Shoplifting at Macy's in Massachusetts

My question involves criminal law for the state of: MA

I have a few questions. Please don't judge me for what I did; I made a poor decision, and now I regret it more than anything I have ever done. I'm not a bad person. I'm really not.

A few days ago, I took some clothes from Macy's in Boston, and I was stopped by loss prevention personnel on my way out. They took me to a room in the basement of the mall, and had me sit on a bench while they processed some paper work (one of the employees took a picture of me with his phone). They went through my bag and my shopping bag and pulled out the items I took. I admitted to everything I did, and they had me sign some papers testifying to that. I was literally in tears throughout the entire process. They said the police would be there soon, even though I repeatedly requested them not to do so. I promised that I would never come back to the store again or to repeat my actions. I also offered to pay the value of the goods that I had taken. In the end the police never came, and the staff said it was because they called off the report.

They did however make me pay $100 out of $500 in civil demands, and the expectation was that I would pay the rest later. They also said that Macy's would prosecute me, and that I could expect a notice to appear in court in the mail. The LP officer said that though he sympathized with me, he still had to do his job and follow company policy. He said that, at the hearing, the clerk would decide whether or not to bring the case before a judge. He said that most of the times, the clerk will hold the case for six months, and, if there is no further criminal activity, the case would be dismissed without ever appearing on record. This is somewhat different from what I've read online; it seemed to me that the clerk magistrate hearing simply determines if there is probable cause to file charges, not how to proceed with them. Right now, I'm scared more than I describe about what's going to happen next. I don't know if Macy's will actually prosecute the case, or if they will only make a civl demand. The items I took were valued at roughly $105. I have never been arrested or charged with anything before. Not even a parking ticket. I don't know what to do.

>In your experience, given what transpired, how likely is it that Macy's will prosecute? Does paying the civil demand reduce the probability of such action? I understand that the civil demand, and criminal complain are two completely separate processes, but there must be some correlation between them.
>Why would Macy's prosecute later on, when they could have done so in the moment by calling the police to the scene?
>When seeking legal counsel (assuming I do get a notice to appear) should I admit to my wrong doing, or should I just say I never did anything wrong?
>What chances do you think I have of having the case dismissed at the clerical level?
> Is there any merit to trying to negotiate with Macy's with the assistance of an attorney? I would be willing to pay a significantly higher amount than the one that they are asking seeking if it means that they would not prosecute me - I'd much rather have the peace of mind of putting this all behind me without a entry on my record.
>Finally, I'm not a U.S citizen. I'm currently in the process of applying to adjust my status to a Permanent Resident. What consequences do you think this may have on on my immigration status?

I'd appreciate your thoughtful advice on this matter.

~R

Macy's doesn't get to decide whether to prosecute or not. It is society that is harmed and it is the Commonwealth of Massachusetts that will decide whether to prosecute you or not. What makes you think it wasn't already passed to the police. If it went to the magistrate, the state knows about it.

Shoplifting is a crime involving moral turpitude. It could very much derail both your LPR application as well as whatever basis you are using to be in the country currently while you are crapping on the US, its people and laws.

This is another one of those veiled threats we discussed in another thread yesterday. The phraseology is loose but the implication is clear. Pay the civil demand without argument and we will not press charges. Macy's has a video system that can tell you the size of a booger in your nose.

There are a couple of reasons why I think that state officials weren't involved, at least at the time that I was being held.

For one, I think to some extent the LPs were bluffing. My understanding is that one does not simply call the police (especially in a mall that already has its own police security detail), and then call them off at one's discretion. Even if the LP actually did that, I would the imagine the police would regardless arrive at the scene, at the very least to write a police log report. Second, I would imagine that Macy's, not the LP officers, would press charges based on the statements I signed, and video surveillance if can support their allegations. If the LPs were to press charges, they would have to call the police, and then the police would in turn prosecute on their behalf.

I don't know why you would negatively refer to my presence and activity in the U.S. I'll just say that you don't know me as a person and leave it at that.

They were bluffing about calling a LEO. See my previous post. That does not mean they will not press criminal charges if you fail to pay the civil demand.

I'm more interested in the rationale behind your recommendation than the actual recommendation itself. I don't see why they wouldn't explicitly threaten to file criminal charges, rather than just threaten to pursue a civil lawsuit.

If they've made a complaint through the Massachusetts Clerk-Magistrate procedure it is not an idle threat. The wheels of prosecution have commenced. Yes it is possible that the clerk-magistrate will hold the complaint as alluded to.

