Can an Employer Demand You Repay a Bonus Received Before You Give Notice

you are correct. i accepted the bonus because i have a huge job in my field and a lot of responsibility, and $40,000 a year is not much for the amount that i do. i did not have any plans to leave at that time.

it was only after things continued to get worse (in my opinion, despite the increased pay) that my mind opened to the idea of working somewhere else.

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Quoting Boston75

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you are correct. i accepted the bonus because i have a huge job in my field and a lot of responsibility, and $40,000 a year is not much for the amount that i do. i did not have any plans to leave at that time.

it was only after things continued to get worse (in my opinion, despite the increased pay) that my mind opened to the idea of working somewhere else.

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so was it a bonus to get you to commit to staying for a year or not?

in my bosses opinion, the bonus was for school.

in my opinion, the bonus was for increased salary.

So, answer my questions please.

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You seem to be trying very hard to avoid answering my questions, which is causing me to rethink my position.

My answer is based on there not having been any discussion about the bonus being tied to your remaining in place for a year prior to your giving notice. If that is not the case then my answer changes.

So, one more time; when was the FIRST time your employer indicated that this was a stay bonus and, if different, when was the FIRST time it was mentioned as one year?

well, the story gets more confusing

when i first decided to apply to grad school back in february he said he could probably help me.
then i asked about that after i was accepted and he said maybe he could cover a class or two per semester
then maybe a month later he called me and said he could actually pay for the whole thing over a four year commitment (i never accepted this idea, i knew i wouldnt stay that long)
then in may when it came time to discuss my raise i said i wanted an increase to 40,000 which i thought was great, but in discussing with my friend they reminded me about his offer to pay for school
i asked him and he said he cant give me a raise and pay for school, so we left it at that
then back in august my work continued to increase significantly and i asked for another raise by email
so he said he could provide it as an educational bonus for that amount
then, like i said before, we got into the discussion where i said it should not be for school it should be part of my salary and spread over time and he said he had to give it all at once
i said ok, and it was deposited directly to me as a bonus.

I still want to know how it was characterized on his paystub / payroll records.

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Quoting Boston75

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then, like i said before, we got into the discussion where i said it should not be for school it should be part of my salary and spread over time and he said he had to give it all at once

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That statement has me again thinking that this was not characterized as a bonus or as compensation, but was a payment characterized to give some form of tax advantage to the employer.

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Quoting Boston75

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in my bosses opinion, the bonus was for school.

in my opinion, the bonus was for increased salary.

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guess what; your opinion doesn't count. It was what the boss proffered the bonus for that matters.


but even worse; since there may be a lack of the meeting of the minds, getting back to good ol' contract law, it may become a voidable contract.

So, now what were the terms the boss put on the payment of this bonus?

it shows up as a bonus on my paystub

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Quoting Boston75

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well, the story gets more confusing

when i first decided to apply to grad school back in february he said he could probably help me.
then i asked about that after i was accepted and he said maybe he could cover a class or two per semester
then maybe a month later he called me and said he could actually pay for the whole thing over a four year commitment (i never accepted this idea, i knew i wouldnt stay that long)
then in may when it came time to discuss my raise i said i wanted an increase to 40,000 which i thought was great, but in discussing with my friend they reminded me about his offer to pay for school
i asked him and he said he cant give me a raise and pay for school, so we left it at that
then back in august my work continued to increase significantly and i asked for another raise by email
so he said he could provide it as an educational bonus for that amount
then, like i said before, we got into the discussion where i said it should not be for school it should be part of my salary and spread over time and he said he had to give it all at once
i said ok, and it was deposited directly to me as a bonus.

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From that it appears it is a payment for school.


now, the problem is (and it actually benefits you), were there any stipulations placed on the bonus to assist in yuor school costs? If not, then it is yours (if you actually are in school).

I don't want to hear about school or his paying for school. I want a Yes or a No to these questions.

