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Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Michigan
Several months ago a woman with whom I was in a romantic relationship and I willfully and knowingly conceived a child. I am very confident that I am the biological father, and she has stated on record that I am as well. Since that time she has decided that she no longer desires to be in a relationship with me. Disregarding the best interest of our impending child she decided that she would rather the child be fatherless, and that she would use any means necessary in an attempt to prohibit me from being a part of my daughters life, simply because she doesn't want to be forced to interact with me, or share parental rights. However, she desires child support, and unfortunately for her she can't have it both ways.
Her mother and her devised a plan, and she staged a coup resulting in me getting a domestic violence charge. I wasn't arrested, but they did submit the police report to the prosecutor, and they decided to charge me. Regardless of the fact that I am innocent of the charges, in lieu of facing jail time and a stronger sentence in a court system with a 99% conviction rating, I elected to take the plea bargain to ensure as little damages to myself as possible. I would have probably fought it if I had $10,000 to spend on a lawyer to go to trial, but unfortunately I do not.
So of course this resulted in a no contact order, and pretty much eliminating my chances of joint physical custody now that I have a DV on my record. This was her intention and she succeeded, but I'm not giving up at least being able to obtain joint legal custody and visitation with my child. I've retained an attorney, and he sent her a letter with the affidavit of parentage forums she will need to fill out when our child is born. I have also submitted a notice of intent to claim paternity with the county. I obtained an infant first aid/AED/CPR certification with red cross, and also am taking parenting classes.
Finally to my point. I expect that she will put me on the birth certificate as the father as she will want child support. Is there anyway that when she does I can force the hospital to notify me that my child has been born? Because as it stands now I have no way of knowing as she enjoys denying me of any information to the fullest extent, and I don't dare to contact her and break the no contact order. Isn't there some way I can be notified of my daughters birth, and if she does put me on the birth certificate as the father wouldn't I have the legal right to see my child in the nursery when she is born so long as I don't have any contact with the mother?
A personal friend of mine knows one of the people on the board of directors of the local hospital where my child will be born, and she asked her if there was any way for me to see my child when she is born. She told my friend that if I was able to get a court order that they would make accommodations, but as far as I have been able to ascertain there is no way to obtain such a court order.
As anyone with children here can most likely relate, I have a strong desire to see my first and only child when she is born, and I also sure would like to know when she is born at the very least. Any advice and/or suggestions are most welcomed.
Thank you for your time.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
She cannot 'put you on the birth certificate' without a signed Acknowledgement of Paternity signed by you and notarized.
You have NO right to see her or Baby until a court gives you rights, which won't happen for several months until after Baby is born.
If you want to be a part of your child's life from the get-go, you need to be married to the prospective Mother before birth.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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Quoting
disgruntledfather
...Her mother and her devised a plan, and she staged a coup resulting in me getting a domestic violence charge...this resulted in a no contact order, and pretty much eliminating my chances of joint physical custody now that I have a DV on my record. This was her intention and she succeeded, but I'm not giving up at least being able to obtain joint legal custody and visitation with my child...
You are now in a position where you may be denied joint legal custody as a result of the DV conviction. Many states expressly prohibit awarding joint legal custody where DV has occurred, and even where not mandated by statute, may still be cause to deny joint legal custody. Though you can expect to be awarded visitation.
If mom simply refuses to sign the AOP, that throws the ball back into your court to take the additional time, effort, and expense of litigating this point, and you may be looking at weeks to months before having contact with your child. That assuming your attorney moves shortly after the child is born to file and serve mom a petition to establish you as the father of your child, and start the ball rolling on custody, visitation, and child support.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
My lawyer who is a family attorney very familiar with my local court system has stated he doesn't see any reason that I won't be awarded legal custody, and that visitation, although may be temporarily supervised, will be established as soon as I am recognized as the legal father which will likely happen when she signs the Affidavit of Parentage at birth, I am not required to sign anything on it as I already have submitted my notarized intent to claim paternity, and she received a copy via certified mail from the court; my part is done.