There is NO requirement that the police show up at the store to arrest you. It doesn't work like you see on TV. The clerk-magistrate is the way charges are brought in Massachusetts (whether instigated by the store or the police).

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Quoting flyingron

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If they've made a complaint through the Massachusetts Clerk-Magistrate procedure it is not an idle threat. The wheels of prosecution have commenced. Yes it is possible that the clerk-magistrate will hold the complaint as alluded to.

There is NO requirement that the police show up at the store to arrest you. It doesn't work like you see on TV. The clerk-magistrate is the way charges are brought in Massachusetts (whether instigated by the store or the police).

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I never said that going to the clerk magistrate is an idle threat. I'm very well aware of the seriousness of such a course of action. Which is why I'm concerned. My question, or at least one of my questions was: Based on experience, and empirical data, how likely is it that Macy's is actually going to prosecute, given how the LPs handled my situation. When escorting me out, the LP essentially told me that he could have handled my case differently. He also kept asking if I was okay when we were in his office, because I was so upset. It was an odd combination of a tough yet sympathetic disposition.

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Quoting rafaesf

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I never said that going to the clerk magistrate is an idle threat. I'm very well aware of the seriousness of such a course of action. Which is why I'm concerned. My question, or at least one of my questions was: Based on experience, and empirical data, how likely is it that Macy's is actually going to prosecute, given how the LPs handled my situation. When escorting me out, the LP essentially told me that he could have handled my case differently. He also kept asking if I was okay when we were in his office, because I was so upset. It was an odd combination of a tough yet sympathetic disposition.

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They are trained to do that so that the thief will be quiescent.

I did a little googling and found that your same question has been asked many, many times by many of your fellow criminals. Yet I found only a couple of references to people actually getting arrested and prosecuted.

Perhaps it is a bluff just to get you to pay the civil demand. Perhaps it's not. After all, the store doesn't have to report it right away. It has your confession and all the evidence to go along with it. It can turn it over to the authorities at any time.

Do you want to roll the dice?

Do you feel lucky?

Well, do ya, punk?

(That's my best Clint Eastwood impersonation.)

It is the difference between compelling the payment of a legal civil demand without court action and extortion.

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Quoting adjusterjack

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They are trained to do that so that the thief will be quiescent.

I did a little googling and found that your same question has been asked many, many times by many of your fellow criminals. Yet I found only a couple of references to people actually getting arrested and prosecuted.

Perhaps it is a bluff just to get you to pay the civil demand. Perhaps it's not. After all, the store doesn't have to report it right away. It has your confession and all the evidence to go along with it. It can turn it over to the authorities at any time.

Do you want to roll the dice?

Do you feel lucky?

Well, do ya, punk?

(That's my best Clint Eastwood impersonation.)

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I think generally speaking that people will mostly seek advice online if their situation was serious enough to warrant that request for advice. Naturally, I would expect that the search results would be very skewed. Unless you are able to find an online record of every shoplifting incident along with it's outcome, I doubt you'd be able to tell how a certain case would proceed. I was hoping that someone with a heart, and sufficient experience for that matter, would be able to tell me something that I would not otherwise be able to find out by "googling" this case, which by the way, is something I am quite capable of doing myself. Given how you are referring to me and "[my] fellow criminals", I'm not inclined to think you are genuinely trying to help.

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Quoting Disagreeable

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It is the difference between compelling the payment of a legal civil demand without court action and extortion.

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Yes, I would think that it would be in everyone's interests if they were straightforward about how to proceed. If they were willing to drop charges if I made a payment, then wouldn't they be willing to enter a negotiation first, and make their demands. This is something that I asked about in one of my questions. If they were willing to drop the charges in exchange of a payment, I would accept that offer. It seems to me what you're saying is that they're not allowed to make such an offer because it would be viewed as extortion, but they can elect not to exercise their right to prosecute if I make the payment.

And I think it would be in everyone's interests if there were penalties high enough to act as a deterrent. All your whining about what a bad mistake you made and how bad you feel about it don't sound very creditable when you're here trying to find ways to avoid penalties or taking any responsibility for what you did.

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Quoting rafaesf

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Yes, I would think that it would be in everyone's interests if they were straightforward about how to proceed. If they were willing to drop charges if I made a payment, then wouldn't they be willing to enter a negotiation first, and make their demands. This is something that I asked about in one of my questions. If they were willing to drop the charges in exchange of a payment, I would accept that offer. It seems to me what you're saying is that they're not allowed to make such an offer because it would be viewed as extortion, but they can elect not to exercise their right to prosecute if I make the payment.

