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Denied Legal Counsel in a Criminal Case

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  • 11-16-2014, 09:05 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    The calendar entries indicate that the petition for a court-appointed lawyer was denied. One would thus expect that the order issued on the petition was an order of denial.

    It looks like the issue of counsel was resolved by the prosecutor's stipulation to no jail time. If there is no chance of jail time, there is no right to a court-appointed lawyer under the U.S. Constitution.
    Quote:

    Quoting free9man
    View Post
    So it sounds like you pissed off the judge by refusing to show him respect by saying the word sir.

    As you note, when you're in court, you normally refer to the judge as "Your Honor" or "Judge", not "sir". If our OP was berated, supposedly for not saying "sir", it was not because he lacked alternatives. Odds are he behaved badly.
    Quote:

    Quoting free9man
    The plea you entered sounds like an Alford plea, from Alford v. NC. It has nothing to do with whether you can be charged with something. If he was not familiar with Alford, that is kinda scary for a sitting judge.

    More likely, he used the wrong name and the judge didn't know what case he was attempting to reference. If he was referencing Alford, and there was sufficient evidence of guilt to support the plea, that's treated as a guilty plea.
  • 11-16-2014, 10:02 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    Wow. I got nothin'.

    (Except that whole "I'm going to paint that judge and he can't do anything to me" thing)
  • 11-17-2014, 05:38 AM
    Georgia1977
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    The whole thing has bugged me all this time, it like I have had a feeling this whole time something was not normal with this court judge. I have heard others tell me they had weird stuff like this happen with the same judge.
    I never did fill out any forms a second time or anything for counsel, I filled them out the first time and the paper was given back to me saying I was approved, the judge stated I was denied legal counsel for the sole reason of me "not having a job". There was zero evidence, I did not match any of the suspect's description, I was not on the store camera anywhere...the car I was in was a good 500 feet from the store (it was a parking lot that has about 12 different stores in it), no one from the store even said I did it, I do not remember anyone telling me they was a attorney or anything I just remember a lady telling me if i say a name vs nc I would not be able to be charged with anything...I was told it was not a plea of guilt either...and thats why I said it. The court employees recognized the name and court case but the judge did not. I have tried my best to remember the name because I always wanted to look it up. The judge also "court ordered" me to have a job just because I sought legal counsel since I did not have a job. I have also looked every where possible to see anywhere that states I have to say anything other than guilty or not guilty during a plea hearing and all I find is that I do not have to say anything else. Even the "court ordered" anger management classes make no sense because I talked to the man as calmly as I could and to go as far as even arrested me for me saying "not guilty" and threaten to keep me in the isolation room for 6 months if I do not plead guilty...it's just insane. I did do 38 days in their "isolation" room straight..only being let out to shower and then maybe 2 hrs a week to "exercise". As far as I know I was on a "no visitation" list the whole time because I was in "isolation". I was not in isolation for breaking any rules or anything...I had a zero incident track record at the jail. A few guards had even talked to me thru the window asking why I was not allowed in population....so my guess is there was no reason listed on their computer. Hell I was not even told the names of the pills I was being given every 6 or so hrs..I just know one was lithium.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now one of my probation violation hearings I remember part of, it was after the 38 days in isolation, the lady that brings pills had came early in the morning and told me she had up'd the dosage of one of the pills (I think she said it was a lithium alternative) and gave me some reasoning behind it but I forget her reasoning. I took the pills...about 30 minutes later every thing was hazey, I do not even remember going to the court room just remember being on the wood bench to the side of the other court benchs and being in cuffs and the belt of chains and the probation officer was there talking to the judge...then I remember being given my belongings and told I was put back on probation. Pretty much I have no memory of the probation hearing that time except for what I stated.

