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How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Iowa
My fiance and I are very frustrated with his ex-wife. I know I have no say so in anything and no rights but he certainly does. We have documented things for the past 3 years about every little thing possible. It is clear to us that she is not what you call a good parent. She currently has 3 kids with her ex husband (my fiance) and 1 child with her new husband and is currently pregnant again. She has a hard time taking care of the ones she has now and we are afraid when the new baby arrives things will get worse.
She continues to quit jobs or get fired from them on a regular basis, in the past 3 years she has had at least 14 jobs that we know of. She continues to try and have child support modified every chance she gets to get more out of their dad. We have documentation of every little thing possible. At what point will the court look at this and say enough is enough? She claims she is always to busy to take kids to their activities whether on his days or her days so then he is stuck doing it on his own or with my help or his parents. She is always to busy to take the kids to the doctor, the past 3 years she has taken 1 of them to the doctor, there dad has taken them every other time whether on her days or his. She is always to busy to go to the kids sporting events or activities. She never has any money to pay for their activities, so we are always paying for them. They currently have 50/50 custody and he is paying her child support since she can't keep a job and by her choice. He also carries their health insurance as well. She has lied to us on several occasions about many issues, she has lied to her kids on several occasions, she ponds them off on her parents on a regular basis. Her own father in law now says and I quote "I don't know why Aaron doesn't fight for full custody of those kids she is a worthless mother" this is her new husbands dad who says this and who also fired her from his office because of her work ethic. Aaron (my fiance) has reached out to his attorney regarding this issue and we were told to continue to document every little thing, so we have. She also told Aaron that if he should fight for full custody then it could actually be worse for him because if he doesn't get it he could end up paying more child support. So we are looking for some answers, some help, some advice that will help us proceed to make sure that the best interest is for his kids.
thanks
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
You seriously need to refrain from dissing Mom; how fit she is or is not is absolutely not your legal matter.
So. How often has Dad taken the children to the doctor's?
What Aaron needs to do is find a substantial change of circumstances, and I'm not seeing anything even close.
What's Aaron's goal? Better life for the kids, or his wallet?
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
First off... If you would have read my post the very first thing I stated was I know that I have no legal rights but he does. However, my fiance and I are a team and I am willing to help him do what is best for him and his kids. And getting advice at this point I believe is not out of line. Dissing mom? We are frustrated and her own father in law states that she is worthless.
Second off... Dad takes the kids everywhere no matter what it is because the ex is to busy to take them anywhere. (Mind you one of the kids has a severe case of Asthma and Allergies and goes every 2 weeks to the doctor and also sees a specialist for some other health issues once a month)
If you would like to see the 3 years of documentation to find the change of circumstances then that is fine with me. So please tell me is it okay to allow your 11 year old and 10 year old to dog sit for someone overnight with no adult around? That is kind of documentation I we have.
Aaron's kids are his life, he always has the best interest in mind. Truthfully he doesnt care about the money or we would not be investing fighting for full custody. And with her having no job, really what kind of child support would he get? Absolutely nothing so you may think its about money but no that is where you are wrong. He wants his kids to have a stable life, to learn to be responsible, last year the days she had them in her care the kids missed 17 days of school. (just one kid) the other 2 missed 8 and 10 days of school. I have kids of my own, we also have 50/50 custody and we don't have any problems we both take turns in doing everything and we are both there for the kids with everything.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
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Quoting
Sarajones
First off... If you would have read my post the very first thing I stated was I know that I have no legal rights but he does. However, my fiance and I are a team and I am willing to help him do what is best for him and his kids. And getting advice at this point I believe is not out of line. Dissing mom? We are frustrated and her own father in law states that she is worthless.
We know.
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Second off... Dad takes the kids everywhere no matter what it is because the ex is to busy to take them anywhere. (Mind you one of the kids has a severe case of Asthma and Allergies and goes every 2 weeks to the doctor and also sees a specialist for some other health issues once a month)
Okay, so Mom hasn't do anything wrong then - Dad's doing what he needs to do.
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If you would like to see the 3 years of documentation to find the change of circumstances then that is fine with me. So please tell me is it okay to allow your 11 year old and 10 year old to dog sit for someone overnight with no adult around? That is kind of documentation I we have.