The only reason it could take some time is in the event she decides she is willing to forgo the child support in order to prevent me from seeing the child, and then I would have to file to have a DNA test done. I spoke with two other lawyers before choosing my current attorney and they also both told me the same thing. The second lawyer with who I spoke is the one who gave me, and notarized the notice of intent to claim paternity forum. The only reason I didn't go with him is he wanted a $5000 retainer as he belongs to a huge men divorce firm in a very rich area near here. My lawyer was only $2500, and he's local. All three assured me I will get supervised visits for two months, then unsupervised, then shortly after overnight every other Saturday evening to Sunday evening, and potentially one day a week. After the child reaches a certain age it will be Friday to Sunday every other week and one week during the summer. Obviously the standard, a friend of mine who is also a mental health professional is willing to supervise the visits.
The laws in your state must be much more chauvinistic to woman than even here, and I am grateful that I don't reside there.
But just to clarify, there is no way for me to be notified when my child is born, even if she signs the AOP at birth?
My lawyer said I couldn't see the child at birth unless she permitted me, but I wanted a second opinion. If I am capable of using my own resources to know when the child is born, would I be violating any law by viewing my child in the hospital in the nursery where they put babies after birth so long as I have no contact with the mother?
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
EVEN IF YOU WERE MARRIED TO HER there would be no way for you to be notified when the child was born.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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cbg
EVEN IF YOU WERE MARRIED TO HER there would be no way for you to be notified when the child was born.
That's regrettable, but it's likely I will be able to know when the child is born via her and her mothers obsession with sharing every bit of personal information on facebook, so if I went and saw my daughter am I going to get tazed?
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
No, but you might be escorted bodily off the premises.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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cbg
No, but you might be escorted bodily off the premises.
By who's authority? What law would I be violating?
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
By who's authority? What law would I be violating?
The Restraining Order that she has against you.
I'd suggest staying away from the hospital, unless you're interested in Security escorting you out and your friend in Administration running afoul of Federal Law.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
By who's authority? What law would I be violating?
How big is the hospital? What is the distance you must stay away from her? If you come within that distance, you can and probably will be arrested. BAD idea to go and see the baby at the hospital, especially since it is likely the baby will be with his or her mother most if not all of the time after birth.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Anyway, there is no restraining order, I'm not required to stay any distance away. I'm simply required not to communicate with her in anyway. No Contact orders are not restraining orders. I don't even have any paperwork on it, it's just simply one of my probation stipulations. The state issues them by default in every DV case.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
If your "friend in Administration" gives you one word about the baby or the mother, he or she will be in violation of HIPAA laws. So don't expect any help in that regard. This includes so much as the room number.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Remember what probation is ... that means they are allowing you to be free in lieu of being behind bars. If you go around tweaking the tiger or wandering around a hospital hoping not to make inadvertent contact with her, you may find probation revoked.
Your call.
If you want to be seen in the best possible light by a judge regarding a future filing for visitation, you should go out of your way to show that you aren't a twit. Stay away until a court says otherwise.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
She isn't my friend, she's just a friend of a friend, and she is obviously well aware of the HIPAA laws. That's not what I was suggesting. As I said, when she is in the hospital, I expect to see a trove of comments and pictures on her and her mothers facebook pages. That's the only way I would expect to find out, or I could just as easily hear the news through mutual friends.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
...The laws in your state must be much more chauvinistic to woman than even here, and I am grateful that I don't reside there...
Reckon from your perspective you have good reason to feel that strong laws against domestic violence are chauvinistic. It may be my state has reason to be grateful you do not reside here.
You are making a lot of incorrect legal assumptions and conclusions. Especially coming from someone who did not have enough sense to fight a domestic violence charge he was "innocent" of, and instead pled guilty to in a plea bargain.
Not only is your DV conviction "a factor" the court will consider, but also the ability of parents to work together. This to determine whether to award sole or joint legal custody. The first impression a judge will have of you is that you pled guilty to DV against your child's mother, and that you are legally restrained from any contact with her. Which are two points her attorney may zero in on right away to argue for sole legal custody.
Lower retainers can often be deceiving, and baiting, because in the end you pay for total billable hours. If mom lawyers up and plays hardball with custody, your legal fees may easily surpass the other attorneys higher retainer in a matter of months.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Your notarized letter means absolutely nothing (thankfully). I hope your attorney explained that to you.
