Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
As I said, I wont be going, and thanks for the information. That's what I was here for. That being said, morally it's offensive to think that you and others who share your opinion here don't think a father has a right to see his daughter on the day that she is born.
Your problem is that legally, you don't have a daughter yet. That's what happens when you procreate with a woman who is not your wife. You may want to pass that tidbit on to your men's rights friends.
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
She was 3 months pregnant, however there was no violence committed. I wasn't even arrested when this happened. I was being charged with felony interfering with a telecommunication device thanks to my county's new overzealous prosecuting attorney, and it was dropped down to misdemeanor DV as part of the plea bargain.
If you're curious to know what happened, he brother was living with us and he smokes marijuana habitually, which was also an issue I was very displeased with, and a source of much stress, but we got in an argument about her spending habits, we were supposed to be saving for a house and she wanted a new car, and she told me to leave and I said no, she said she was going to call the police and tell them that her brothers marijuana was mine, I took her phone. She tried to hit me with a 45 ounce beer bottle so I held her arm and took it our of her hand. She walked outside of the house and went to the neighbors house to call the police out of spite. The whole situation seemed weird to me, we weren't really arguing very seriously when things escalated, more just having a casual conversation while disagreeing. She never flipped out like that before, a few days before all this happened she expressed that she was no longer interested in getting married unless I changed. She likes to go out and party, and I like to stay home, long story short she thinks I'm not entertaining enough. So I honestly am somewhat convinced this was all a premeditated event to make it harder for me to receive my parental rights. I could be wrong though. There were two cops that came to the house, one was a male, and he understood my situation entirely and refused to take me to jail. The other one was a very butch female who acted like she wanted to crucify me. Ironically, she told them the truth that the marijuana was her brothers, I suspect she became afraid to lie to the police, but they didn't do anything about it regardless. He received no charges.
It's really regrettable that our system works this way. I was charged with the same crime as someone who beats women, and it really disgusting that the court can do that, but what choice did I have but to accept the plea? Pretty much none in reality, everyone knows that.
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As I said, I wont be going, and thanks for the information. That's what I was here for. That being said, morally it's offensive to think that you and others who share your opinion here don't think a father has a right to see his daughter on the day that she is born.
You're not the father. Legally this child has one parent.
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=Dogmatique;835436]
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disgruntledfather
You've got to be kidding.
True story:
Widow, husband, kids, fantastic life. I am generally the first person to jump in and defend the fathers....seriously, calm yourself down and read old threads.
Now for the notarized letter.
The court doesn't care. THINK about it. Do you understand what a notarized document does?
Why is everyone so focused on my letter of intent to claim paternity, and why is everyone so obsessed with it being notarized? All the letter does is states I am willing, and desire to claim my parental rights.
It states:
State of Michigan
County of X
In accordance with Public act 235 of 1972 as amended by Public of 1972, as amended by the Public Act of 1974 I, (name) who's address is (x) being duly sword, do hereby give notice of my intent to claim paternity of the child or children which may be born to (mothers name) who's last know address is (c) To the best of my knowledge the expected date of birth is (x) of (x) By the filing of this notice I acknowledge my liability for contribution to the support and education of such child or children when born and my liability for contribution to the pregnancy related medical expenses of the matter (my signature) Then all of the notary information follows and it ends in, this notice is filed to allow the probate court to notify the claimant at the above address in the event the child or children born are released for adoption. It is to be used to establish conclusive evidence of paternity in any action under 1956 P.A. 205 (Paternity Act). then more date and signature stuff.
My point was, it was suggested that before I am recognized as the legal father her and I both need to sign the AOP, and I'm saying while that may be true, it's like abusing a loophole in the system as I've already stated and signed that I am acknowledging that I'm the father. I have a hard time imagining a hypothetical situation in court where the AOP could be used against me sighting I haven't signed, when I have already signed other documents stating that I am such as the notice of intent to claim paternity.
And as for me calming down, that's not going to happen. I'll calm down on these forums perhaps, but I'm in a situation where the only thing I ever wanted in life (a family) is being used as a weapon against me, and I have to fight for the very right to see the child that is my own flesh and blood, that I view as an extension of my own self. All I want to do is protect my child, and I'm in a situation where I'm left completely powerless because of the way the system horribly disregards the rights of fathers.