3 years of documentation is not going to work. If Dad hasn't bothered to do anything yet, he has actually condoned Mom's parenting.
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Aaron's kids are his life, he always has the best interest in mind. Truthfully he doesnt care about the money or we would not be investing fighting for full custody. And with her having no job, really what kind of child support would he get?
It's a moot point, really. If he gets custody - which seems incredibly unlikely - he asks the court to impute an income.
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Absolutely nothing so you may think its about money but no that is where you are wrong. He wants his kids to have a stable life, to learn to be responsible, last year the days she had them in her care the kids missed 17 days of school. (just one kid) the other 2 missed 8 and 10 days of school. I have kids of my own, we also have 50/50 custody and we don't have any problems we both take turns in doing everything and we are both there for the kids with everything.
Bottom line? Dad's allowed this to continue. That means, "no change". And if there's no change, custody will remain the same.
As a side note, what will Dad do if Mom shows the court her binder of documentation? You see where I'm going with this? "Dad's new partner is obviously trying to alienate me from my children".
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
I am not trying to do anything except support my fiance and his decisions. PS her binder does not contain a whole lot... trust me we have seen it at the last child support hearing.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
The point was that what we have is a binder of things which may or may not have actually happened. And believe me, Mom is going to turn up in court with a binder of horrors and several witnesses. Who is to be believed?
The other point is that proving someone unfit is in practice tremendously difficult. Dad has 3 years' worth of stuff that evidently hasn't mattered too much and now his task far, far more difficult. He needs a change of circumstances and if he has sat on this for 3 years, that's going to be a hard sell to the court.
(Otherwise he would have filed, right?)
There is no hard list of what does and does not constitute unfit, but here's an idea.
What the court cares about
Obvious neglect and/or abuse
Marrying the local pedophile
Being incarcerated for an extended period
Substance abuse which places the child at risk
What the court doesn't worry too much about
Parenting differences
Money/bigger house/whatever
Things that happened 3 years ago and the parent not bothering to take it further.
Sara, most of us have been around the block several times. What Dad needs to understand is that this is not an initial custody determination (he'd have a decent shot if that was the case). Now he's wanting it to be modified, and he has a very high burden. I suggest he contacts an attorney, and perhaps discuss his options.
Based purely on what you've said so far, I am just not seeing enough proof for the court.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
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Quoting
Dogmatique
The point was that what we have is a binder of things which may or may not have actually happened. And believe me, Mom is going to turn up in court with a binder of horrors and several witnesses. Who is to be believed?
The other point is that proving someone unfit is in practice tremendously difficult. Dad has 3 years' worth of stuff that evidently hasn't mattered too much and now his task far, far more difficult. He needs a change of circumstances and if he has sat on this for 3 years, that's going to be a hard sell to the court.
(Otherwise he would have filed, right?)
There is no hard list of what does and does not constitute unfit, but here's an idea.
What the court cares about
Obvious neglect and/or abuse
Marrying the local pedophile
Being incarcerated for an extended period
Substance abuse which places the child at risk
What the court doesn't worry too much about
Parenting differences
Money/bigger house/whatever
Things that happened 3 years ago and the parent not bothering to take it further.
Sara, most of us have been around the block several times. What Dad needs to understand is that this is not an initial custody determination (he'd have a decent shot if that was the case). Now he's wanting it to be modified, and he has a very high burden. I suggest he contacts an attorney, and perhaps discuss his options.
Based purely on what you've said so far, I am just not seeing enough proof for the court.
I agree. There really is no change in circumstance here.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
Thanks for the advice, he has been in contact with his attorney and she states something totally different from what you are saying. But she has also seen the documentation of things and she is the one who continues to encourage us to document everything. She was also the attorney that he hired for the divorce and has dealt with everything and she knows the judges and is advising him with what she has seen and heard from her colleagues.
I guess until you see the things that have been documented and turned into DHS per the attorney then it is hard for you to realize. Yes, DHS has been contacted for a few different issues and so has the Police Department. So to say he has not done anything to date in the last 3 years is not true but unless you know the whole case it is not fair for me to blame you in what you have said either.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
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Quoting
Sarajones
Thanks for the advice, he has been in contact with his attorney and she states something totally different from what you are saying. But she has also seen the documentation of things and she is the one who continues to encourage us to document everything. She was also the attorney that he hired for the divorce and has dealt with everything and she knows the judges and is advising him with what she has seen and heard from her colleagues.