The bottom line is that you're not the child's father legally, and as such you have absolutely no right to see the child until paternity is established and you actually have an enforceable order.
This takes several months - assuming Mom is fit, she has status quo on her side andwill likely end up with Mom being primary and you having visitation. Don't expect to have a true 50-50 timeshare - not happening unless Mom agrees.
I'm not convinced you're grasping what you're being told here. You do not have a child until paternity is established; it would be foolish if you decided to hang out at the hospital - you have as much right to see this baby as I do.
I'm also getting the impression that you're not quite on the same page in terms of custody and what you feel is right. I strongly suggest you read a few more threads dealing with paternity - I'm not convinced you understand what's going on here.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
I'd like to know how you are so VERY CONFIDENT that this is your child. Did you have Mom tied up and locked in a closet when she wasn't with you? Did you keep her tied to your back 24/7?
Oh, and so you know: IF you are indeed the father, you will be responsible for part if not all of Mom's medical expenses during pregnancy and the expenses of childbirth.
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722.712 Child born out of wedlock; liability of parents; duties of court; medical expenses; death of father of child born out of wedlock; "Medicaid" defined.
Sec. 2.
(1) The parents of a child born out of wedlock are liable for all of the following:
(a) The medical expenses connected to the mother's pregnancy.
(b) The medical expenses connected to the birth of the child.
(c) The necessary support and education of the child.
(d) The child's funeral expenses.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...me=mcl-722-712
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
It's not so much something I was considering doing, I pretty much realize that it's not going to be status quo. I'm just wondering why, and if anyone could really even do anything to stop me hypothetically. Probation can't just be revoked on a whim, there has to be a valid reason, and the only reason would be violating one of the terms of my probation. Seeing my child at the hospital isn't a violation of those terms, so in theory no one would have the authority to do anything about it.
I think it's probably likely that they would make me leave as you said, but even still it wouldn't be in their legal rights to do so, as long as I wasn't disturbing the peace. If she signs AOP what right do they have to stop me from seeing my child so long as the child isn't with her?
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
All the AOP gives you is the right to file for other rights and obligations without having to prove via DNA that you are the father.
And trust me: If Mom doesn't want you there, and you show up anyway, Security will be more than glad to escort the non-patient out of the building. Make a scene, and they'll be more than happy to make sure the local LEO is aware of you.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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Dogmatique
Your notarized letter means absolutely nothing (thankfully). I hope your attorney explained that to you.
My notarized letter filed with the court means I don't have to be present to sign the AOP, I don't know what your qualifications are but I find it ironic I know more than you on the topic.
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BooRennie
I'd like to know how you are so VERY CONFIDENT that this is your child. Did you have Mom tied up and locked in a closet when she wasn't with you? Did you keep her tied to your back 24/7?
Oh, and so you know: IF you are indeed the father, you will be responsible for part if not all of Mom's medical expenses during pregnancy and the expenses of childbirth.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%2...me=mcl-722-712
I'm confident because we were trying to get pregnant, and is also a very unattractive woman, and it's very unlikely. I'm 99% sure the child is mine. She would love it if it wasn't so that she could easily be rid of me, and if there was even a chance she would have brought it up by now. As for medical expenses, the mother has insurance, and so do I.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
My notarized letter filed with the court means I don't have to be present to sign the AOP, I don't know what your qualifications are but I find it ironic I know more than you on the topic.
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I'm confident because we were trying to get pregnant, and she is also a very unattractive woman, and it's very unlikely. I'm 99% sure. As for medical expenses, mom has insurance, and so do I.
Well, since you KNOW so much, why are you here? :indecisiveness:
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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Dogmatique
I'm not convinced you're grasping what you're being told here. You do not have a child until paternity is established; it would be foolish if you decided to hang out at the hospital - you have as much right to see this baby as I do.
I'm also getting the impression that you're not quite on the same page in terms of custody and what you feel is right. I strongly suggest you read a few more threads dealing with paternity - I'm not convinced you understand what's going on here.
I fully grasp what's being said here, I don't think you understand or fully read what I've said. I stated more than once that paternity is likely to be established very shortly after birth, she want's the child support, and she has the AOP, I already filed my part of it. The fact that you don't understand what a notice of intent to claim paternity means, doesn't change the reality that once she sings the AOP I'm the legal father by all rights.
