What Happens if You Ignore a Parent's Instruction Not to Contact Their Child

My question involves restraining orders in the State of: Michigan

I was wondering if this letter my family and I received from my girlfriend's parents have any legal grounds. I am 17 and am going to college soon, so I started making plans for my future involving moving in with my girlfriend when she turns 18. Her parents did not like that and got angry when my parents did not see anything wrong with her moving in with me. So they sent a letter to my family and I which said this:

Do not, under any circumstances, have any contact with anyone in our family, including *my girlfriend's name*, from the moment you receive this notice at all times forward.

Then it had their signatures at the bottom. None from a lawyer or judge and it looks like it was drafted in Microsoft Word in around 10 minutes because my father's name was misspelled. Does this letter have any legality to it? Does it prevent me from talking to my girlfriend at school? I haven't harassed or abused her in any way and she doesn't agree with her parents' actions.

Thanks in advance.

The answer is both yes and no.

It's not a legally binding document in the sense that it was issued by a court. However, as long as your girlfriend is under 18, she is under the care and control of her parents, and that means they can control EVERYTHING she does. If you and/or your family continue to make contact with her, they can quite legally forbid her to see you or talk to you in or out of school; they can escort her to and from and even through school; they can require that she go nowhere except school including any after school or weekend activities; and there won't be a single thing you can do about it.

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Quoting cbg

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The answer is both yes and no.

It's not a legally binding document in the sense that it was issued by a court. However, as long as your girlfriend is under 18, she is under the care and control of her parents, and that means they can control EVERYTHING she does. If you and/or your family continue to make contact with her, they can quite legally forbid her to see you or talk to you in or out of school; they can escort her to and from and even through school; they can require that she go nowhere except school including any after school or weekend activities; and there won't be a single thing you can do about it.

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Do they have any legal grounds if I ignore this message and communicate with her when they're not around?

Yes.

You REALLY don't want to what you're suggesting.

You'd be simply proving their point.

Are you asking, can they have you arrested? Probably not. Although it's possible that they might be able to get a restraining order. I haven't looked up the laws of your state but it's not completely outside the realm of possibility.

However, you need to get it through your skull that they can QUITE LEGALLY make life a living hell for your girlfriend, including having a parent or family member ATTEND CLASSES with her to see that she doesn't talk to anyone they don't want her to. They can ground her. They can take the door off her bedroom. They can leave her with a mattress on the floor and two changes of weather appropriate clothing, and prohibit her from going anywhere but school and home. They can take away her cell phone, her computer, her tablet, and any other electronic devices, and require that she do her homework in the living room where they can monitor her internet usage and make sure she doesn't contact you. And it will be 100% legal and the law will not do a thing to stop them.

if you manage to end up with a restraining order against you, many colleges will not accept you.

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Quoting TC611

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Do they have any legal grounds if I ignore this message and communicate with her when they're not around?

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how old is the girlfriend now?

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Quoting jk

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how old is the girlfriend now?

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She'll be 17 in less than a month, so she can leave the house as she pleases because a 17 year old is not considered a minor in Michigan. Just wanna make sure that if we hangout that they can't file charges against me.

It sounds like a polite way of warning you the next step will be a restraining order or arrest for trespass, either of which will haunt background checks for life.

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Quoting Disagreeable

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It sounds like a polite way of warning you the next step will be a restraining order or arrest for trespass, either of which will haunt background checks for life.

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In Michigan a PPO requires a genuine threat to be approved by a judge. I also don't go on their property, I talk to her at school.

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Quoting TC611

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She'll be 17 in less than a month, so she can leave the house as she pleases because a 17 year old is not considered a minor in Michigan. Just wanna make sure that if we hangout that they can't file charges against me.

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well, sort of. She is still a minor in Michigan but there since the juvie courts divest themselves of 17 year olds, they (the courts) cannot control her. If she stays with her parents, they do still have full control of her. They can still engage the court's assistance in keeping you away from her.

Of course she can walk out the door and the police won't bring her home. That doesn't mean her parents can't drag her ass back home though.

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Quoting jk

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well, sort of. She is still a minor in Michigan but there since the juvie courts divest themselves of 17 year olds, they (the courts) cannot control her. If she stays with her parents, they do still have full control of her. They can still engage the court's assistance in keeping you away from her.

Of course she can walk out the door and the police won't bring her home. That doesn't mean her parents can't drag her ass back home though.

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They also can't be on my property without my permission.