At the time that you received the bonus, did the employer say that the bonus was a stay bonus? Yes or No only

At ANY time before you gave notice, did the employer indicate that he expected you to stay a year? Yes or no only

no, i cannot think of any stipulations at all. i think i have disclosed all the details at this point.

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no, the employer did not say that the bonus was a "stay" bonus

i have already been at my job for a year and a half. the employer thought in his mind that i would at least be working for him until i finished school.

I really seem to be having trouble pinning you down on this point.

The FIRST time that your employer said that you were required to stay a year or pay back the bonus was BEFORE or AFTER you gave notice?

cbg,

the only time my employer demanded that i owe him the bonus was on friday 10/10/14 which is after i gave my notice on 10/1/14.

he never otherwise specified that i would owe him back the money.

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Quoting cbg

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I really seem to be having trouble pinning you down on this point.

The FIRST time that your employer said that you were required to stay a year or pay back the bonus was BEFORE or AFTER you gave notice?

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especially since he has changed it from a retention bonus to the payment of school costs.

THANK you. Why was that so hard?

That being the case, my original answer stands. Is everyone else now satisfied that there is no "bad faith" or "implied contract" or any of the other reasons you've been trying to convince the OP he would have to repay the money?

sorry for not answering the question the first time around. hope it is clear now.

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Quoting cbg

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That being the case, my original answer stands. Is everyone else now satisfied that there is no "bad faith" or "implied contract" or any of the other reasons you've been trying to convince the OP he would have to repay the money?

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no because I don't trust a damn word the OP has said. It has changed all too often.

but regardless, no matter what I think, if the employer wants to force the issue he can make a demand and follow it up with court if he cares to. The judge's opinion is the only one that really matters in the end.

I don't really have the time right now but just to say that educational payments by employers are done on a reimbursement bases. They don't grant a lump sum of money to be used as the employee wants and then claim it is for education.

exactly budwad. i know it looks like my story has changed and that is unfortunate that it looks that way, but i hope that you are all understanding why I decided to leave my job. no structure at all. most employers pay out education bonuses after seeing a grade of B or better only, and that policy is usually in place. in my case, there was no policy in place at all, as i have said before.

Now THAT I agree with.

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Quoting Boston75

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in my bosses opinion, the bonus was for school.

in my opinion, the bonus was for increased salary.

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One thing I do know... Remove the term "bonus" from your vocabulary. You asked for a raise. Your employer gave you a lump sum. Period. End of your story.

Why you left your job other than to preserve your life is irrelevant

This isn't about why you left your job. This is about whether you do or do not have to repay the bonus.

i know that. so, what is the final conclusion?

I continue to believe that you are not obligated to pay it back. I don't know that you've convinced anyone else, but I also have no idea on what legal basis they believe otherwise. Perhaps they can outline what law or legal concept they believe would require it.

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Quoting Boston75

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i know that. so, what is the final conclusion?

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the final conclusion is that if the employer sues you should you refuse to return the money the judge will tell you if you owe the money or not.

Otherwise do what you believe is correct.

cbg:

I am leaning towards him not being required to return it but because it now sounds like it was a bonus to pay for school rather than a retention bonus. Unless there were some very specific stipulations attached to the bonus given as money for educational purposes, I don't see a requirement to repay it.


but of course, since the "facts" tended to change as this thread progressed, about all I can say is:

do what you believe you have a right to do. If the employer wants to push it, then respond to his actions as necessary.

thank you all for your time. i will keep you posted on the outcome of this, which i should have by tomorrow.

Remember that regardless of the outcome of the bonus, you MUST be paid for the time you actually worked. There is no possible question about that. You also, in MA, MUST be paid for any earned but unused vacation time (though not for time you would have earned had you stayed there). Because you quit, he owes you that on the next regular payday after your last day of work, NOT the day you leave.

I am still not seeing any way this would be considered a valid retention bonus.