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BooRennie
Well, since you KNOW so much, why are you here? :indecisiveness:
That's a fair question; I like second opinions. Also, all I wanted to know was the answer to my first two questions, no one has been able to give a valid response. I'm not arguing for the sake of winning, I'm just trying to find a real answer to what would be illegal about OP if anything. I don't really care what anyone here thinks is morally correct, I only care about the facts.
The wonderful forum patrons here have convinced me not to attempt it, even though I wasn't sold on the idea to begin with, but I still think it's an interesting topic to think about.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=disgruntledfather;835424]My notarized letter filed with the court means I don't have to be present to sign the AOP, I don't know what your qualifications are but I find it ironic I know more than you on the topic.
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Let me try again please.
Your notarized letter means NOTHING.
Do you understand this? Do you actually understand what notarization is? Do I need to explain why?
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I'm confident because we were trying to get pregnant, and is also a very unattractive woman, and it's very unlikely. I'm 99% sure the child is mine. She would love it if it wasn't so that she could easily be rid of me, and if there was even a chance she would have brought it up by now. As for medical expenses, the mother has insurance, and so do I.
Very unattractive? Well, that says a lot about you, doesn't it?
I don't know what you look like, but your posts here are painting a rather ugly picture of you.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=Dogmatique;835430]
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disgruntledfather
My notarized letter filed with the court means I don't have to be present to sign the AOP, I don't know what your qualifications are but I find it ironic I know more than you on the topic.
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Let me try again please.
Your notarized letter means NOTHING.
Do you understand this? Do you actually understand what notarization is? Do I need to explain why?
Very unattractive? Well, that says a lot about you, doesn't it?
I don't know what you look like, but your posts here are painting a rather ugly picture of you.
I'm actually moderately attractive, I picked her because I expected her to be good mother and partner, and I thought her to be a very kind person, looks aren't everything to me, but it turned out that she presented herself in a way that wasn't a true representation of herself, and when she stopped taking her medication for bipolar disorder in light of becoming pregnant, she turned into someone else entirely. She even made threats that she was going to kill herself and the baby if I didn't comply with her demands. The fact that I answered the question truthfully shows that I'm honest. I was asked why I was so sure that I am the father, and I gave the true explanation so that my reasoning could be understood. As you should also take note, that wasn't the only explanation I provided, there were several. Why am I being painted as an "ugly" person by my posts? Because I'm a father who wants to see his child? You are the one personally attacking me, simply because of your opinion on men and their rights to their children. Shame on you. Fathers have just as much moral right to their children as mothers.
On the topic of the notice of intent to claim paternity, you seem to be focusing on the fact that it was notarized quite a lot. All having a notarized document means is proof that you were in fact the individual who signed it, I'm not sure if you know that or not. As for the document it's self it has two purposes. The first being preventing adoption with out me being notified, the second is to state that I am admitting, and willing to prove that I'm the father, and as such signing further documentation stating the same thing such as the AOP is redundant. I may be asked to sign it at some point for technicality, but with this document I have already admitted, on record, and filed with the court that I am claiming paternity of the child, so when she signs her part, I should by all intents and purposes be recognized as the father.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Just out of curiousity, was mom pregnant when you were in the supposed DV incident?
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Oh, and as a note, the hospital can ask you to leave for most any reason they choose to. So long as the reason is not because of your perceived association with a federally protected class of people, they can ask you to leave. You have no right to visit anyone in a hospital - even your child and even if mom signs the AOP.
If your presence makes the mom uneasy, you'll be gone.
And if the child is in a nursery (hospitals out here have gone away from this concept unless the child is at risk) then you will likely not be allowed in without the proper wristband or other ID that the hospital will have provided to the mom. I suppose you can stare at a room full of babies through a window to the nursery if they still have those.
Smartest move would be to stay away until a court decides on visitation. But, clearly you're not here for what the smart move is, you want to know what you can do and get away with. Good luck with that.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Chances are you won't have a chance to see the child at all. The days of putting all of the babies in a nursery so everyone can see them? Pretty much over.
