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What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
My question involves criminal law for the state of: tennessee - I am representing myself in a felony theft of property case in criminal court due to the fact that I make to much to get a court appointed attorney and don't make enough to pay for the $5,000.00 to $10,000.00 I'm being quoted, but I do have a co-defendant who will have a public defender. Is a public defendant required and can they subpeona any and all witnesses at our request, that relate to this case, no matter what the cost, as long as it is relevant to the case. For example. Could the public defender subpeona an employee of American Express based in New York City to testify to the actual worth of one(1) unactivated pre-paid credit card? Would the state have to pay for any and all cost associated with that witness being brought to court and is there a limit to something like this. I appreciate any help I can get from this forum. Thank you.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
The attorney will seek subpoenas for evidence the attorney believes to be admissible and relevant. In some context a motion may be necessary.
The attorney is not going to be issuing subpoenas to random credit card company employees located in another state. If you want to bring in a witness from another state, you can expect to do that at your expense, through your own lawyer. A Tennessee court has no power to issue a subpoena effective across state lines.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
Does the state have to subpeona any and all witnesses within the state that I request, including expert witnesses? And can you tell me what you might now about finding expert witnesses in Tennesee? Thanks for your help.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
what sort of expert witness are you talking about? This is a theft charge.
and you can subpoena whatever witnesses you wish. Plan on you paying for their services.
as to your friend; no, their attorney does not have to subpoena any and all witnesses your friend suggests. The attorney is the one who determines the course of action in the defense.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
UPC codes, facial recognition, surveillance video, manufacturing costs of pre-paid credit cards(gift cards). Thanks for your help.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
I hope you have deep pockets if you plan on subpoenaing all these people. Many, can charge for professional testimony. The prosecutor is also likely to file a motion regarding your waste of the courts time. Further it is likely you will be hauled in front of the judge to justify each and every subpoena you wish to have issued. They won't play games.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
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lorie42;850934]UPC codes, facial recognition, surveillance video
how does any of that factor into your defense?
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, manufacturing costs of pre-paid credit cards(gift cards).
what difference does this make?
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
She thinks she is going to issue about 100 subpoenas to bury the court in testimony as punishment for her arrest.
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jk
how does any of that factor into your defense?
what difference does this make?
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
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lorie42
Does the state have to subpeona any and all witnesses within the state that I request, including expert witnesses?
You will need to retain and pay your experts, and make sure that their schedules are clear for the dates of their testimony.
You can't force somebody to give expert testimony on your behalf. If you issue a subpoena to somebody who is not a fact witness and has not been retained as an expert, you should expect to be sanctioned by the court.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
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lorie42
can they subpeona any and all witnesses at our request
there is no "our", it is their attorney not yours, their attorney may find the best defense for your co-defendant is to play the "OP did it all" card
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
Arresting officer and DA do not realize that serial numbers are the only way to track merchandise. UPC codes on the merchandise in this case, only point to the manufacturer and can be bought at several retail stores and online. We tried to get this across to the DA at the preliminary in general sessions court, but they think they can convict us on circumstantial evidence. The lawyer I had for the preliminary stated after the hearing that this was the weakest case he had ever seen. Then he asked for $6,000.00 for a retainer for criminal court. The arresting officer and DA are convinced that they know what store this merchandise came from that was found in my co-defendants vehicle, but do not have any evidence to support it. As my lawyer said in the preliminary, they are going on a hunch only. They are trying to bluff a plea bargain out of me and it's not going to happen. Basically, under the way this police department and DA operate, if you are stopped, and anything in your vehicle does not have a receipt for it, they will seize it and try to convict for theft of property. They seized everything down to a dog food bowl and underwear. Still in evidence after 8 months. They would auction it off if they win. Tried to seize my co-defendants truck, only thing that stopped them was the finance company. Thanks for your help.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
depending on what store is involved they may actually have a different UPC than any other store. The larger stores often have models of appliances and such or clothing that appears identical to merchandise sold in other stores but have some very subtle differences. Along with those subtle differences is a different UPC. No idea if that applies to what you stole but just tossing it out there as a possibility of the UPC argument not being all you think it is.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
I suspect that all of the items seized had packaging or tags that indicated recent theft (or purchase) and that is what they are going on. Do they have video or your co-defendant in the store? Any witnesses to you being in the store? Statements as to being in the store or stealing the property? Statements that were proven incorrect (i.e. that show you and/or your co-defendant are liars)?
