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Can My Ex Return to the Marital Home After Separation
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Arkansas
To make this as short as possible, here's the basics. Wife left a year ago this month to "visit family". She hasn't returned since then (except once for a day). She was in the state of Utah at first, then moved to Colorado to live with her boyfriend (her own admission). She filed for divorce in Utah, I counter filed in Arkansas. Judge in Utah gave her temp. custody. Jurisdiction hearing was put off twice (in Utah). When it finally went to court, Utah declared that Arkansas has jurisdiction. Until this point I had no idea where my son was. I knew they were in CO, and I drove out there once before she got temp. custody and she hid him from me (her oldest son told me they were near Denver). Our son is 8 and had been in school there for most of the year by the time jurisdiction was decided. The judge agreed to let her keep him there to finish the school year.
School year ended and the judge has ordered visitation for 5 consecutive weeks, which ends 5 days before our final court date. The order also states that although she may have him back 5 days before the court date, she is not to remove him from the state of Arkansas until after the court date. I thought that was a little weird. Has anyone ever heard of this? She doesn't live here...doesn't have a house here...doesn't have friends here anymore, basically she burned all of her bridges. Now she is saying that she will be here five days before the court date to get him back and that she will have the police remove me from my home so she can stay here until it's all final. Can she do this? We did live in the house together, but it is premarital property, and I do have a prenup. Plus, she left it over a year ago. She returned to the state once a few months after she left (while she knew I was out of town), and took a lot of personal property out of the house. Some of the stuff was premarital property, some joint property. But she removed about $10,000 worth of stuff... I have replaced some of these things (like televisions, she took every single one), and I'd really rather not have to replace it all again. I offered to get her a motel room and she declined. Can she really make me leave my house so she can stay in it for 5-7 days? This just doesn't seem right to me... My lawyer is on vacation all next week so I thought I'd get some input elsewhere before I go completely crazy. She's sending me nasty emails every 30 minutes and just generally being a pain. I already have my son, which she tried to prevent. I there anything I can do to stop her from doing this? And does this seem weird to anyone else? Why would the judge give him back to her at the end of the five weeks, only to tell her she can't take him anywhere? The judge is aware of where she is living, knows she doesn't have anywhere to go here. I am fighting for full custody... This whole thing just seems bizarre to me.
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
My name only. Has a mortgage, all in my name. I've made all payments. Insurance, etc. all in my name. Her name has never been on it.
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
Does she have a key? Does she have a court order allowing her to stay there?
If (Yes,No) call a locksmith tomorrow or replace the locks yourself if you are comfortable with that sort of stuff
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She doesn't have keys. After she removed all of the stuff a few months ago I had all locks changed and security system updated. She can't physically get into the house, aside from breaking in I guess, but it would set the alarm off. But would the police actually make me leave my own house? She's saying that because we're still legally married that she has a right to stay here since she'll have my son during that time.... Honestly I wouldn't care if I weren't afraid of her removing more things from the house. I just want to know if that's actually a possibility. Police making me leave I mean...
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And no, no court order. Just the order stating that she gets him back 5 days before the court date and can't remove him from the state... No specifics about where she is to stay or anything. The order is very vague, and more than a little confusing to me.
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
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Arkdad68
She doesn't have keys. After she removed all of the stuff a few months ago I had all locks changed and security system updated. She can't physically get into the house, aside from breaking in I guess, but it would set the alarm off. But would the police actually make me leave my own house? She's saying that because we're still legally married that she has a right to stay here since she'll have my son during that time.... Honestly I wouldn't care if I weren't afraid of her removing more things from the house. I just want to know if that's actually a possibility. Police making me leave I mean...
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And no, no court order. Just the order stating that she gets him back 5 days before the court date and can't remove him from the state... No specifics about where she is to stay or anything. The order is very vague, and more than a little confusing to me.
You BOTH have equal rights to live in the marital residence until a judge says otherwise. She cannot have the police throw you out, but technically you cannot deny her the right to stay there either unless the sole right to live in the marital home has already been awarded to you as part of the divorce process.
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Ok, I was afraid of that. That does only apply to her though right? She's bringing her boyfriend, two of her sisters and her mom with her. Do I have to let them all stay here too? I can see this getting nasty in a hurry if that's the case. Could my lawyer file something with the court between now and then to prevent this from happening? I simply don't want all of those people in my house with access to all of my stuff. Perhaps if I pointed out to the court that I had offered to pay for a hotel room? I'm just not comfortable with this at all. Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before? I mean, she's been gone for a year. She abandoned everything here. There is no longer anything of hers in the house. (It's in a storage building on the property.) How can she just come in after that long and act like she can do whatever she wants? This is frustrating.