When I had my son he was with me from the time I gave birth until we left the hospital with the exception of 15 minutes when they bathed him.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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aardvarc
Just out of curiousity, was mom pregnant when you were in the supposed DV incident?
She was 3 months pregnant, however there was no violence committed. I wasn't even arrested when this happened. I was being charged with felony interfering with a telecommunication device thanks to my county's new overzealous prosecuting attorney, and it was dropped down to misdemeanor DV as part of the plea bargain.
If you're curious to know what happened, he brother was living with us and he smokes marijuana habitually, which was also an issue I was very displeased with, and a source of much stress, but we got in an argument about her spending habits, we were supposed to be saving for a house and she wanted a new car, and she told me to leave and I said no, she said she was going to call the police and make me leave, I said that the police can't make me leave my house, she said she would then tell them that her brothers marijuana was mine, so I took her phone. She tried to hit me with a 45 ounce beer bottle at that point, so I held her arm and took it our of her hand. She walked outside of the house and went to the neighbors house to call the police out of spite.
The whole situation seemed weird to me, we weren't really arguing very seriously when things escalated, more just having a casual conversation while disagreeing. She never flipped out like that before, a few days before all this happened she expressed that she was no longer interested in getting married unless I changed. She likes to go out and party, and I like to stay home, long story short she thinks I'm not entertaining enough. So I honestly am somewhat convinced she decided she didn't want to be with me and this was all a premeditated event to make it harder for me to receive my parental rights. I could be wrong though. There were two cops that came to the house, one was a male, and he understood my situation entirely and refused to take me to jail. The other one was a very butch female who acted like she wanted to crucify me. Ironically, she told them the truth that the marijuana was her brothers, I suspect she became afraid to lie to the police, but they didn't do anything about it regardless. He received no charges.
It's really regrettable that our system works this way. I was charged with the same crime as someone who beats women, and it really disgusting that the court can do that, but what choice did I have but to accept the plea? Pretty much none in reality, everyone knows that.
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cdwjava
Smartest move would be to stay away until a court decides on visitation. But, clearly you're not here for what the smart move is, you want to know what you can do and get away with. Good luck with that.
As I said, I wont be going, and thanks for the information. That's what I was here for. That being said, morally it's offensive to think that you and others who share your opinion here don't think a father has a right to see his daughter on the day that she is born.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=disgruntledfather;835431]
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Dogmatique
I'm actually moderately attractive, I picked her because I expected her to be good mother and partner, and I thought her to be a very kind person, looks aren't everything to me, but it turned out that she presented herself in a way that wasn't a true representation of herself, and when she stopped taking her medication for bipolar disorder in light of becoming pregnant, she turned into someone else entirely. She even made threats that she was going to kill herself and the baby if I didn't comply with her demands. The fact that I answered the question truthfully shows that I'm honest. I was asked why I was so sure that I am the father, and I gave the true explanation so that my reasoning could be understood. As you should also take note, that wasn't the only explanation I provided, there were several. Why am I being painted as an "ugly" person by my posts? Because I'm a father who wants to see his child? You are the one personally attacking me, simply because of your opinion on men and their rights to their children. Shame on you. Fathers have just as much moral right to their children as mothers.
On the topic of the notice of intent to claim paternity, you seem to be focusing on the fact that it was notarized quite a lot. All having a notarized document means is proof that you were in fact the individual who signed it, I'm not sure if you know that or not. As for the document it's self it has two purposes. The first being preventing adoption with out me being notified, the second is to state that I am admitting, and willing to prove that I'm the father, and as such signing further documentation stating the same thing such as the AOP is redundant. I may be asked to sign it at some point for technicality, but with this document I have already admitted, on record, and filed with the court that I am claiming paternity of the child, so when she signs her part, I should by all intents and purposes be recognized as the father.
You've got to be kidding.
True story:
Widow, husband, kids, fantastic life. I am generally the first person to jump in and defend the fathers....seriously, calm yourself down and read old threads.
Now for the notarized letter.
The court doesn't care. THINK about it. Do you understand what a notarized document does?
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
As I said, I wont be going, and thanks for the information. That's what I was here for. That being said, morally it's offensive to think that you and others who share your opinion here don't think a father has a right to see his daughter on the day that she is born.
