a licensing department. I google it and the phone number just rings and the website doesn't exist when clicking on the link. I don't know how I missed this. I was just thinking I wasn't buying it but putting a petty deposit down until inspection was complete. I didn't sign anything and this other guy didn't sign any of the documents. Also, the transfer application says it expired weeks ago. And in the glove compartment is a paper receipt from that place that seems to be a bogus company that can handle these title and registration documents.
Oh, and the odometer doesn't work and the miles are extremely low for an old car! I didn't notice this test driving.

Anyways, I don't want anything to do with this car now but this guy doesn't want it back and said consider it sold. He said he didn't live at that house so I don't want to just drop it off there. And my name is probably linked to the vin now from my insurance company. So I call my insurance company next morning and say I decided not to buy it and that title was never transferred. Its at an auto shop to be inspected tomorrow.

I'm not sure what to make of all this. The title transfer application and bill of sale seems fraudulent to me. Its not signed by the guy who gave it to me and his info is not on the documents. I'm only out $50 so not worried about that part.

I don't know who owns this vehicle and what to do with it. Don't want legal problems.

What should I do?

I would call the police and explain the situation to them. You suspect that there might be something off about the car, so that would be a wise move.

As llworking suggests, you can check with the police to verify that the car hasn't been reported stolen.

You can take the title to the DMV, explain that you have doubts about its validity, and see if they find it acceptable for transfer. If you were in fact given a valid conveyance of title at the agreed price, then you concerns that the DMV might not accept it are not going to get you out of the contract. If you were not given a valid conveyance of title even with payment of the disclosed late fee, the car still belongs to somebody else and you can demand a proper conveyance of title or a refund. I suspect that you'll find yourself in that latter category.

How much have you paid so far? If you've only paid $50 and the guy isn't pressing for more money or to get the car back, the situation sounds incredibly fishy.

I called the dmv and they confirmed that the name of the person who sold the car to the kid I got the car from is not the registered owner. They can't tell me who the owner is though. But it's not been reported stolen. That would explain why he didn't have the title. So now this kid and I don't know who the owner is. He said he's looking for the phone number and address of this other guy. Sounds like he bought the car from a scammer who never registered the car after he bought it from someone else maybe. I can't register it until I find out who it is.

If you have a bill of sale and a person (kid) that you could match to that bill of sale, then start parting the vehicle out and make some money off it. If the car is reported stolen while in your possession, send the police after the kid that you bought it from.

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Quoting lickitySplit143

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I can't register it until I find out who it is.

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That might not be completely true.

It appears that WA allows a vehicle purchaser to post a bond if there is a cloud on the title.

See the bond form at:

http://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/420054.pdf

I suggest you take the bond form to the DMV and explain your title issues and ask about the bond.

Might cost you a couple of hundred dollars to get good title but you bought a somewhat drivable car for $50.

If you can get good title you'll make money on it.

Otherwise, turn it over to a wrecking yard and hope they take it without title.

By the way, for $50 I'd have bought the car, too.

Ok. New information. So I got contact info for the person whose name is supposedly on the title and originally sold the car. When I called, he denied having anything to do with the car, but he told me his name, which is not the name on the title. The guy who gave me the car then said that that name was on the craigslist ad. So he called him and denied it to him to and gave him a different name.
So I told him I was going to call the police. Then he started texting both of us, saying they have the title, so please don't call the police. They gave us an address to pick up the title. It was some auto shop with someone with a heavy accent. He said the owner brought the car in for repairs and decided not to keep it and left the title there.
This still seems shady because the guy who gave me the car said he bought it at someone's house and said they didn't know where the title was.
Anyway, the auto shop filled out a report of sale and said if I want the car then I have to register it within two weeks or pay a late fee.

My concern is how do I know whether there's a lien on the title because it might have been used as collateral? Maybe that's why the auto shop has the title and the supposed owner wants nothing to do with anybody? And why is the auto shop doing the report of sale and not the owner?
If there is a lien, will I inherit the lien and be liable for a debt or have to deal with someone repossessing the car? Wouldn't someone have to tell me about it for it not to be considered fraud?

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And the vin is missing from the driver's door. The one through the windshield looks fake to me, just something weird about it.

I'm really about to ditch this thing in a parking lot or call the cops lol

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Quoting lickitySplit143

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If there is a lien, will I inherit the lien and be liable for a debt or have to deal with someone repossessing the car?

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A lien would likely be on record with the DMV. If there is one you wouldn't be liable for the debt you just wouldn't be able to sell the car unless you lied and cheated like everybody else who was involved with it.