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Quoting TC611

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They also can't be on my property without my permission.

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well, actually, unless you prohibit them from being on your property, they can but are you living on your own or do you live with your parents?


but what does that have to do with the issue?

It not meant to be an act of defiance it's to save her from mentally unstable parents who are emotionally abusive. Even if courts were involved I have several adults who would back my statement, including school counselors and teachers.

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Quoting TC611

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It not meant to be an act of defiance it's to save her from mentally unstable parents who are emotionally abusive. Even if courts were involved I have several adults who would back my statement, including school counselors and teachers.

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meaningless, absolutely meaningless. If she is in danger, cps should be called in.

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Quoting jk

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well, actually, unless you prohibit them from being on your property, they can but are you living on your own or do you live with your parents?


but what does that have to do with the issue?

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I live at home but my parents do not trust them and would not allow them on the property if they tried to physically take her back.

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Quoting jk

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meaningless, absolutely meaningless. If she is in danger, cps should be called in.

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It'd be pointless considering she can just escape them if needed in a month. Involving CPS and having a long, drawn out investigation would be even more emotionally wearing on her.

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Quoting TC611

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I live at home but my parents do not trust them and would not allow them on the property if they tried to physically take her back.

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so you admit you and your parents would willingly assist a minor in defying her parents?

so, when the parents show up at your doorstep with a cop with them demanding you relinquish the child you are going to say.......?

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Quoting TC611

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It'd be pointless considering she can just escape them if needed in a month. Involving CPS and having a long, drawn out investigation would be even more emotionally wearing on her.

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then apparently she is not actually in danger.

and again, while the courts cannot make her return home, that doesn't mean her parents can't.

but hey, you think you have all the answers. You go ahead and stick with your plan. Let us know how that works out for ya.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Yes.

You REALLY don't want to what you're suggesting.

You'd be simply proving their point.

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Cutting off communication with her would be extremely harmful to her because she is quite emotionally unstable and my family and I are the only ones truly supporting her.

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Quoting jk

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so you admit you and your parents would willingly assist a minor in defying her parents?

so, when the parents show up at your doorstep with a cop with them demanding you relinquish the child you are going to say.......?

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then apparently she is not actually in danger.

and again, while the courts cannot make her return home, that doesn't mean her parents can't.

but hey, you think you have all the answers. You go ahead and stick with your plan. Let us know how that works out for ya.

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Being judgmental when you don't know the entire situation doesn't help anything. I did the research and nor a court or the police have the authority to force her home. Her parents also cannot "drag" her home if she's on property where they're not allowed.

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TC611;860251]Cutting off communication with her would be extremely harmful to her because she is quite emotionally unstable and my family and I are the only ones truly supporting her.

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so you say but guess what, your opinion and $7 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks
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Her parents also cannot "drag" her home if she's on property where they're not allowed.

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you haven't answered me:

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So, when the parents show up at your doorstep with a cop with them demanding you relinquish the child you are going to say.......?

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and don't say you will tell the parents to go away. If they are escorted by a cop, they are not going to be charged with trespassing.

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Quoting jk

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so you say but guess what, your opinion and $7 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks
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you haven't answered me:

[COLOR=#333333]sand don't say you will tell the parents to go away. If they are escorted by a cop, they are not going to be charged with trespassing.

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A cop isn't going to waste their time when no law has been broken. Also, just because they come with a cop doesn't automatically give them the authority to do as they please.

Didn't Shakespeare write a play about this type of situation?

Or maybe it was a Faulkner novel that I'm thinking of.

Oh give it a rest.

When you're qualified to diagnose mental health conditions, and able to treat the person, come back and talk to us.

Until then, keep your armchair diagnoses out of it.

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Quoting TC611

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A cop isn't going to waste their time when no law has been broken. Also, just because they come with a cop doesn't automatically give them the authority to do as they please.

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Ya want to bet? I know for a fact some cops have done exactly this.

but the parents still have legal control of their 17 yo child.


and yet you have STILL not answered the question.

If she runs away from home and you conceal her from her parents, YOU and your parents can face other criminal charges. BAD idea! Really, REALLY bad!

Most every teenager believes they have "mentally unstable" parents. That's code for, "They don't understand me," or, "They won't let me do what I want to." Sorry, but, as was mentioned if she is being abused or neglected, the people to call are the police or CPS and NOT take her in to your home and risk jail for everyone.