Your problem is that legally, you don't have a daughter yet. That's what happens when you procreate with a woman who is not your wife. You may want to pass that tidbit on to your men's rights friends.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
She was 3 months pregnant, however there was no violence committed. I wasn't even arrested when this happened. I was being charged with felony interfering with a telecommunication device thanks to my county's new overzealous prosecuting attorney, and it was dropped down to misdemeanor DV as part of the plea bargain.
If you're curious to know what happened, he brother was living with us and he smokes marijuana habitually, which was also an issue I was very displeased with, and a source of much stress, but we got in an argument about her spending habits, we were supposed to be saving for a house and she wanted a new car, and she told me to leave and I said no, she said she was going to call the police and tell them that her brothers marijuana was mine, I took her phone. She tried to hit me with a 45 ounce beer bottle so I held her arm and took it our of her hand. She walked outside of the house and went to the neighbors house to call the police out of spite. The whole situation seemed weird to me, we weren't really arguing very seriously when things escalated, more just having a casual conversation while disagreeing. She never flipped out like that before, a few days before all this happened she expressed that she was no longer interested in getting married unless I changed. She likes to go out and party, and I like to stay home, long story short she thinks I'm not entertaining enough. So I honestly am somewhat convinced this was all a premeditated event to make it harder for me to receive my parental rights. I could be wrong though. There were two cops that came to the house, one was a male, and he understood my situation entirely and refused to take me to jail. The other one was a very butch female who acted like she wanted to crucify me. Ironically, she told them the truth that the marijuana was her brothers, I suspect she became afraid to lie to the police, but they didn't do anything about it regardless. He received no charges.
It's really regrettable that our system works this way. I was charged with the same crime as someone who beats women, and it really disgusting that the court can do that, but what choice did I have but to accept the plea? Pretty much none in reality, everyone knows that.
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As I said, I wont be going, and thanks for the information. That's what I was here for. That being said, morally it's offensive to think that you and others who share your opinion here don't think a father has a right to see his daughter on the day that she is born.
You're not the father. Legally this child has one parent.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=Dogmatique;835436]
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disgruntledfather
You've got to be kidding.
True story:
Widow, husband, kids, fantastic life. I am generally the first person to jump in and defend the fathers....seriously, calm yourself down and read old threads.
Now for the notarized letter.
The court doesn't care. THINK about it. Do you understand what a notarized document does?
Why is everyone so focused on my letter of intent to claim paternity, and why is everyone so obsessed with it being notarized? All the letter does is states I am willing, and desire to claim my parental rights.
It states:
State of Michigan
County of X
In accordance with Public act 235 of 1972 as amended by Public of 1972, as amended by the Public Act of 1974 I, (name) who's address is (x) being duly sword, do hereby give notice of my intent to claim paternity of the child or children which may be born to (mothers name) who's last know address is (c) To the best of my knowledge the expected date of birth is (x) of (x) By the filing of this notice I acknowledge my liability for contribution to the support and education of such child or children when born and my liability for contribution to the pregnancy related medical expenses of the matter (my signature) Then all of the notary information follows and it ends in, this notice is filed to allow the probate court to notify the claimant at the above address in the event the child or children born are released for adoption. It is to be used to establish conclusive evidence of paternity in any action under 1956 P.A. 205 (Paternity Act). then more date and signature stuff.
My point was, it was suggested that before I am recognized as the legal father her and I both need to sign the AOP, and I'm saying while that may be true, it's like abusing a loophole in the system as I've already stated and signed that I am acknowledging that I'm the father. I have a hard time imagining a hypothetical situation in court where the AOP could be used against me sighting I haven't signed, when I have already signed other documents stating that I am such as the notice of intent to claim paternity.
And as for me calming down, that's not going to happen. I'll calm down on these forums perhaps, but I'm in a situation where the only thing I ever wanted in life (a family) is being used as a weapon against me, and I have to fight for the very right to see the child that is my own flesh and blood, that I view as an extension of my own self. All I want to do is protect my child, and I'm in a situation where I'm left completely powerless because of the way the system horribly disregards the rights of fathers.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=disgruntledfather;835440]
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Quoting
Dogmatique
Why is everyone so focused on my letter of intent to claim paternity, and why is everyone so obsessed with it being notarized? All the letter does is states I am willing, and desire to claim my parental rights.
