Is it Forgery to Endorse a Check Made Out to Somebody Else With Their Permssion
My question involves criminal law for the state of: Illinois
During the period in question, I was married. I am now divorced and my-ex is saying he's going to come after me for "stealing" money from him before we divorced.
3 times during our marriage, my ex-husband requested a disbursement loan from his 401k. We would use the money to pay off bills, credit cards, or make large purchases.
He then would have weekly payments taken out of his paychecks to pay the "loan" back into his 401K account.
Each time requested, my husband would have to call and request the paperwork from the retirement fund because they wouldn't talk to me since my name was not on the 401K account.
I cannot recall, but I believe one of those checks that we had received (we did this 3 times over 15 years) I might have endorsed my husband's signature. He would often request me to sign things for him when it came to our banking and bills and paperwork. He worked 3rd shift and wasn't usually awake or most times didn't want to be bothered to do anything, even just signing something. So he would say just sign it for me, etc.
He agreed to each request for money from his 401k account and to paying it back out of his checks.
The most recent issue is a disbursement he requested shortly before our divorce. We made a last ditch effort to work on things. During that period, we took out the last disbursement.
The disbursement was requested in May 2013, and we filed for separation/divorce on Aug 22nd. The separation paper lists February as the separation date, even though we tried to reconcile after that date.
To add a little context, he is now trying to say he didn't "understand" what everything was...and has gotten a "guardian" assigned to him from the court to look after his finances.
I recently found out he had a guardian before I married him, helping him with his financial stuff, and he never disclosed that to me before or during our marriage.
I have nothing that says he did ask me. It was a verbal discussion. That was our normal life.
Any help would be appreciated. I'm getting nervous... his new girlfriend is pretty money hungry and he's feeding her a line of crap that I stole from him. I know IL is a 50/50 state, but I'm not sure how far he will go to get money back. (FYI, there are no funds just sitting around in an account for myself...we paid bills with that money and kept some in the joint checking account that I eventually stopped using but he kept using.
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
I would stop worrying about it at this point. Anything of that nature should have been brought during your divorce, and if it wasn't, its pretty much a moot point now.
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
I disagree with some reservations.
if this was a recently discovered matter, long ago becomes less, if not totally irrelevant. If it was not known prior to the divorce, obviously it couldn't be addressed in the divorce.
The he time the matter took place is not long ago so I doubt any applicable statute of limitations has run either.
the elephant in the room is: he has a guardian? If so, that could be a huge problem. If this goes beyond the griping at you stage, get the to an attorney. If he is mentally disabled such that a guardian has been appointed by the state, that could bring a lot of different issues into the discussion.
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
Well he tells me he had a guardian befor we met, but waived/told the court he didn't need/want one anymore. Technically I have seen no legal documents that he ever had one, nor has he ever been treated for a mental disability, etc. during our entire marriage of almost 16 years. He works, drives, functions, etc. He just didn't want to handle anything with the bills. Total disinterest. And I know he is capable. He moved out and signed a lease and got utilities, etc. Being lazy and not wanting to deal with it, doesn't mean requires a guardian for life skills, correct?
And as of right now, all I can go on is that he says he got a guardian to do his finances. I don't have any proof of that either. His girlfriend is paying his bills and stuff online for him... but I don't know that it makes her a legal guardian? And if he had a financial guardian, wouldn't that person be paying his bills and not his girlfriend?
There is no doubt he was aware of the situation of the disbursement. I'm asking if I signed for him, with his permission & knowledge, can he come back now & say I stole the money (even though we were married, not yet even filed for divorce).
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
a court does not assign a guardian "just because". There has to be documented proof of a need for a guardian since in itself, it removes some of the rights of the protected party.
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And if he had a financial guardian, wouldn't that person be paying his bills and not his girlfriend?
not necessarily. A guardian does not have to manage a person so closely they control every aspect and minute of a person's life. They are more of an overseer in a lot of situations.
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There is no doubt he was aware of the situation of the disbursement. I'm asking if I signed for him, with his permission & knowledge, can he come back now & say I stole the money (even though we were married, not yet even filed for divorce).
If he was aware of it (how do you prove it?) and he was aware you signed on his behalf (how do you prove that?), there should not be an issue. Now all you have to worry about is proving each of those issues.
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
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Quoting
jk
a court does not assign a guardian "just because". There has to be documented proof of a need for a guardian since in itself, it removes some of the rights of the protected party.
not necessarily. A guardian does not have to manage a person so closely they control every aspect and minute of a person's life. They are more of an overseer in a lot of situations.
If he was aware of it (how do you prove it?) and he was aware you signed on his behalf (how do you prove that?), there should not be an issue. Now all you have to worry about is proving each of those issues.
Since he would be the one accusing...the burden of proof would be on him.
Re: Is it Forgery to Endorse a Check Made Out to Somebody Else With Their Permssion
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Quoting
barbi876
3 times during our marriage, my ex-husband requested a disbursement loan from his 401k. We would use the money to pay off bills, credit cards, or make large purchases.