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It's not extortion.

And it's ludicrous for you to think you have even the slightest bit of leverage here.

If I understand the poster here, it's already been submitted to the clerk-magistrate. He's got wishful thinking (given by the LP guy) that the clerk-magistrate will hold the criminal charges for a while and then dismiss them. That's a possibility and perhaps the fact that he's paid restitution will influence the c-m, but pretty much if Macy's has submitted them to the c-m, he'd be advised to have a lawyer with him when they go in for the hearing.

It is again strenuously NOT the case that criminal charges are not coming because there was no police or arrest at the scene. If Macy's says they are filing with the C-M he can count on having to show cause there why he shouldn't be charged.

First of all if you never shoplifted in the first place you would not be here asking us what can or can't take place. You decided to commit the crime and now its time to pay the fine.

I would first of all retain a lawyer on contingency and get a free consultation. If this is your first offense you can ask for a Diversion and do community service in addition to paying the Civil Demand and any other costs associated with it.

Secondly stay out of any Macys your Ban is most likely for all Macy Stores and their Parent Companies. Perhaps you can write to Macy's Corporate in 6 months or when your Civil Demand has been paid off to lift the ban. If they decide to lift the ban then hang on to the letter for sometime and show it if you are stopped by LP for tresspassing.

Also your name may have been entered into the National Theft Retail Database and any companies that subscribe to it will be able to see your name and any employment in retail will be almost impossible to get and if you are currently working in retail they may run another background check and you could be released from your duties when they see this shoplifting charge.

You may not be able to apply for University Programs that deals with working with the Public such as Nursing, Accounting or other careers that involve managing money/finances.

I would start preparing a course of action and hope for the best outcome possible. Remember its the people of MA who decide your fate. Don't use any excuses such as "I forgot to take my medication" as the Judge has heard it all.

Respond tot he Judge Yes your Honor No your Honor. Do not ramble on just answer the questions truthfully and to the point. Dress as if your going to an Interview, leave all electronics in your car and no not bring food or chew gum. Be respectful to those you come into contact with.

And learn your lesson as if you commit another crime your consequences will be harsher such as doing some time in jail.

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Quoting travelplus

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First of all if you never shoplifted in the first place you would not be here asking us what can or can't take place. You decided to commit the crime and now its time to pay the fine.

I would first of all retain a lawyer on contingency and get a free consultation. If this is your first offense you can ask for a Diversion and do community service in addition to paying the Civil Demand and any other costs associated with it.

Secondly stay out of any Macys your Ban is most likely for all Macy Stores and their Parent Companies. Perhaps you can write to Macy's Corporate in 6 months or when your Civil Demand has been paid off to lift the ban. If they decide to lift the ban then hang on to the letter for sometime and show it if you are stopped by LP for tresspassing.

Also your name may have been entered into the National Theft Retail Database and any companies that subscribe to it will be able to see your name and any employment in retail will be almost impossible to get and if you are currently working in retail they may run another background check and you could be released from your duties when they see this shoplifting charge.

You may not be able to apply for University Programs that deals with working with the Public such as Nursing, Accounting or other careers that involve managing money/finances.

I would start preparing a course of action and hope for the best outcome possible. Remember its the people of MA who decide your fate. Don't use any excuses such as "I forgot to take my medication" as the Judge has heard it all.

Respond tot he Judge Yes your Honor No your Honor. Do not ramble on just answer the questions truthfully and to the point. Dress as if your going to an Interview, leave all electronics in your car and no not bring food or chew gum. Be respectful to those you come into contact with.

And learn your lesson as if you commit another crime your consequences will be harsher such as doing some time in jail.

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Well, I don't know yet if this will go before a judge. I don't know if Macy's will even prosecute to begin with. If they did, my hope is to have the case dismissed at the clerk-magistrate hearing. My main concern was if Macy's was likely to prosecute, and whether my paying the civil demand had any bearing on that decision. Many thanks for the advice on how to conduct myself before a judge, though.

Macy's genreally does not get to decide whether to prosecute. If they started the clerk-magistrate process, the wheels of prosecution have started. While you can quibble over the person holding the show cause hearing, you should TREAT HIM as if he was the chief justice of the US Supreme Court.