Once again, she is a minor. Her parents control her comings and goings. If they truly don't like you, they can move her to another school, they can home school her, they can take her phone and computer privileges away, and a host of other things. If you want to remain in communication with her surreptitiously at least at school, you had best get any ideas of open defiance or aiding her in her open defiance out of your head. Aiding her in being defiant to her parents probably will get you on the receiving end of a PPO.

Read MCL 721.151 and 721.152 before you get so cocky about what you think you know.

Harboring a runaway. That will get you 3 hots n a cot.

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Quoting TC611

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It not meant to be an act of defiance it's to save her from mentally unstable parents who are emotionally abusive. Even if courts were involved I have several adults who would back my statement, including school counselors and teachers.

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psst, Carl, that doesn't apply once she turns 17. You know, those whacky laws we have with the 17 year olds.

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AIDING OR ABETTING VIOLATIONS OF JUVENILE COURT ORDERS (EXCERPT)
Act 296 of 1968

722.151 Aiding or abetting violations by juveniles, or harboring runaways prohibited.Sec. 1.
No person shall knowingly and wilfully aid or abet a child under the age of 17 years to violate an order of a juvenile court or knowingly and wilfully conceal or harbor juvenile runaways who have taken flight from the custody of the court, their parents or legal guardian.

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Quoting jk

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psst, Carl, that doesn't apply once she turns 17. You know, those whacky laws we have with the 17 year olds.

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For the moment, she's 16.

States like Michigan and, I believe, Texas need to change these loopholes because parents are still legally responsible for the care of the child even if they have zero control.

I feel sorry for this girl if she takes her boyfriend's "advice" and shacks up with him at age 17 ... she'll be suffering for it in a couple of years perhaps when she's a high school dropout and pregnant, and his parents get tired of supporting them and they have to find a seedy section 8 apartment somewhere and live off of welfare. Yeah, I'm cynical - I see this crap every flippin' day, and the stats support this as being more fact than whimsy ... unfortunately.

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Quoting cdwjava

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For the moment, she's 16.

States like Michigan and, I believe, Texas need to change these loopholes because parents are still legally responsible for the care of the child even if they have zero control.

I feel sorry for this girl if she takes her boyfriend's "advice" and shacks up with him at age 17 ... she'll be suffering for it in a couple of years perhaps when she's a high school dropout and pregnant, and his parents get tired of supporting them and they have to find a seedy section 8 apartment somewhere and live off of welfare. Yeah, I'm cynical - I see this crap every flippin' day, and the stats support this as being more fact than whimsy ... unfortunately.

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she turns 17 in less than a month. From the tenor of the OP's posts I believe they intend on waiting to do anything as far as the girl leaving, until after that time.


but I do agree with the rest

I take it he's has gone to learn more for his armchair diagnosis session?

Legally in Michigan, until she is 18, she is a MINOR.

Also, there's that other issue of as long as she lives under her parents roof, it's their house and their rules.

So unless he wants to lose his chance at college, I would suggest don't contact her until she is 18 and no longer living at home.

Sounds like somebody has a little bit of a hero complex going on. This will not end well, but there will be no convincing him of that. See cdwjava's post above for how this turns out...

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Quoting cbg

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However, you need to get it through your skull that they can QUITE LEGALLY make life a living hell for your girlfriend, including having a parent or family member ATTEND CLASSES with her to see that she doesn't talk to anyone they don't want her to.

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Attend classes with her? What high-school teacher would allow this to happen? What teacher would allow some nutcase parent to disrupt a class?

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They can leave her with a mattress on the floor and two changes of weather appropriate clothing.

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I think that might constitute child abuse.

And you'd be wrong in both cases. There's nothing disruptive about having a parent sit in the classroom, and there's no entitlement to a bedstead or more that two changes of clothing.

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Quoting John_28

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Attend classes with her? What high-school teacher would allow this to happen? What teacher would allow some nutcase parent to disrupt a class?



I think that might constitute child abuse.

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You don't have any children, do you? I was not only allowed to sit in on my children's classes but it was offered to me without even asking. My children's teachers enjoyed a parent taking such an interest in their children.


It also caused the other kids in the class to tend to act a bit better as well which is always welcome to a teacher.

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Quoting cbg

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There's nothing disruptive about having a parent sit in the classroom.

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If a student is old enough to be in high school, and the student's parents sit in the class, wouldn't that embarrass the student and ruin that student's concentration in class? And wouldn't that also cause the student to be taunted by classmates? I know what kind of field day my classmates would have had if my parents had sat in my classroom.