    I was in that court room before when one of my family members had to go there, I was just going with them for support or whatever. Well I remember a black kid about 16 or 17 there with his mom. This same judge was hearing the cases. He was on school bus going to school and liked one of the girls so he decided to just go up and inform her that he liked her and was wondering if she would go on a date with him to the movies the following weekend. Apprently this was seen as sexual harassment, the judge ordered the kid to no longer be allowed on any of the school buses and would be on 12 months probation and he would have to keep perfect attendence and keep his grades up or violate his probation..I believe judge said something about if he was late to class too many times could violate his probation also. I remember this good because of what happened next....the mother spoke up and gave the judge a piece of her mind...she stated how she is a single mother that works during the mornings and stated how all her son did was harmlessly asking a girl he liked out on a date to the movies and the mother asked the judge how does he plan on her child getting to and from school without riding the bus. I do not know if what the judge did there was normal or not or if the fact the girl was white had anything to do with it....the mother brought up the fact that the girl in question was white and her son was black....she also brought up the fact that the school itself had not banned her son off the bus and how there was no prior incidents between her son and the girl. I believe there was talk back and forth with the judge about the girl having the same homeroom class and the judge saying they could not be seen in same classroom together.

    - - - Updated - - -

    After my last reply I went to do alil searching and ran across another's post on the fayette counties' newspaper (makes me think I should now try to seek out others who have had run ins with this judge). Here is what it says (from 2010).

    "Recently a young man, both a life guard and child entertainer, was arrested in Fayette County State Court of Georgia when responding to a minor traffic citation of less than 20 mph over the speed limit. He, a Jew, was arrested and charged with failure to appear, although he was on the court docket and on time before Judge W. Fletcher Sams, State Court Judge, Fayette County, Georgia.
    His arrest followed his demonstrating that he knew the distinction between a corporate entity and a human being. For demonstrating this in “his court”, Griffin Circuit Judge W. Fletcher Sams had the Fayette County resident arrested, held without bond, and he was deprived of the opportunity to make or receive phone calls and to speak with his family or receive council of his choosing.
    Falsely charged with failure to appear (FTA), his next arraignment date exceeded the maximum sentence for a (FTA). Again Judge W. Fletcher Sams exceed the sentencing guidelines when Sams refused to follow the sentencing guidelines of receiving two (2) days credit for each day served. The Fayette citizen was held him extra days. Fearful for his life, after his incarceration, not only was he was prohibited from making or receiving phone calls, but was denied sufficient food for vegetarian. Practically fasting for several days and in a weakened condition, the Fayette County Citizen agreed to sign whatever papers would ensure his quick release from Fayette County Jail, this occurred after serving more than the maximum sentence for FTA. The Fayette citizen was only brought into court after the less than honorable Judge W. Fletcher Sams was served a writ of habeas corpus.
    After receiving the writ and releasing the young man, the less than Honorable Judge W. Fletcher Sams retaliated. Sams with great hubris threatened the writer of the writ with a bench warrant for practicing law with a “license”. W. Fletcher Sams lied when he said it was a felony for practicing law without a “license”. On the same day, only minutes earlier, the less than Honorable Judge W. Fletcher Sams had said, prior to the writ writer’s arrival, that practicing law without a “license” is a misdemeanor. You can only lie to and intimidate some of the people some of the time.
    The less than Honorable Judge W. Fletcher Sams later issued an inadequate public apology to the citizen who has never been arrested before this incident."
  • 11-17-2014, 05:55 AM
    cdwjava
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    So ... what is it you want to do about all of this? The time to appeal or challenge any ruling has looooooooong since passed. And posting an isolated opinion commentary referencing a "sovereign citizen" argument appended to a pseudo news piece is hardly definitive evidence of a judge's malfeasance from 2010 or before.
  • 11-17-2014, 06:25 AM
    free9man
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    regardless there is no requirement a defendant address the court in any such manner and penalizing a defendant for such refusal should have warranted a review by the state's judicial committee.

    Never said it was right, just saying that's probably how the whole mess started.

    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    More likely, he used the wrong name and the judge didn't know what case he was attempting to reference. If he was referencing Alford, and there was sufficient evidence of guilt to support the plea, that's treated as a guilty plea.

    I would hope whoever told him to use that particular plea would have known the proper term, although people do sometimes bobble things when nervous, such as in court.
  • 11-17-2014, 08:20 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    View Post
    I never did fill out any forms a second time or anything for counsel, I filled them out the first time and the paper was given back to me saying I was approved....