If all they have is the property alone, then it is a weak case. But, you will need a real attorney to make that case and to counter the witnesses on the stand. Go with the public defender before it's too late! Keep in mind that if you muck this up and you go to jail, you will not be able to argue ineffective counsel - you'll be stuck with the result unless you have grounds for appeal on other grounds and can somehow learn how to write an appeal from behind bars.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
No, none of the items indicate any theft at all. They have general UPC codes that when looked up on the internet, put to numerous store that sell the exact item and online also. There is no video and there are no witnesses. The DA is trying to bluff me into accepting a deal and I will not. Also, I do not qualify for a public defender, so I have no chose but to try to go it alone. I did have an attorney in the general sessions preliminary and he said that it was the weakest case he had ever seen. The problem is, it's in a small town, up in the mountains, and they think they are going roll over someone and get away with it. Thanks for your help.
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I did not steal any of these items. Some that were seized have receipts and some don't. They were all seized because it is a small town up in the mountains of tennesse and they think they can get away with it or drain someone of any money they have by all the court dates, hoping I will accept a deal. I will not accept any deals. All of the UPC's are manufacturers upc's and have been verified. When you type the numbers in online each and every number pulls up numerous stores that sell these items and can be purchased online also.
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I recently went back to this town and purchased something at a local thrift store and kept the receipt and got a general statement from the clerk verifying what it was to show in court that an individual can buy various types of merchandise at even a thrift store. Would I need to subpeona the individual at that thrift store in order to have that evidence admitted in the trial? Thanks.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
That is irrelevant and the prosecutor will likely object to you wasting the courts time.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
The intention would be to show that not everyone drives around with all of their receipts on their person and the arresting officer and the DA really appear to not know that serial numbers and upc's are different and I'm afraid if I can't find a way to introduce that fact into evidence some how, they will be able to convince a jury of that also.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
On cross examination you ask the prosecution witnesses if the UPC represents a specific item from a specific store? If they answer truthfully, or, that they do not know, you ask additional questions designed to capitalize on this lack of knowledge or emphasize the point that the UPC does not identify a specific item.
Subpoenaing the thrift store clerk seems pointless to me.
Look, if you want to avoid jail time you may need to break down and pay for an attorney if you have too much money or income to qualify for a court-appointed one. You could lose not because you are guilty, but that you are not capable of mounting a decent enough defense to cast even reasonable doubt on the state's case. It could be that paying a retainer for an attorney will be enough for the state to back off. If they know it's YOU they have to meet in court, they may not be too concerned.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
I appreciate your comments. I have a co-defendant I was in their vehicle when this occured. They have a court appointed attorney and I was hoping to ride their coat tails at the trial. What they aren't able to get done, I'm hoping I will be able to do. Thanks.
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So I guess you are saying that it is up to the prosecutor to prove a case, even with circumstantial evidence, and my best bet is to dis-credit his lack of direct evidence? Due to the fact that I will not really be able to call any witnesses that are not directly connected to the case. The burden is on the State to prove it's case hopefully. I'm nervous about the people in this small mountain town being gullable to their DA.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
all criminal cases require the prosecution to prove their claim beyond a reasonable doubt (note; not "all" doubt and what is considered reasonable is usually different than many people understand it to be)
are the two of you being tried together?
and one does not discredit a lack of direct evidence. One gives reason to doubt the evidence entered is adequate to prove beyond a reasonable doubt you are guilty. How to do that varies with the specific facts of the trial.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
Can I ask you your opinion on this: Are records of a business(retail merchant), admissable in court, in a theft of property case, without the author of said report being in court as a witness? Without videotape or an eyewitness to a theft, can a report just all of a sudden pops up long after the alleged incident, be used as evidence(the report also does not state that their is video tape or an eyewitness, just a report of an incident). Thanks for your comments.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
they may be admissible. If the defense does not properly object to their admission (if there is valid cause to object), it is likely they will be admitted if the prosecution submits them for admission.
what value they provide is likely limited by proper objections by the defense.
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Without videotape or an eyewitness to a theft, can a report just all of a sudden pops up long after the alleged incident, be used as evidence
sure.
consider this:
you are discovered with this merchandise. They somehow determine the merchant involved. They inquire with the merchant if they are missing the items in question from their inventory. They store investigates and it is discovered they are missing the merchandise you just happen to have. they report this to the police.
as the report of " an incident"
what sort of incident are they referring to?