I guess until you see the things that have been documented and turned into DHS per the attorney then it is hard for you to realize. Yes, DHS has been contacted for a few different issues and so has the Police Department. So to say he has not done anything to date in the last 3 years is not true but unless you know the whole case it is not fair for me to blame you in what you have said either.
We can only go by what you tell us. Your initial post did not contain any information that would indicate a change in circumstance. However, sending documentation to DHS isn't necessarily relevant unless DHS has actually considered any of it to be "founded". If the children are still with mom, they cannot have found anything to be too serious. As far as police matters are concerned have there been any arrests?
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
If he has legal counsel why on earth are you asking the people here?
No, we don't know the entire history. No, based on what you have written here, there aren't legal grounds to go for custody since nothing has changed on the surface.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
There have been several well fair checks due to the fact that her new husband and 2 buddies were playing with a loaded gun in the house and it went off and one of the guys were shot in the leg. After finding this out we had several well fair checks done to ensure that the guns were locked up and unloaded. DHS was called in and they also did a well fair check, however they did not see that it was abuse more like incompetent parenting when taking an SOS pad to your childs are to get a fake tatoo off so nothing was done except for DHS now has a file for her.
Like I said we have so much documented that I could go on and on and on but you would be reading for days. Like I also said you don't know the whole situation so I can see why what was said. I only reached out on here to see what type of responses and advice and see if anyone is going through the same type of situation. But to just reach out and say we haven't done anything is not the case we have had an attorney advice through the whole thing. Just like last month we found out the 2 oldest 10 and 11 year olds were staying at their grandparents house without any adult over night dog sitting while they were out of town. When we found out this we contacted the attorney to find out our options.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
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Quoting
Sarajones
There have been several well fair checks due to the fact that her new husband and 2 buddies were playing with a loaded gun in the house and it went off and one of the guys were shot in the leg. After finding this out we had several well fair checks done to ensure that the guns were locked up and unloaded. DHS was called in and they also did a well fair check, however they did not see that it was abuse more like incompetent parenting when taking an SOS pad to your childs are to get a fake tatoo off so nothing was done except for DHS now has a file for her.
Like I said we have so much documented that I could go on and on and on but you would be reading for days. Like I also said you don't know the whole situation so I can see why what was said. I only reached out on here to see what type of responses and advice and see if anyone is going through the same type of situation. But to just reach out and say we haven't done anything is not the case we have had an attorney advice through the whole thing. Just like last month we found out the 2 oldest 10 and 11 year olds were staying at their grandparents house without any adult over night dog sitting while they were out of town. When we found out this we contacted the attorney to find out our options.
Welfare checks are not the same thing as finding that the children are neglected or abused. However, your husband does have an attorney and that is where his questions should be directed.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
Shame on me for reaching out on this forum... I feel like I have been raked over the coals. Obviously you all know everything about everything on here and it is my fault that I even mentioned this on here. No you don't know the whole situation, could I post everything for you I certainly could. Yes he has an attorney but there are so many situations and scenarios out there. After reading some of the posts on here and reading some of the answers I should have known better.
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Trust me I know that welfare checks are not the same. You guys act like this is my first rodeo we have been going through this for 3 years and he has been going through this for longer before I came along. And those questions have all been directed to our attorney...
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
You've completely ignored what you've been told. How did you manage that?! I'll throw you a bone though. Ask the attorney exactly how those all-important 3 binders are going to be accepted as gospel, but Mom's binders will not. Can you at least try to understand that point?
Wish Dad good luck for me, please. Because if you keep going with your vendetta, he can be penalized and penalized heavily. And if given a choice between you and his children, guess who he's going to choose?
Say hi to your imaginary attorney, too.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
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Sarajones
I only reached out on here to see what type of responses and advice and see if anyone is going through the same type of situation.
Honestly, this isn't the proper forum for what you're seeking which seems to be others with whom to commiserate.
From a legal POV - to successfully obtain a modification of custody the moving party must demonstrate a change in circumstances as they pertain to the children and that can be a very difficult standard to meet. If dad has three years of documentation the court *will* want to know why dad didn't file at least two years ago if he truly believed his children were in danger.