It states:
State of Michigan
County of X
In accordance with Public act 235 of 1972 as amended by Public of 1972, as amended by the Public Act of 1974 I, (name) who's address is (x) being duly sword, do hereby give notice of my intent to claim paternity of the child or children which may be born to (mothers name) who's last know address is (c) To the best of my knowledge the expected date of birth is (x) of (x) By the filing of this notice I acknowledge my liability for contribution to the support and education of such child or children when born and my liability for contribution to the pregnancy related medical expenses of the matter (my signature) Then all of the notary information follows and it ends in, this notice is filed to allow the probate court to notify the claimant at the above address in the event the child or children born are released for adoption. It is to be used to establish conclusive evidence of paternity in any action under 1956 P.A. 205 (Paternity Act). then more date and signature stuff.
My point was, it was suggested that before I am recognized as the legal father her and I both need to sign the AOP, and I'm saying while that may be true, it's like abusing a loophole in the system as I've already stated and signed that I am acknowledging that I'm the father. I have a hard time imagining a hypothetical situation in court where the AOP could be used against me sighting I haven't signed, when I have already signed other documents stating that I am such as the notice of intent to claim paternity.
Tell me again you know what you're talking about. :wallbang:
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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Quoting
geek
Your problem is that legally, you don't have a daughter yet. That's what happens when you procreate with a woman who is not your wife. You may want to pass that tidbit on to your men's rights friends.
You are right about that, it was a poor choice on my part. I am 28, and I've waited this long, she is 30 and also had no children, I thought for many reasons that I had met the perfect match, but it was a very poor choice on my part. I don't have men's rights friends, but I hope to have some in the future, I'm considering starting a local group.
I'm not sure about other states, but I know here in Michigan the rights of an unmarried father and a married father are almost identical. The only was that would have caused me a problem is if she was married to someone else when we procreated, even then though with the amount of evidence I have of her stating that I'm the father, including on the police report for the fantasy DV, I don't think even then it would be an issue for me to get a order for a DNA test. My lawyer is working on a very similar case right now, and he was able to obtain an order for a dna test, but he still has to prove it's in the child's best interest to see his biological father, and he's pretty optimistic for the outcome now that they've established that he is the biological father.
But in any case, harping on the fact that we were unmarried is superfluous, it doesn't really matter in my case if we were married or not. She's almost for certain going to claim me as the father because she want's child support money, and once that's done visitation will be made available shortly thereafter.
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Dogmatique
You're not the father. Legally this child has one parent.
I am the father by definition of the word. I am the one who supplied the sperm through sexual intercourse, so anyway you want to look at it you can't change that fact. Legally the child will have two parents in any outcome of this, either I will get a DNA test or even more likely she will fill out the AOP with my information as well.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
As I said, I wont be going, and thanks for the information. That's what I was here for. That being said, morally it's offensive to think that you and others who share your opinion here don't think a father has a right to see his daughter on the day that she is born.
Be offended all you want. Being the biological parent doesn't grant you any special moral rights, and no rights in this situation until a court says you have them.
You kinda burned your rights to play daddy when you pled guilty to DV. If you truly didn't push, shove or assault her, then it's a real tragedy that you pled guilty to the offense. Unfortunately for you, you have to live with the results.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=BooRennie;835441]
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disgruntledfather
Tell me again you know what you're talking about. :wallbang:
Why don't you tell me what you're refuting instead of using lazy rhetoric and emoticons to discredit me?
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cdwjava
Be offended all you want. Being the biological parent doesn't grant you any special moral rights, and no rights in this situation until a court says you have them.
You kinda burned your rights to play daddy when you pled guilty to DV. If you truly didn't push, shove or assault her, then it's a real tragedy that you pled guilty to the offense. Unfortunately for you, you have to live with the results.
