Can You Be Fired by a Co-Worker Who is Not Your Supervisor
My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: CA
Please note: My case involves both termination AND unemployment benefit issues
OK, a little background:
I have been working at my current job, full-time, for approx. 11 months. Ever since day one, I have had an "ongoing personality conflict" with a co-worker. He has been working there for 10+ years and is a very valuable employee to the business. But, he is one of those "type A personalities" who has a very bad bedside manner, and very unprofessional. Not to mention that he is very abrasive, and, in general, a very difficult person to be around ... let alone work with. For the most part, the other employees tend to get along with him on the surface, but nobody ever gets real close or personal with the guy ... they keep a safe distance. In other words, although valuable as far as being a highly productive employee, the guy is a major D*CK with a capital D! (BTW, he even acts like a jerk to customers as well, and has pushed some away, where they will never come back).
When I was hired almost a year ago, I was hired under the pretense that the position was permanent. However, after being there for about 6 months, I had learned that there was another employee (young, fresh out of school) who was hired for my position but he did not have the same state licenses that I have. He thought he did, so did they (the place I work at) but it wasn't so. However, he was such an outstanding employee that they chose to keep him there and do other job duties until he got the correct license. Well, earlier this week, he did just that ... he took a test and now has the same license provisions that I do and can do my job.
Now, they technically don't need me anymore ... as of this week. And guess what? Surprise, surprise, surprise! The long time employee, the one that I have a personality conflict with, decided to fire me today!
I have been anticipating this to happen. As a matter of fact, I have been applying, interviewing, and looking for jobs for the last 3 months now, even though I have (had) a job until today.
Anyways, let me get down to the nitty-gritty of how it went down:
First of all, the owner of the business was out of town today. And the office manager hadn't arrived yet. So, the coworker with the 10+ years, was sort-of unofficially in charge ... even though I have NEVER been told that he is my direct supervisor. I have NEVER officially been instructed to take ANY orders from him. And, nobody told me or anyone else that this guy was in charge for today.
What happened is that the young guy was attempting to use a piece of equipment that I had been operating since day one, and have had that duty, which was my responsibility. However, the "man in chartge for today" decided to barge in, call me an "A**HOLE" and tod me to clock out and go home.
He said, "you are fired, get your S*IT out of here ... you don't work here no more!"
Sidenote: This guy has been wanting a raise for a long time (been askin g for several years) but has been turned down, because the company's payroll dept could not afford it.(not without getting rid of somebody!)
My questions:
Can this guy do this? (fire me even though he is not officially my supervisor)
What recourse do I have?
Can I claim that I was fired wrongful termination? Or for an illegit/unjust cause?
The reason I ask is that I may now have to try to file for unemployment.
(Another side note: I briefly discussed this with my real supervisor over the phone, although he was out f town, and he said for me to come in to work Monday and see if we can all sit down and "work it out").
Question:
Am I now at any obligation to accept "new terms" or is my employee/employer relationship now terminated?
Do I have to try to "work out my differences" with the guy, or or can I file and get unemployment benefits now?
The reason I ask this is because nothing is likely going to change. In a week or two, the guy is just going to do the same thing ... until he ultimately gets the main supervisor behind him and then I will be terminated and have ZERO recourse.
Perhaps I still DO have recourse at THIS time, but not if we "try to work things out" and in a few weeks the SOB gets me fired for a "valid" reason !?!?!?
Thoughts?
Re: Terminated by Coworker, Not by Supervisor
Quote:
Quoting
gonzodude
My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: CA
Please note: My case involves both termination AND unemployment benefit issues
OK, a little background:
I have been working at my current job, full-time, for approx. 11 months. Ever since day one, I have had an "ongoing personality conflict" with a co-worker. He has been working there for 10+ years and is a very valuable employee to the business. But, he is one of those "type A personalities" who has a very bad bedside manner, and very unprofessional. Not to mention that he is very abrasive, and, in general, a very difficult person to be around ... let alone work with. For the most part, the other employees tend to get along with him on the surface, but nobody ever gets real close or personal with the guy ... they keep a safe distance. In other words, although valuable as far as being a highly productive employee, the guy is a major D*CK with a capital D! (BTW, he even acts like a jerk to customers as well, and has pushed some away, where they will never come back).
Well, if your disdain is as clear as it is here, you can understand HIS attitude a little, no?
Quote:
When I was hired almost a year ago, I was hired under the pretense that the position was permanent. However, after being there for about 6 months, I had learned that there was another employee (young, fresh out of school) who was hired for my position but he did not have the same state licenses that I have. He thought he did, so did they (the place I work at) but it wasn't so. However, he was such an outstanding employee that they chose to keep him there and do other job duties until he got the correct license. Well, earlier this week, he did just that ... he took a test and now has the same license provisions that I do and can do my job.
Okay - nothing illegal there.
Quote:
Now, they technically don't need me anymore ... as of this week. And guess what? Surprise, surprise, surprise! The long time employee, the one that I have a personality conflict with, decided to fire me today!
I have been anticipating this to happen. As a matter of fact, I have been applying, interviewing, and looking for jobs for the last 3 months now, even though I have (had) a job until today.
Anyways, let me get down to the nitty-gritty of how it went down:
First of all, the owner of the business was out of town today. And the office manager hadn't arrived yet. So, the coworker with the 10+ years, was sort-of unofficially in charge ... even though I have NEVER been told that he is my direct supervisor. I have NEVER officially been instructed to take ANY orders from him. And, nobody told me or anyone else that this guy was in charge for today.
What happened is that the young guy was attempting to use a piece of equipment that I had been operating since day one, and have had that duty, which was my responsibility. However, the "man in chartge for today" decided to barge in, call me an "A**HOLE" and tod me to clock out and go home.