Dad needs to speak to a few attorneys (many family law lawyers provide a free initial consultation) before he decides to spend a ton of money in a custody battle.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
unless you forgot to mention the DUI with the kids in the car, the passing out on the couch high on heroin, or getting arrested having the kids help her shoplift, nothing you described is even close to being unfit. being bad at keeping a job does not make someone unfit, being bad with money and not being able to afford fun activities for the children does not make someone unfit.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
Invisible Attorney? Her name is Jessica Wiebrand she is not invisible nor imaginary. I don't have an vendetta and I would never ask him to chose me or his kids ever! How dare you! I love those kids as my own! He asked me to reach out to this forum so I did so sorry that I even asked some simple questions. Good luck to all of you!
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
I suggest you read the thread again.
And honey, you're not the only step-whatever on these boards. The difference is, we've learned our lesson and our place.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
Yeowch! I'm sure Ms. Wiebrand will be absolutely THRILLED to discover that Aaron's girlfriend has not only revealed details of a case online using what appears to be a real name, but has also been named as the attorney of record on a public forum.
Good one.
Well, that took all of 30 seconds to find your FB page, your wedding registration and your fiance Aaron's FULL name.
Lesson: Don't be dumb online. If I could find this crap in under a minute how long do you think it will take mom to find this thread if she gets curious? Hmmm?
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
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Quoting
EA1070a
Yeowch! I'm sure Ms. Wiebrand will be absolutely THRILLED to discover that Aaron's girlfriend has not only revealed details of a case online using what appears to be a real name, but has also been named as the attorney of record on a public forum.
Good one.
Well, that took all of 30 seconds to find your FB page, your wedding registration and your fiance Aaron's FULL name.
Lesson: Don't be dumb online. If I could find this crap in under a minute how long do you think it will take mom to find this thread if she gets curious? Hmmm?
You. Are. SO. Awesome.
:D
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
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Quoting
Dogmatique
You. Are. SO. Awesome.
:D
LOL
Yeah, some people just don't have the brains that God gave a goat.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
You have done nothing but rack me over the coals and make me out to be the bad person in this situation. which I am far from! I asked for advice you called me out to be a liar in which I am not. I completely understand anything can be found online, I am not one to pretend someone I am not.
Like I said thanks for the advice and good luck to all of you!
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
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Sarajones
You have done nothing but rack me over the coals and make me out to be the bad person in this situation. which I am far from! I asked for advice you called me out to be a liar in which I am not. I completely understand anything can be found online, I am not one to pretend someone I am not.
Like I said thanks for the advice and good luck to all of you!
The problem is this. You're telling us that Dad's attorney basically said the exact opposite of what has been said here. Unfortunately, if that is truly coming from an attorney, then Dad needs a different attorney because the one he has is setting him up for failure.
You don't have to believe us. I would hazard that none of us really give a toss about you, Dad or Mom. The child is the focus here, and the real, bona fide, absolute truth is that not of one us has steered you in the wrong direction.
You see, it's not actually that common to see us all agree. When it does happen, it's because of 1 of 2 things (and often both):
1. We've been there and done that and have sold out of t-shirts or
2. Have the ability to not only gauge the thread, but also to respond according to the law.
We see this all the time. Really. Dad's situation is not unique, and it's not difficult to answer....and yet you've still convinced yourself (or both of you) that Dad actually has a shot at changing custody.
Based on what you've said here? No, he really doesn't.
Can you guess why?
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That the Mother is Not a Capable or Good Parent
There's rarely much point in responding to a question that boils down to, in essence, "Here's my one-sided version of the facts, and why the other parent shouldn't have custody. Will custody be changed if the case goes to court?" In court, the one-sided story is subject to challenge, and other facts will also come into play.
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Sarajones
It is clear to us that she is not what you call a good parent. She currently has 3 kids with her ex husband (my fiance) and 1 child with her new husband and is currently pregnant again. She has a hard time taking care of the ones she has now and we are afraid when the new baby arrives things will get worse.
All of that raises the question, how did she get equal custody in the first place? Is she not the same person that she was when your husband agreed to 50/50 custody at the time of the divorce? If your husband's lawyer is concerned that your husband will lose a custody battle, and will also lose some of the parenting time he presently enjoys such that his support burden will go up, there's a lot more to the story than you've shared.