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Quoting lickitySplit143

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Wouldn't someone have to tell me about it for it not to be considered fraud?

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So what? You've already bought the car under shady circumstances. What difference does one more make.

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Quoting lickitySplit143

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And the vin is missing from the driver's door. The one through the windshield looks fake to me, just something weird about it.

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There are other places on the car where the VIN is stamped. You could probably find that out online or ask an inspector at the DMV.

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Quoting lickitySplit143

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I'm really about to ditch this thing in a parking lot or call the cops lol

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I'd leave the cops out of it. The last thing you need is your name on a police report involving this car.

I'd go with ditching it in a parking lot if you don't want to deal with it properly.

I nevet agreed to buy it. I took the car to have it inspected and the guy doesn't want it back. The $50 was a a deposit/rent until I returned it. But he said found the title after I said the cops might have to get involved and had the title holders put mt name on a new report of sale but I haven't signed anything. Plus the title holders (the auto shop) aren't the owners because they said the original seller's name is on the title. So why are they doing the report of sale? I wasn't even there. This is what the college kid told me. I called the shop to verify the story.

You have told us that you haven't even purchased the car. Get your $50 back from the kid, give him the keys, and move on with your life.

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Quoting Mr. Knowitall

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You have told us that you haven't even purchased the car. Get your $50 back from the kid, give him the keys, and move on with your life.

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from what I read, OP picked up the car at a house the seller does not live at and the seller has refused to accept the return of the car. I presume the OP has no idea where the seller lives and he doesn't want to just drop it off in front of the house where he picked it up from.

I can think of a garage where he might leave it....

The problem is the shop filed a report of sale with my info because the kid gave it to them. And the bill of sale has $350. I paid only $50. No buyer info is on the bill of sale and it's two months old.

I know the address of the kid. He's legit. The shop sold an abandoned customer car under the owner's name and listed the shop's address on the bill of sale. Somehow the kid bought it from craigslist at someone's residence, not the shop's or owner's address. So I'm guessing a curbstoner bought the car from the shop, posed as the owner, and flipped the car to the kid for a profit without leaving info identitying himself.

I need to know if I legitmately bought the car and whether the shop legally sold the car. The documents are not accurate and sloppy.

I don't believe for a minute that the kid gave up the car for $50 if he paid the garage $1,500. I also find it implausible that another person between this mechanic and the person who let you take the car for $50 and doesn't want it back, yet the garage said nothing about this mystery person when you discussed the car with them.

I think the big problem here is that you want to have it both ways -- you want to pretend that you didn't buy the car, but you also want to get clear title to the car. Pick your poison.

If you want the car, you can see what happens when you register it, accepting that you may encounter problems while registering it or if somebody later claims fraud or theft. If you don't want the car, go to the DMV and point out that you did not buy the car from the repair shop and that their filing is fraudulent, and see what they tell you.

In a sense, yes, I want it both ways. Meaning I'll take the car if it was legally sold and most likely sell it to a junk yard; and if not then I think the kid should be given back his $1500 because I think he was scammed and got scared when I mentioned the police and shady paperwork work, so he wants it off his hands.

I was mostly interested in the legality of the transactions and documents involved. I thought I could get more informative answers about consumer and business law This is, after all, EXPERTlaw. If posters would like to chuck this up as I'm unscrupulous and annoying and say, well see what happens. Well, that's fine. There's some details about the bill of sale I mentioned that were not addressed.

I still think it's a good post that other viewers can learn from as this story develops. A lot of people encounter scams and difficulty registering vehicles because of transactions not being conducted properly and legally.

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Quoting lickitySplit143

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In a sense, yes, I want it both ways. Meaning I'll take the car if it was legally sold and most likely sell it to a junk yard; and if not then I think the kid should be given back his $1500 because I think he was scammed and got scared when I mentioned the police and shady paperwork work, so he wants it off his hands.

I was mostly interested in the legality of the transactions and documents involved. I thought I could get more informative answers about consumer and business law This is, after all, EXPERTlaw. If posters would like to chuck this up as I'm unscrupulous and annoying and say, well see what happens. Well, that's fine. There's some details about the bill of sale I mentioned that were not addressed.

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I think we've covered all the ins and outs of your predicament and now the only thing left to do is go to the DMV and play it out.

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Quoting lickitySplit143

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A lot of people encounter scams and difficulty registering vehicles because of transactions not being conducted properly and legally.

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And it's often their own fault because THEY are the ones who think they are putting one over on somebody else.

Kinda like the guy who posted here about giving another guy $50 and taking the car home without good title.