He then would have weekly payments taken out of his paychecks to pay the "loan" back into his 401K account.
Each time requested, my husband would have to call and request the paperwork from the retirement fund because they wouldn't talk to me since my name was not on the 401K account.
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Quoting barbi876
The most recent issue is a disbursement he requested shortly before our divorce. We made a last ditch effort to work on things. During that period, we took out the last disbursement.
How is that an issue? Is that the payment you're accusing of forging?
If your husband agrees that he requested the money from his 401K and authorized his employer to recover the money with deductions from his paychecks, and he also agrees that this was done on two prior occasions at his initiation, it seems like quite a stretch for him to argue that he had no idea what happened with the check from his employer.
Presumably all of the money (all three checks) was deposited into the joint marital account you mention, and used to pay marital obligations, right? If not, then what?
Is your divorce now over? This issue was not raised during divorce proceedings? If not, what is your husband's claim about how he only learned about the advance after the divorce?
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
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Quoting
llworking
Since he would be the one accusing...the burden of proof would be on him.
Yes and I suspect the guy doesn't have a winning argument. The only thing that bugs me is this guardian issue. I wonder if he isn't just giving the op a load of BS.
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
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Quoting
jk
Yes and I suspect the guy doesn't have a winning argument. The only thing that bugs me is this guardian issue. I wonder if he isn't just giving the op a load of BS.
Its possible that he is giving the OP a load of BS. If someone has a financial guardian I cannot imagine that they would be permitted to take a loan on a 401k without the signature of the financial guardian...for example.
I also cannot imagine being married to someone for 16 years and it never come up that they have a financial guardian??? How strange would that be?
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
He did NOT have a financial guardian during our marriage. He is trying to get one now. I can't imagine what the is telling them the reason he needs one. He's trying to say he has a learning disability and comprehension problems. NONE of which is documented medically.
He never wanted to handle the finances as he said it stressed him out and was too difficult and I never argued as it was just easier to do it than argue about trying to get him to handle anything.
I think he thinks if he gets a financial guardian now, that it will help him get financial things from our divorce overturned.???
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so far he has formally not done anything. He has said that he didn't "comprehend" what was going on with the money.
I don't know what he will admit to or not admit to regarding the withdrawls from his 401K. I assume the way he threatens me, that he is going to say he did not ask for the withdrawl. I find that hard to believe it will stand up though.
All checks were deposited into the joint account we had. He had access to the account and used the money as well. And yes, the money was used for marital obligations. Bills, etc. accrued during the marriage.
Our divorce was final in October 2013. No the issues were not raised during the divorce. He signed the paperwork to relinquish his rights (equity in our home) I agreed to waive my right to half of his 401K. (We are in IL).
I'm just confused on how he can come back after the fact and say he didn't understand what was happening. It was a very simple divorce process. We represented ourselves. Filled out the form. Listed what each of us was taking or not taking.
He signed it. The judge asked me questions. Then the judge asked him if he agreed with all my answers and he said yes.
He also is now blathering on about how he is now going to come back at me for a claim on the house. I just don't understand how he can PROVE he didn't understand. Am I missing something? He must be telling his lawyer some whoppers to get anyone to say he has a chance at this??
Re: Is Endorsing a Check Forgery if My Ex-Husband Asked Me to Sign It As Him
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Quoting
barbi876
He did NOT have a financial guardian during our marriage. He is trying to get one now. I can't imagine what the is telling them the reason he needs one. He's trying to say he has a learning disability and comprehension problems. NONE of which is documented medically.
He never wanted to handle the finances as he said it stressed him out and was too difficult and I never argued as it was just easier to do it than argue about trying to get him to handle anything.
I think he thinks if he gets a financial guardian now, that it will help him get financial things from our divorce overturned.???
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so far he has formally not done anything. He has said that he didn't "comprehend" what was going on with the money.
I don't know what he will admit to or not admit to regarding the withdrawls from his 401K. I assume the way he threatens me, that he is going to say he did not ask for the withdrawl. I find that hard to believe it will stand up though.
All checks were deposited into the joint account we had. He had access to the account and used the money as well. And yes, the money was used for marital obligations. Bills, etc. accrued during the marriage.
Our divorce was final in October 2013. No the issues were not raised during the divorce. He signed the paperwork to relinquish his rights (equity in our home) I agreed to waive my right to half of his 401K. (We are in IL).
I'm just confused on how he can come back after the fact and say he didn't understand what was happening. It was a very simple divorce process. We represented ourselves. Filled out the form. Listed what each of us was taking or not taking.
He signed it. The judge asked me questions. Then the judge asked him if he agreed with all my answers and he said yes.
He also is now blathering on about how he is now going to come back at me for a claim on the house. I just don't understand how he can PROVE he didn't understand. Am I missing something? He must be telling his lawyer some whoppers to get anyone to say he has a chance at this??
You should request copies of the bank statements for that joint account for the periods of April, May and June. Then you will be able to prove that the money was deposited into your joint account and used to pay bills.