Mom's having numerous jobs is worth noting, but there's nothing about changing jobs that stands as evidence that somebody is a bad parent or that they're not properly supporting their family. A petition to change child support says absolutely nothing about parenting skills. If dad chooses to provide transportation such that the kids can participate in activities that they might not otherwise be able to do, that's great, but that doesn't create a context in which he can claim that mom is neglectful or an inadequate parent. It's anything but unusual for parents to have schedules that conflict with certain work activities, to have kids involved in activities at the same time in more than one place, or to otherwise be unable to manage and attend every activity in which every child would like to participate. Similarly, dad's taking the kids for checkups is great, but parents (married or divorced) have every right to allocate that sort of responsibility between themselves as they see fit. Such a division of labor can occur by express agreement, or by virtue of the parties' practices.
You have told us that the parents have 50/50 custody -- so why is it that you believe that transporting the kids to their activities, taking the kids to the doctor, and the like, should fall on mom? If you don't believe that, why is it a point of contention that your husband is taking care of his kids?
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Sarajones
Truthfully he doesnt care about the money or we would not be investing fighting for full custody.
Then why did you bring up the issue of money, in relation to his lawyer's concern that the mother might prevail in her custody case and end up with more child support, or in relation to mom's petitions to modify support?
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Sarajones
Thanks for the advice, he has been in contact with his attorney and she states something totally different from what you are saying. But she has also seen the documentation of things and she is the one who continues to encourage us to document everything. She was also the attorney that he hired for the divorce and has dealt with everything and she knows the judges and is advising him with what she has seen and heard from her colleagues.
So she's the lawyer who advised him that 50/50 custody was a good deal for him at the time of the divorce? And who, despite everything that has happened since, remains concerned that if he starts a custody fight mom could be made the primary custodian?
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llworking
We can only go by what you tell us. Your initial post did not contain any information that would indicate a change in circumstance.
And that is a very important point, because if nothing material to custody has changed since the parties agreed to 50/50 custody, mom's parenting is the same as it was at the time of the last order.
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Sarajones
...when taking an SOS pad to your childs are to get a fake tatoo off so nothing was done except for DHS now has a file for her.
So you called protective services because the child had a temporary tattoo scrubbed off? A child of what age? A tattoo of what? And this report was over some residual redness of the skin? With DHS investigating and finding nothing constituting abuse or neglect?
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Quoting Sarajones
Like I also said you don't know the whole situation so I can see why what was said.
Right. We only know what you tell us, and we don't have word one from mom.
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Quoting Sarajones
I only reached out on here to see what type of responses and advice and see if anyone is going through the same type of situation.
And the response you received was more tentative than what your husband is hearing from his own lawyer -- that you have not shared facts that would justify a change in circumstances that would justify a court's revisiting the case, as opposed to the lawyer's concern that even with his binders of documentation a new custody fight could result in mom winning primary custody.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
I'd like to say thank you, Dogmatique, for this post. I'm currently trying to get the courts to change the temporary custody agreement we currently have in place. I've got proof my ex has made suicidal statements, as well as admitting that there is a meth problem. These 2 things, as well as other, are all within the past 30-45 days & I've already got a court date on the 21st, that hearing is to take care of the objection to relocation i filed against him. My ex moved without giving any notices & the 21st is my chance to say why I object to his move. I'm turning in a new parenting plan at the same time, along with all the electronic evidence proving he's got serious issues. I'm not sure if this hearing on the 21st is the right time to bring up the problems in his household, since this hearing is about me objecting to him relocating. He's already moved, however, so I don't think the judge will make him move back to the town he was in. That is why I'm going to for majority custody, due to the serious issues he currently has in his home. At this point we are sharing custody, although he managed to get 9 hours more time, so he's considered majority custodian. Do you think bringing these things up during the objection to relocation hearing is the right time? I've got no way of obtaining legal advice, the Internet & court facilitator are my only sources & the facilitator cannot give legal advice, only tell me what paperwork to file.
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I apologize, I should have begun my own thread. Instead of horning in on this one.
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Re: How to Prove to the Court That Mother is Not Capable or Not a Good Parent
Add this to your own thread - and I'll respond. You may not like what I'll say though.