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=disgruntledfather;835440]
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Dogmatique
Why is everyone so focused on my letter of intent to claim paternity, and why is everyone so obsessed with it being notarized? All the letter does is states I am willing, and desire to claim my parental rights.
It states:
State of Michigan
County of X
In accordance with Public act 235 of 1972 as amended by Public of 1972, as amended by the Public Act of 1974 I, (name) who's address is (x) being duly sword, do hereby give notice of my intent to claim paternity of the child or children which may be born to (mothers name) who's last know address is (c) To the best of my knowledge the expected date of birth is (x) of (x) By the filing of this notice I acknowledge my liability for contribution to the support and education of such child or children when born and my liability for contribution to the pregnancy related medical expenses of the matter (my signature) Then all of the notary information follows and it ends in, this notice is filed to allow the probate court to notify the claimant at the above address in the event the child or children born are released for adoption. It is to be used to establish conclusive evidence of paternity in any action under 1956 P.A. 205 (Paternity Act). then more date and signature stuff.
My point was, it was suggested that before I am recognized as the legal father her and I both need to sign the AOP, and I'm saying while that may be true, it's like abusing a loophole in the system as I've already stated and signed that I am acknowledging that I'm the father. I have a hard time imagining a hypothetical situation in court where the AOP could be used against me sighting I haven't signed, when I have already signed other documents stating that I am such as the notice of intent to claim paternity.
Tell me again you know what you're talking about. :wallbang:
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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geek
Your problem is that legally, you don't have a daughter yet. That's what happens when you procreate with a woman who is not your wife. You may want to pass that tidbit on to your men's rights friends.
You are right about that, it was a poor choice on my part. I am 28, and I've waited this long, she is 30 and also had no children, I thought for many reasons that I had met the perfect match, but it was a very poor choice on my part. I don't have men's rights friends, but I hope to have some in the future, I'm considering starting a local group.
I'm not sure about other states, but I know here in Michigan the rights of an unmarried father and a married father are almost identical. The only was that would have caused me a problem is if she was married to someone else when we procreated, even then though with the amount of evidence I have of her stating that I'm the father, including on the police report for the fantasy DV, I don't think even then it would be an issue for me to get a order for a DNA test. My lawyer is working on a very similar case right now, and he was able to obtain an order for a dna test, but he still has to prove it's in the child's best interest to see his biological father, and he's pretty optimistic for the outcome now that they've established that he is the biological father.
But in any case, harping on the fact that we were unmarried is superfluous, it doesn't really matter in my case if we were married or not. She's almost for certain going to claim me as the father because she want's child support money, and once that's done visitation will be made available shortly thereafter.
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Dogmatique
You're not the father. Legally this child has one parent.
I am the father by definition of the word. I am the one who supplied the sperm through sexual intercourse, so anyway you want to look at it you can't change that fact. Legally the child will have two parents in any outcome of this, either I will get a DNA test or even more likely she will fill out the AOP with my information as well.
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
As I said, I wont be going, and thanks for the information. That's what I was here for. That being said, morally it's offensive to think that you and others who share your opinion here don't think a father has a right to see his daughter on the day that she is born.
Be offended all you want. Being the biological parent doesn't grant you any special moral rights, and no rights in this situation until a court says you have them.
You kinda burned your rights to play daddy when you pled guilty to DV. If you truly didn't push, shove or assault her, then it's a real tragedy that you pled guilty to the offense. Unfortunately for you, you have to live with the results.
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
[QUOTE=BooRennie;835441]
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disgruntledfather
Tell me again you know what you're talking about. :wallbang:
Why don't you tell me what you're refuting instead of using lazy rhetoric and emoticons to discredit me?
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cdwjava
Be offended all you want. Being the biological parent doesn't grant you any special moral rights, and no rights in this situation until a court says you have them.
You kinda burned your rights to play daddy when you pled guilty to DV. If you truly didn't push, shove or assault her, then it's a real tragedy that you pled guilty to the offense. Unfortunately for you, you have to live with the results.
The fact that I am the biological father gives me the right to claim paternal rights. Because it is a fact that I am the biological father, based on the circumstances there is no reason I will not be able to be acknowledged as such. Shortly after the child is born, once I sort that out legally, one way or another, I will get visitation. Every lawyer I've spoken with has told me this, the DV would likely only be an obstacle if I were attempting to obtain joint physical custody. The court has the ability to stop me from seeing my child if they deem it in the child's best interests, but that's not going to happen, at least not here.