He said, "you are fired, get your S*IT out of here ... you don't work here no more!"
Sidenote: This guy has been wanting a raise for a long time (been askin g for several years) but has been turned down, because the company's payroll dept could not afford it.(not without getting rid of somebody!)
My questions:
Can this guy do this? (fire me even though he is not officially my supervisor)
Does it matter? You'd be fired anyway.
Quote:
What recourse do I have?
Get another job and/or apply for UI.
Quote:
Can I claim that I was fired wrongful termination? Or for an illegit/unjust cause?
Uh....no. You can be fired for wearing green socks - it's a myth that there has to be a reason. This is not a wrongful term. by any means.
Quote:
The reason I ask is that I may now have to try to file for unemployment.
(Another side note: I briefly discussed this with my real supervisor over the phone, although he was out f town, and he said for me to come in to work Monday and see if we can all sit down and "work it out").
Question:
Am I now at any obligation to accept "new terms" or is my employee/employer relationship now terminated?
What you do now is entirely up to you.
Quote:
Do I have to try to "work out my differences" with the guy, or or can I file and get unemployment benefits now?
The reason I ask this is because nothing is likely going to change. In a week or two, the guy is just going to do the same thing ... until he ultimately gets the main supervisor behind him and then I will be terminated and have ZERO recourse.
Perhaps I still DO have recourse at THIS time, but not if we "try to work things out" and in a few weeks the SOB gets me fired for a "valid" reason !?!?!?
Thoughts?
You've got no recourse at all. Even now. I'm not sure why you think that you do.
Re: Terminated by Coworker, Not by Supervisor
I would at least go in and have the meeting with your main supervisor...it might result in squat, but at least they won't be able to claim that you quit based on a disagreement with a coworker.
Re: Terminated by Coworker, Not by Supervisor
My questions:
Can this guy do this? (fire me even though he is not officially my supervisor) The law does not give two hoots who fires you. If the company authorizes him to fire you, then he can fire you and the law isn't going to say he can't.
What recourse do I have? You can go to the boss and ask if you're really fired. But if you are, then that's that. Nothing you have posted suggests a wrongful termination as defined by law or that you would have any legal recourse.
Can I claim that I was fired wrongful termination? Or for an illegit/unjust cause? See above. Then google At-Will employment.
Am I now at any obligation to accept "new terms" or is my employee/employer relationship now terminated? You are not legally at under any obligation to accept new terms, but if your manager says you're not fired but there are new terms and you quit because you don't like them, unemployment becomes a very grey area.
Do I have to try to "work out my differences" with the guy, or or can I file and get unemployment benefits now? Legally? Up to you. But once again, IF your manager says you're not fired, and you apply for unemployment, good luck getting it.
Re: Terminated by Coworker, Not by Supervisor
I kinda figured that I was just screwed. But, I guess what I'm getting at is that the coworker who I have a conflict with WILL eventually get me fired, probably sooner than I am financially prepared for. (I am in the process of filing chapter 7 BK now too).
RE: "at will employment"
Yes, I am familiar with this. But, he had no reason to fire me. He did not give me one. And there was no "disagreement" between us. He walked up to me (unprovoked, for no reason, and out of the blue) straight up called me an "A**Hole" and then told me to clock out and go home, and that I was fired. No explanation, even after I asked for one. I t was quite obvious that he was waiting for that particular opportune time to do exactly what he did. This was a 1 hour window (between 8 and 9 am on Fri. morning) when the main boss was gone for the day and the office manager didn't come in until 9am. The whole thing was deliberate and definitely planned on his part. At about 8:30 after I left I called the main boss and he couldn't even believe that it happened.
Sidenote: the office manager likes me and would NEVER have allowed this other guy to get away with what he did. He would have told the coworker to calm down and probably would've told me to go back to work, and we will resolve this when the head boss comes back to work Monday. That's why the coworker picked that exact one hour window. Totally premeditated.
The "coworker" is the boss's right-hand man, and he values him tremendously. The coworker knows it too. He knows that he will get what HE wants. In other words the head boss is a pushover.
But here's another thing ...
The coworker has a reputation for playing "dirty pool" this way, because the whole reason why both myself, as well as the young kid, were hired is because the coworker has had the SAME EXACT PROBLEM with the PREVIOUS employee who held the same position as me. And the one before that, and the one before that .... etc... there is a definite pattern, although I know this would be hard to prove.
The boss just wants to keep someone at the position, but is a "softy" when it comes to letting people go. He doesn't do such things. He will cut hours way down, reduce pay, etc, but never fire people. So, what ends up happening is the person who has my position always winds up quitting because he just can't get along with the unsavory coworker. Or, they can't live with the lesser pay and hours.
I know this is true because a few days ago (on Thurs, the day before the incident happened) I had a talk with the previous employee who had my job. He has been working at another company for the past 12 months and he told me that this is exactly why he quit - he couldn't get along with that coworker either, and he nothing but BAD things to say about the guy. He called him every name in the book!
So I guess I'm thinking that it is pointless to try "work things out" when, one way or another, I am going to lose my job anyways. But, because of my financial circumstance, I really need to get unemployment. I do think that I should be entitled to it. I was hired as permanent, but now it is apparent that I am just a temp.
Re: Terminated by Coworker, Not by Supervisor
Entirely up to you.
The whole point of at-will employment is that you can quit for any reason at all, and you can be fired for any reason not expressly prohibited by law. This INCLUDES no reason.
No laws have been violated. It's your choice whether you want to accept his firing you, have the meeting with your boss, or what.
Re: Terminated by Coworker, Not by Supervisor
Went to work today, and nothing happened! Boss said we are going to have a meeting, then he left for the day. I guess it will be tomorrow. Job is still in limbo.