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Quoting John_28

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If a student is old enough to be in high school, and the student's parents sit in the class, wouldn't that embarrass the student and ruin that student's concentration in class? And wouldn't that also cause the student to be taunted by classmates? I know what kind of field day my classmates would have had if my parents had sat in my classroom.

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it might and it might actually be the underlying purpose of the parent being there.

your point?

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Quoting John_28

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Attend classes with her? What high-school teacher would allow this to happen? What teacher would allow some nutcase parent to disrupt a class?

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SITTING with a child is hardly "disrupting" the class. As a note, it happens. The school may not even be able to prevent it.

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I think that might constitute child abuse.

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Hardly! The law requires that a child be provided with three hots and a cot, not a four poster bed, three changes of clothing, and three five course meals. There are many children that live in hovels and even vehicles, sleep on a couch, and have three changes of clothes for the week, yet THAT is not "abuse." So, move away from the tough love idea being abuse.

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Quoting John_28

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If a student is old enough to be in high school, and the student's parents sit in the class, wouldn't that embarrass the student and ruin that student's concentration in class?

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The social embarrassment alone is one of the great reasons to do this! Kids tend to surrender after one day of mom or dad sitting in class!

I recall a time when a spoiled brat of a teen was causing problems so mom sat in on her classes for a couple of days ... in her bathrobe, curlers, and pink, fuzzy slippers! Two days of mom in class and with her at lunch talking about the princess's toilet training and training bra experiences at lunch, the teen caved and started following the rules at home. Going with a chil dto school is a time-honored tough love technique that has been practiced since at least the 1970s.

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And wouldn't that also cause the student to be taunted by classmates? I know what kind of field day my classmates would have had if my parents had sat in my classroom.

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And I bet that you would do anything at home to prevent that from happening again!

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Quoting cdwjava

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I recall a time when a spoiled brat of a teen was causing problems so mom sat in on her classes for a couple of days ... in her bathrobe, curlers, and pink, fuzzy slippers! Two days of mom in class and with her at lunch talking about the princess's toilet training and training bra experiences at lunch, the teen caved and started following the rules at home. Going with a chil dto school is a time-honored tough love technique that has been practiced since at least the 1970s.

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I didn't realize that there were teachers and school administrators that were stupid enough to allow their schools and classrooms to be used as a battleground in domestic disputes between students and their parents. I would tell both student and parent to keep their dispute out of my classroom.

And just what would have happened if the teen who was embarrassed and humiliated by mom had violently lashed out at her classmates? We have enough problems with bullying. Now we have teachers and administrators ENCOURAGING humiliation and ostracism?

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Quoting John_28

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I didn't realize that there were teachers and school administrators that were stupid enough to allow their schools and classrooms to be used as a battleground in domestic disputes between students and their parents. I would tell both student and parent to keep their dispute out of my classroom.

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Schools are not closed sanctums. They are there to support the learning process - part of which may include parental involvement. Whether YOU like it or not is entirely irrelevant. You are a child. Children often disagree with the ways of grown ups and their betters. It's the way of the world.

And, you as a teacher may have NO SAY in whether that parent enters your classroom with the student at all. If you were a teacher, you may not like it, but chances are the student will already have been a problem. And, if the administration was okay with it, you'd have to suck it up and teach as normal.

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And just what would have happened if the teen who was embarrassed and humiliated by mom had violently lashed out at her classmates? We have enough problems with bullying. Now we have teachers and administrators ENCOURAGING humiliation and ostracism?

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Then the student who lashed out could face the consequences of her actions. Bottom line is that the student can generally prevent these sorts of tough love actions by their concerned parents by simply following some basic rules at home. While such measures are rare, they can and do occur, and are perfectly lawful and often within the rights of the parents. The parent could also pull the child out of school. Perhaps the child would prefer that mom and dad homeschool her, or send her to another school far away. These are all options.

Parents don't take these actions if the child has not pushed them to this level of participation in their child's life. So, it is entirely within the control of the child whether their parent(s) will attend school with them or not. While rare, in every instance I have seen it used it has been successful in changing behavior. And, in such instances, I have never seen an outburst such as you describe where the child becomes bullied and teased and then feels compelled to lash out.

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Quoting cdwjava

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If you were a teacher, you may not like it, but chances are the student will already have been a problem.

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But what if the problem occurs only at home and not in the classroom? What if the student has no problems whatsoever in my class? Why allow my classroom and other students to be used as pawns in some domestic battle that is none of our business?