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
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Arkdad68
Ok, I was afraid of that. That does only apply to her though right? She's bringing her boyfriend, two of her sisters and her mom with her. Do I have to let them all stay here too? I can see this getting nasty in a hurry if that's the case. Could my lawyer file something with the court between now and then to prevent this from happening? I simply don't want all of those people in my house with access to all of my stuff. Perhaps if I pointed out to the court that I had offered to pay for a hotel room? I'm just not comfortable with this at all. Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before? I mean, she's been gone for a year. She abandoned everything here. There is no longer anything of hers in the house. (It's in a storage building on the property.) How can she just come in after that long and act like she can do whatever she wants? This is frustrating.
Talk to your attorney ASAP. There may be something that your attorney could do. I am not sure what, but there may be some kind of emergency motion that could be filed.
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I do not believe she has a right to move into the home but she assuredly does not have a right to make you leave.
she abandoned the home and established a residence elsewhere. Divorce proceedings have already been instituted with her residence being listed as not only a different address but a different state altogether.
The the only argument she would have to being able to move back in would be that it is the marital home. Using that argument you would have the same right to reside in the home until a court addressed the issue. I believe her establishing residency elsewhere breaks the claim of it being the marital home: she abandoned the home and her rights to claim it as still the marital home.
You iu need to get this clarified in the courts though.
and your son and anything involving your son has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
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jk
I do not believe she has a right to move into the home but she assuredly does not have a right to make you leave.
she abandoned the home and established a residence elsewhere. Divorce proceedings have already been instituted with her residence being listed as not only a different address but a different state altogether.
The the only argument she would have to being able to move back in would be that it is the marital home. Using that argument you would have the same right to reside in the home until a court addressed the issue. I believe her establishing residency elsewhere breaks the claim of it being the marital home: she abandoned the home and her rights to claim it as still the marital home.
You iu need to get this clarified in the courts though.
and your son and anything involving your son has absolutely nothing to do with the issue.
There is at least a 50/50 chance that the police will make him let them in...particularly if she has any ID showing that address. I agree that he likely would not get held in contempt or anything if the police do not make him let the in, but that's a risk. He really needs to see what his attorney might be able to do.
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The police do not have the authority to demand he let her in. If you believe it is, what crime would be committed if he refused? She has lived out of state for over a year and unless breaking the law in that state, has a driver's license from that state
in addition to everything else, she is not intending on living in the home but simply using it for a temporary situation
I would suggest op contact the police to get their position on this as well. I would have the court filings on hand to provide the legal address of record in case anybody cares to know where she herself has stated she lives.
But one thing op doesn't have to do is leave the home regardless what the wife or anybody else short of a court says
Now,'this is just me being a thorn but if it was me, I would hire a moving crew to completely empty the house and I mean everything. Put it all in a storage unit for a week.
I would then stay in a hotel for the duration.
I might figure out that is a good time to have the house tented and fumigated for bugs as well.
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jk
The police do not have the authority to demand he let her in. If you believe it is, what crime would be committed if he refused? She has lived out of state for over a year and unless breaking the law in that state, has a driver's license from that state
in addition to everything else, she is not intending on living in the home but simply using it for a temporary situation
I would suggest op contact the police to get their position on this as well. I would have the court filings on hand to provide the legal address of record in case anybody cares to know where she herself has stated she lives.
But one thing op doesn't have to do is leave the home regardless what the wife or anybody else short of a court says
Now,'this is just me being a thorn but if it was me, I would hire a moving crew to completely empty the house and I mean everything. Put it all in a storage unit for a week.
I would then stay in a hotel for the duration.
I might figure out that is a good time to have the house tented and fumigated for bugs as well.
I was thinking about suggesting that as well...although maybe not everything...but everything that matters to him.
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llworking
I was thinking about suggesting that as well...although maybe not everything...but everything that matters to him.
its no fun unless you remove everything. That way they walk into an empty house. No furnishings, no appliances, no food, no nothing.
yes, I can be dastardly.
but whatever happens, if you think she might be in the home, start now and video tape every inch of the home to prove possible damages to the premises and to document everything inside the home. this applies to a situation where she is merely visiting as well. Just cover your back end.
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Although moving everything would be amusing, it would also be a giant pain. I've lived in this house since I built it 15 years ago. That's a lot of stuff. The reason I put this in the child custody part to start with is because that's the only reason this has come up. Everything else is settled. We have a property settlement agreement already signed. The only thing up in the air is the custody. The divorce won't be final until the court date to determine custody. That was kind of why I was asking. My prenup covered all of my property so there really wasn't much question of who gets what on that. I got all property and she got a big check, cut and dry. What I was wanting to know is, even though property settlement is done, since she will have our son and we're still legally married, can she really do what she's saying she's going to? I did talk to one of my attorney's partners today. He said they can probably prevent it from happening if I really don't want her here. I guess I'm just going to have to stew on it until my attorney gets back from vacation and we decide what to do. I appreciate everyone's advice, and sense of humor! As with all things in the court system, I guess I just have to hurry up and wait...