    If the forms were handed back to you by a clerk, odds are you misinterpreted what you were told and that you were simply told that they were in proper order. You posted the calendar entries, and the petition was denied.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    ...the judge stated I was denied legal counsel for the sole reason of me "not having a job".

    If you have no right to counsel, the judge's commentary that you could have a job and support yourself aren't relevant to that fact. The information you posted suggests that the prosecutor stipulated to no jail time.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    There was zero evidence....

    You chose to enter what was almost certainly an Alford Plea, meaning you stipulated that the state had enough evidence to convict you. The fact that you think you could have prevailed at trial is taken off the table when you choose to enter a form of guilty plea, and the amount of evidence the court needs to support your plea is minimal.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    ...I just remember a lady telling me if i say a name vs nc I would not be able to be charged with anything...

    I have no idea who this supposed "lady" is. You have told us that you were denied a court-appointed lawyer so, whoever it was, it was not your lawyer. Some random person in the gallery? Perhaps it was misinformation you got from a so-called jailhouse lawyer?
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    The judge also "court ordered" me to have a job just because I sought legal counsel since I did not have a job.

    Its not unusual for a court to order a convicted criminal to search for work as part of his probation.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    Even the "court ordered" anger management classes make no sense....

    The terms of your sentence don't have to make sense to you.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    Hell I was not even told the names of the pills I was being given every 6 or so hrs..I just know one was lithium.

    We have not asked about your psychiatric diagnosis, and you have not shared any information, but it increasingly sounds like you have a pretty serious psychiatric disorder that probably played a significant role in what happened in court.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    Apprently this was seen as sexual harassment....

    You were in a criminal court, and "sexual harassment" is not the name of a criminal offense. The only way a sixteen-year-old would be in that court with a proceeding handled in that manner would be if he was convicted as an adult for a prior offense and were brought back for a probation violation, as juvenile matters are handled in juvenile court.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    ...she stated how she is a single mother that works during the mornings and stated how all her son did was harmlessly asking a girl he liked out on a date to the movies....

    It's safe to say that the girl didn't see things the same way.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    ....or if the fact the girl was white had anything to do with it

    Race has nothing to do with it.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    After my last reply I went to do alil searching and ran across another's post on the fayette counties' newspaper (makes me think I should now try to seek out others who have had run ins with this judge). Here is what it says (from 2010).

    A comment from a nutball?
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    His arrest followed his demonstrating that he knew the distinction between a corporate entity and a human being. For demonstrating this in “his court”....

    The translation of that would be that he is a "sovereign citizen" ignoramus who was spouting his ignorance to first attempt to disrupt the police and later in an attempt to disrupt court proceedings.
    Quote:

    Quoting Georgia1977
    ....Sams refused to follow the sentencing guidelines of receiving two (2) days credit for each day served.

    If that's how it worked, a lot of guilty people would rejoice at pretrial detention.
  • 11-17-2014, 11:59 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    OP used the word "calmly" so often in that first post that I'm certain his behavior in court was just about anything but calm.
  • 11-17-2014, 01:35 PM
    CourtClerk
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    Now I live in the boonies in GA (my version of the boonies), but all I could do is laugh at this, show a few attorneys and say... geez, it would have been easier to say Sir than to go into this whole speech about superiors and parents and mess.

    Considering this is the south and EVERYONE in a position of authority is sir or ma'am. Starts from preschool.
  • 11-17-2014, 01:59 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    Quote:

    Quoting CourtClerk
    View Post
    Now I live in the boonies in GA (my version of the boonies), but all I could do is laugh at this, show a few attorneys and say... geez, it would have been easier to say Sir than to go into this whole speech about superiors and parents and mess.

    Considering this is the south and EVERYONE in a position of authority is sir or ma'am. Starts from preschool.

    In utero, surely?
  • 11-17-2014, 02:45 PM
    free9man
    Re: Denied Legal Counsel
    Quote:

    Quoting CourtClerk
    View Post
    Now I live in the boonies in GA (my version of the boonies),

    Fayette County isn't really the boonies but you can seem them from there.
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