The fact that I am the biological father gives me the right to claim paternal rights. Because it is a fact that I am the biological father, based on the circumstances there is no reason I will not be able to be acknowledged as such. Shortly after the child is born, once I sort that out legally, one way or another, I will get visitation. Every lawyer I've spoken with has told me this, the DV would likely only be an obstacle if I were attempting to obtain joint physical custody. The court has the ability to stop me from seeing my child if they deem it in the child's best interests, but that's not going to happen, at least not here.
You're right it's a real tragedy that I had no other choice but to accept the plea bargain or potentially face stronger persecution. I'd also like to note that you lost your ability to play lawyer when you stated "if you didn't push, shove or assault her" as those most certainly are not the only prerequisites for a DV. Even shouting could be considered DV. If you're going to be facetious, don't leave room for scrutiny in your ignorant statements.
"cdwjava Occupation: Police Sergeant" Oh this explains everything...
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
The fact that I am the biological father gives me the right to claim paternal rights.
You can CLAIM whatever you want. Enforcing them absent a court order will be next to impossible.
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Because it is a fact that I am the biological father, based on the circumstances there is no reason I will not be able to be acknowledged as such.
Unless the woman from whose womb the child emerges chooses NOT to acknowledge you as dad.
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Shortly after the child is born, once I sort that out legally, one way or another, I will get visitation.
Probably. Kinda what I said at the start.
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You're right it's a real tragedy that I had no other choice but to accept the plea bargain or potentially face stronger persecution.
Your choice will have long term consequences. But, it was your choice and you exercised it.
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I'd also like to note that you lost your ability to play lawyer when you stated "if you didn't push, shove or assault her" as those most certainly are not the only prerequisites for a DV. Even shouting could be considered DV.
It is NOT a crime to shout at your partner. Can it be considered family violence under a state's family code, sure. But, criminally? Nope. Domestic violence as a crime involves an assault and/or battery.
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If you're going to be facetious, don't leave room for scrutiny in your ignorant statements.
"cdwjava Occupation: Police Sergeant" Oh this explains everything...
Yeah, it means I have the training and education (multiple degrees, certificates, and a teaching credential) to have learned a great deal about domestic violence and its application under the law.
Friend, I have been dealing with DV for a quarter century and have served on county and state panels concerning DV. Your state might differ in some procedural ways, but the laws are very similar through the US. I'll keep it simple for you. The term, "Domestic Violence" can be used for both the criminal act of assault and/or battery, AND it can also refer to a broader definition under a state's civil or family codes insofar as the law establishes a definition of offenses or actions that might constitute DV for purposes of custody orders, enhancements, protective orders, etc. So, there are two definitions. When we are talking about criminal acts, domestic violence refers to assault or battery. I hope that's clear.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Carl (yes, he's a cop) provides a lot of extremely useful information here. No need to be snarky. He isn't "playing lawyer." He is highly knowledgeable.
Reality: this baby won't have a legal father until it's sorted out by the court. I suggest that you file a paternity action and request visitation as soon as the baby is born. The process may take longer than you think.
A child support order will be issued (wouldn't hurt you to run the figures and start saving up now so you're ahead of the ball so to speak) and an enforceable visitation / parenting plan will be entered.
I cannot stress this enough - stay away from the hospital. If grandma has a FB page, watch it and you'll know when to proceed. Hell, you'll probably even see pics of the baby.
I also cannot stress this enough - request a DNA test. No matter how unattractive (such an odd statement) you think she is, the reality is that you won't know for sure until it's confirmed through DNA.
You know how many men have been convinced of paternity, only to find out (sometimes years later) that they aren't the bio dad? Plenty of them have posted here. If you don't and subsequently get a nasty surprise that you actually are not bio dad, you will find yourself in the unenviable position of being required to support a kid who isn't yours and you'll be stuck. This is for *your* protection.
Pissing off the volunteers here isn't a good way to get thoughtful advice and input and quite frankly, you're being kind of a dick. Just chill out, wait until the kid is born, then make your legal moves and for the love of all that is holy, stay away from the hospital.
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Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
For Pete's sake.
I thought you wanted the legalities?
As in, the difference between legal paternity and biological paternity. They are not interchangeable. Biology does NOT automatically make you the father in the legal sense.
Morality has nothing to do with this, though it's ironic that you said that. :cool:
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And you're mad at Carl? Seriously? I predict another encounter with The OG Effect very soon.