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
Yes, we were in front of the general seesions judge for the preliminary and are scheduled for the same date and time for the grand jury readout, so I assume that we will be tried together in criminal court. Without any direct evidence(video, eye-witnesses, or serial numbers), can enough circumstantial evidence amount to a conviction and might it be better to waive a jury trial and have a judge hear it? Is a judge more likely to know what reasonable doubt should be? Thanks for your comments.
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They are saying that items similar to what was found in vehicle were stolen. Similar but not exact. Are they trying to show a pattern and is a pattern enough to prove that said items in vehicle that do not exactly match in description, are stolen?
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
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lorie42
Yes, we were in front of the general seesions judge for the preliminary and are scheduled for the same date and time for the grand jury readout, so I assume that we will be tried together in criminal court. Without any direct evidence(video, eye-witnesses, or serial numbers), can enough circumstantial evidence amount to a conviction and might it be better to waive a jury trial and have a judge hear it? Is a judge more likely to know what reasonable doubt should be? Thanks for your comments.
I wouldnt count on a common trial based on your statements. All that means is the prosecution does not have to present the same evidence twice but change the names involved.
preliminary; same thing.
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can enough circumstantial evidence amount to a conviction
yep.
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might it be better to waive a jury trial and have a judge hear it? Is a judge more likely to know what reasonable doubt should be?
things such as that are explained to juries. I was referring to the typical person on the street. determining which would be better is not something easy to decide and surely not something I could answer for you.
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lorie42
They are saying that items similar to what was found in vehicle were stolen. Similar but not exact. Are they trying to show a pattern and is a pattern enough to prove that said items in vehicle that do not exactly match in description, are stolen?
similar like in they are missing shirts and you had shirts or they are missing some particular brand and style of shirt without a specific color and you have shirts that fit that description?
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
We have items that would be a specific department like say housewares and they have items missing that are not specific but are similar only in the fact that they come from the same department. Once again, there are no serial numbers on any of the items and no video or witnesses. As I said in another message, we could have bought these items at numerous stores, the UPC is manufacturer specific only. It has been verified. These items could have been bought at a thrift store, a flea market, from an individual on craigslist, etc., etc.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
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lorie42
We have items that would be a specific department like say housewares and they have items missing that are not specific but are similar only in the fact that they come from the same department. Once again, there are no serial numbers on any of the items and no video or witnesses. As I said in another message, we could have bought these items at numerous stores, the UPC is manufacturer specific only. It has been verified. These items could have been bought at a thrift store, a flea market, from an individual on craigslist, etc., etc.
so when you told them where you got them legally, their response was.......?
I mean, the simplest and cheapest means to defend an innocent person in such a situation is to prove you obtained them legally. So, just prove to them you obtained them legally and this should all be over.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
We produced some receipts for some of the items. Others, we did not have receipts. They did not care. They seized everyting in the vehicle down to a dog food bowl and dog food that the dog was using. They tried to seize and keep the vehicle, had it not been financed, they would have not released it. I have them figured out. If they arrest you and find anything in your vehicle that they can say might be of probable to seize they will and will auction it off if you are not able to fight back. We would still be in jail right now if we had not of bailed out with borrowed money from family. This DA is bluffing that we will not be able to afford to keep driving 2 hours back to his county every 30 days for another court date until this thing comes to an end. All that is going on in this county, is the attempt to collect revenue by any means necessary with the police as their enforcers. They don't even have to have one shred of evidence in this game. If they break us financially, and we have to accept a deal to end the nightmare, then they get to keep the seized property and sell it off. I'm afraid this goes on alot all over this country and if you aren't able to afford to play the game(attornies), you lose.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
I don't care what the cops think. This is beyond them now. Providing proof to the prosecutor is where it is now and if you have proof and they ignore it, abuse of process or malicious prosecution comes to mind but excuse me for having the feeling that you really cannot prove you purchased the items since you didn't actually purchase them.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
WHY would the police even begin to think that items found on a random car stop were stolen? What do you think gave them the idea that the items might have been stolen?
Sorry, but the police don't just start looking through your possessions and accusing you of stealing them. SOMETHING got them suspicious.
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Re: What Witnesses and Evidence Must a Public Defender Subpoena
The arresting officer actually told my lawyer and my co-defendants lawyer, with the DA present, that he believed that we were part of a national crime ring that was sending money overseas for terrorism or something far-fetched. The DA is running with a spaced out cops delusional ideas. It's a small town up in the mountains of tennesee and they have nothing better to do there than to dream up nonsense to make their days more exciting. Typical small town mentality. It's very sad. It's go to show that we need to pyschologically screen anyone trying to be in law enforcement or the court system. It's really out of hand.