You're right it's a real tragedy that I had no other choice but to accept the plea bargain or potentially face stronger persecution. I'd also like to note that you lost your ability to play lawyer when you stated "if you didn't push, shove or assault her" as those most certainly are not the only prerequisites for a DV. Even shouting could be considered DV. If you're going to be facetious, don't leave room for scrutiny in your ignorant statements.
"cdwjava Occupation: Police Sergeant" Oh this explains everything...
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
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disgruntledfather
The fact that I am the biological father gives me the right to claim paternal rights.
You can CLAIM whatever you want. Enforcing them absent a court order will be next to impossible.
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Because it is a fact that I am the biological father, based on the circumstances there is no reason I will not be able to be acknowledged as such.
Unless the woman from whose womb the child emerges chooses NOT to acknowledge you as dad.
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Shortly after the child is born, once I sort that out legally, one way or another, I will get visitation.
Probably. Kinda what I said at the start.
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You're right it's a real tragedy that I had no other choice but to accept the plea bargain or potentially face stronger persecution.
Your choice will have long term consequences. But, it was your choice and you exercised it.
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I'd also like to note that you lost your ability to play lawyer when you stated "if you didn't push, shove or assault her" as those most certainly are not the only prerequisites for a DV. Even shouting could be considered DV.
It is NOT a crime to shout at your partner. Can it be considered family violence under a state's family code, sure. But, criminally? Nope. Domestic violence as a crime involves an assault and/or battery.
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If you're going to be facetious, don't leave room for scrutiny in your ignorant statements.
"cdwjava Occupation: Police Sergeant" Oh this explains everything...
Yeah, it means I have the training and education (multiple degrees, certificates, and a teaching credential) to have learned a great deal about domestic violence and its application under the law.
Friend, I have been dealing with DV for a quarter century and have served on county and state panels concerning DV. Your state might differ in some procedural ways, but the laws are very similar through the US. I'll keep it simple for you. The term, "Domestic Violence" can be used for both the criminal act of assault and/or battery, AND it can also refer to a broader definition under a state's civil or family codes insofar as the law establishes a definition of offenses or actions that might constitute DV for purposes of custody orders, enhancements, protective orders, etc. So, there are two definitions. When we are talking about criminal acts, domestic violence refers to assault or battery. I hope that's clear.
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
Carl (yes, he's a cop) provides a lot of extremely useful information here. No need to be snarky. He isn't "playing lawyer." He is highly knowledgeable.
Reality: this baby won't have a legal father until it's sorted out by the court. I suggest that you file a paternity action and request visitation as soon as the baby is born. The process may take longer than you think.
A child support order will be issued (wouldn't hurt you to run the figures and start saving up now so you're ahead of the ball so to speak) and an enforceable visitation / parenting plan will be entered.
I cannot stress this enough - stay away from the hospital. If grandma has a FB page, watch it and you'll know when to proceed. Hell, you'll probably even see pics of the baby.
I also cannot stress this enough - request a DNA test. No matter how unattractive (such an odd statement) you think she is, the reality is that you won't know for sure until it's confirmed through DNA.
You know how many men have been convinced of paternity, only to find out (sometimes years later) that they aren't the bio dad? Plenty of them have posted here. If you don't and subsequently get a nasty surprise that you actually are not bio dad, you will find yourself in the unenviable position of being required to support a kid who isn't yours and you'll be stuck. This is for *your* protection.
Pissing off the volunteers here isn't a good way to get thoughtful advice and input and quite frankly, you're being kind of a dick. Just chill out, wait until the kid is born, then make your legal moves and for the love of all that is holy, stay away from the hospital.
Re: Does an Unmarried Father Have the Right to See His Child at Hospital when Born
For Pete's sake.
I thought you wanted the legalities?
As in, the difference between legal paternity and biological paternity. They are not interchangeable. Biology does NOT automatically make you the father in the legal sense.
Morality has nothing to do with this, though it's ironic that you said that. :cool:
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And you're mad at Carl? Seriously? I predict another encounter with The OG Effect very soon.