Re: Family Vacation with 16yr Old and Other Parent Says, "No."
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tex11
The legally correct answer is to simply not take your son on this trip. It's not the end of the world and not worth turning into a pissing contest. There is no nice way to say "sorry but your father is not allowing you to go on this trip...", because that is a fact your son already understands.
From a risk perspective it is unlikely there will be any legal repercussions of consequence. Since you have not been back to court in 10 years, is the father willing to retain an attorney at considerable expense and time to file a motion for contempt for what may be dubious and uncertain results? However, even if you only get a wrist slap, he may be entitled to have you pay his attorney fees for bringing the contempt motion, since even a wrist slap will make him the prevailing party on a contempt motion. And that may sting you a little harder than the wrist slap.
If he does not go to court, he may bide his time for an opportunity to take your son on a short "vacation" at a time that will be inconvenient for you and against your wishes.
The most sensible option is to adhere to the letter of the custody order. If the father is not allowing you to have Junior on his time, then the fathers wishes prevail. And from there the honorable and responsible thing to do as a parent is just drop it and leave it at that, and not try to get even by encouraging your son to be angry with his father over this.
I really do not agree with this advice. I think that following this advice would guarantee significant damage in the relationship between your son and his father for no reasonable reason. I also think that once dad cools down he will realize that himself.
However I do think that following the parenting schedule rather than allowing your son to decide where he sleeps at night would probably be wise. That is potentially a far more significant issue than vacation.
Re: Family Vacation with 16yr Old and Other Parent Says, "No."
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llworking
I really do not agree with this advice. I think that following this advice would guarantee significant damage in the relationship between your son and his father for no reasonable reason. I also think that once dad cools down he will realize that himself.
However I do think that following the parenting schedule rather than allowing your son to decide where he sleeps at night would probably be wise. That is potentially a far more significant issue than vacation.
First you say you do "not agree" with my advice to accept the father's wishes and follow the Court Order, then turn right around and state that following the parenting schedule "would be wise".
And you argue that accepting the fathers wishes and following the court order "...would guarantee significant damage in the relationship between son and his father for no reasonable reason"
Are you or are you not advising the mother to disregard the father's wishes and violate the court order??
Or are you suggesting that if mother ignores the father's wishes he will come around and see the error of his way, and that everything will be cool? And that a mother encouraging her son to complicity agree to disregard his father's wishes and not return home when expected to is a good thing? This because the benefit gained from a short vacation will be less damaging than the inevitable fallout?
Re: Family Vacation with 16yr Old and Other Parent Says, "No."
Given the feedback, maybe the bigger issue is allowing him to make the decision of where to stay... I (we) have felt that if one household has something "fun" going on and the other is just doing laundry, then he should be able to decide where he wants to be, and we were both ok with that. This "freedom" was not the norm up until maybe a couple years ago, but he's older now, and I just don't see the point of "forcing" him to stay home just because it's my night/day.
I see this issue with his dad and our family vacations as a way of him trying to have control. I have dealt with verbal and physical abuse from him in the past and also had an OFP against him. He's exhausting. Up until the day I told him I would no longer engage in verbal communication with him, there has never been a big issue when it comes to changing our son's schedule.
Even though my son can see the bigger picture of what's going on, I don't allow him to be disrespectful. His dad is creating a rift between them, not just with this, but with telling him "lies" about me. I don't think he realizes that we have a relationship that is very honest and we can talk about everything. My son even told me that just the other night his dad was upset he had to pick him up from a friends, they got into it, and his dad actually asked him if he would rather just live with me. Even though I would like nothing more, I let my son know his dad didn't mean that and was just mad...
But getting back to the issue, if we go to court over this, the fact that there has not been a problem with changing the schedule until I decided not to tolerate any more intimidation, I think would be in my favor. Also, why all of a sudden would I be in contempt of court, when I wasn't just 2 weeks ago when my son came home for 3 of the days he was "supposed" to be at his dad's? If he chose to wait and take a vacation that was "inconvenient" for me, it's unlikely that would happen. We have rearranged our schedule numerous times to accommodate. I would not tell my son he couldn't participate in a family vacation and would let him make that choice, even if we had plans...
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If I would be in contempt of court for not bringing my son to his dad's, on "his" day, would I not also be in contempt of court if I went on our vacations & didn't have him on "my" days? Am I only allowed to plan a vacation with his dad's approval and vice versa? Seems ridiculous that either one of us should have that control...
Re: Family Vacation with 16yr Old and Other Parent Says, "No."
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Paco01
Am I only allowed to plan a vacation with his dad's approval and vice versa? Seems ridiculous that either one of us should have that control...
You are only allowed to impede on dad's time with dad's permission. Just like you don't want him "controlling" you, you can't do it to him either. As for why you weren't in contempt 2 weeks ago, dad didn't have a problem with it 2 weeks ago. This isn't a case of well.... you allowed it once, so I'm gonna do whatever the hell I wanna do forever and you get to be the meanie if you don't let me.
Deciding to let a child make decisions based on where things are going to be "fun" IN MY OPINION, is doing this child SUCH a disservice because guess what? IN LIFE, after he leaves his mommy's house (if he ever leaves his mommy's house) there will be a multitude of times where he's not going to be able to do or go somewhere fun. What your son sees as his dad's "lies" are probably just dad's version of the truth, just as this post is YOUR version of the truth. The real truth? It generally ALWAYS lies somewhere in the middle.
You're no victim here and dad is no villain. If nothing else, BOTH of you are wrong.
Re: The Other Parent Won't Permit a Family Vacation With Our Teenaged Child
Your "tag line" says a lot about you, as well as do your posts. I don't find your replys to be anything more than un-cerebral, emotional rants by someone who's obviously been hurt & needs to make it known.
Re: The Other Parent Won't Permit a Family Vacation With Our Teenaged Child
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Paco01
Your "tag line" says a lot about you, as well as do your posts. I don't find your replys to be anything more than un-cerebral, emotional rants by someone who's obviously been hurt & needs to make it known.
If you're going to say someone's words are un-cerebral, you probably want to make sure you spell "replies" correctly first.
Moving on.
For whatever reason, this teen has been allowed to rule the roost to at least some degree and none of us can change that. There are circumstances where I'd agree with Llw that putting the foot down could damage the relationship for a long time to come.
But in this instance, I'm with CC & Tex. Stick to the darned court order. If Junior is going to get pissy with Dad over this, he's going to get pissy at some point no matter what else happens because this is the situation the parents have created and they only have themselves to blame.
Allowing Junior to call the shots obviously hasn't worked too well (because I promise you, he doesn't respect you for it) and Dad may as well try to instill at least some semblance of respect for authority while he still has a shot.
Frankly, you both messed up.
Re: The Other Parent Won't Permit a Family Vacation With Our Teenaged Child
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Quoting
Paco01
Your "tag line" says a lot about you, as well as do your posts. I don't find your replys to be anything more than un-cerebral, emotional rants by someone who's obviously been hurt & needs to make it known.
Absolutely I am if that's what you want me to be.
BTW... my husband and I don't have this problem and my sons don't either. Sounds to me like you could learn something from me.