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I got all property and she got a big check
did she already get the check? If so, it gives you even more of a right to deny her entry. Even without the gavel hitting the block, the divorce is effectively complete.
as I said; I do not believe she has a claim to enter the property for many reasons. If you have already paid out as the divorce required, that simply adds one more.
if you get a chance and if you think it will be an issue before you get a chance to speak with your attorney, give the cops a call and ask them what they would do if your soon to be ex wife called them demanding entry into the home. If they would refuse to act, nothing else really matters.
and this has nothing to do with your son. That gives her no special claim to demand to be allowed in the home.
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Spoke with local law enforcement... They said since property settlement is signed and filed it's a done deal and the house is mine. She got the check in March and cashed it then as well. They will make her leave if she causes a problem. I'm still deciding what I should do, but that's some peace of mind at least. Have an appointment with my lawyer next Tuesday. Thank you all for your input. Kept me from going completely crazy...
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
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Arkdad68
Spoke with local law enforcement... They said since property settlement is signed and filed it's a done deal and the house is mine. She got the check in March and cashed it then as well. They will make her leave if she causes a problem. I'm still deciding what I should do, but that's some peace of mind at least. Have an appointment with my lawyer next Tuesday. Thank you all for your input. Kept me from going completely crazy...
I definitely agree that if the property settlement is already complete...its a done deal. Its not the marital home any longer. Too bad you didn't mention that in your first post. You would have received completely different answers.
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
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Arkdad68
Spoke with local law enforcement... They said since property settlement is signed and filed it's a done deal and the house is mine. She got the check in March and cashed it then as well. They will make her leave if she causes a problem. I'm still deciding what I should do, but that's some peace of mind at least. Have an appointment with my lawyer next Tuesday. Thank you all for your input. Kept me from going completely crazy...
Yeah. I figured if she had the money, which was not clear initially, she had no claim.
again, just a suggestion;
if you allow any of the troupe into the house, make sure you have videotaped everything to show condition and presence. At the first sign of conflict, I would ask them to leave and if they refuse, bring in the cops. You surely do not want this escalating into a brawl.
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Re: Can My Ex Return to the Marital Home After Separation
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Arkdad68
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Arkansas
To make this as short as possible, here's the basics. Wife left a year ago this month to "visit family". She hasn't returned since then (except once for a day).
We did live in the house together, but it is premarital property, and I do have a prenup. Plus, she left it over a year ago.
If she doesn't reside in the house (and she doesn't) and doesn't own the house and you own the house, you can prevent her from entering the house even if you are married to each other. Being married doesn't entitle someone to access all of their spouse's separate property.
Now if she resided there, that is different, but she doesn't. And if you do give her access to the house, she can claim she resides there. Which is what she is trying to do - trick you into letting her into the house so that she can then claim she resides there. Once she claims she resides there, you have a huge problem.
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Arkdad68
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Arkansas
School year ended and the judge has ordered visitation for 5 consecutive weeks, which ends 5 days before our final court date. The order also states that although she may have him back 5 days before the court date, she is not to remove him from the state of Arkansas until after the court date. I thought that was a little weird. Has anyone ever heard of this? She doesn't live here...doesn't have a house here...doesn't have friends here anymore, basically she burned all of her bridges.
She has 2 choices - give the child to you to take care of so she can leave the state alone and go back to where she lives or find a place to live in Arkansas with your son, either with a relative/friend or rent a place or pay for a hotel.
Those are her only choices. Nothing in the Court's child custody order gives her access to your separate property.
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Arkdad68
My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Arkansas
Also, a home is only the marital home during the marriage. Once the property settlement is done, the home has either been awarded to 1 of the spouses or ordered sold - in your case, the home was awarded to you.
There are of course other types of settlements where one party pays rent to the other or something like that but those aren't your situation. You were awarded the home. It's a done deal - you outright own the home and she doesn't reside in it.
Child custody is separate from the property settlement. The burden is on her to find a place to stay with your son in Arkansas since she is the custodial parent or leave him with you so she can go back to where she lives. And you have nothing to say about where she stays WITH your son in Arkansa unless where she is staying rises to the level of neglect or abuse, and I assure you, those are pretty low standards so keep that in mind. She could crash on an ex-boyfriend's couch with your son and as long as your son is fed, clothed, and not in physical danger, you would be stuck with that living situation for your son.
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Arkdad68
Spoke with local law enforcement... They said since property settlement is signed and filed it's a done deal and the house is mine. She got the check in March and cashed it then as well. They will make her leave if she causes a problem.
That's great that you have the local cops saying they will kick her out if you let her in, but I can tell you most places, once someone claims they are residing somewhere, the cops back off and tell you to deal with an eviction if you want the other person out. Don't rely on cops telling you they will remove her before you let her in. You will get a very different answer if you try to kick her out and when the cops show up she claims you two reconciled and she resides in the home with you.
And I really doubt you will have the cops conduct a mini-trial in your front yard regarding what your property settlement says or doesn't say and whether or not she is a tenant if she decides to claim she resides in the home. That is just laughable that they even told you that. Cops are not courts - they don't interpret property settlements on the spot. If someone claims they reside somewhere, they are trained to back off and tell you all to fight it out in civil court.
You've got a problem in that if you don't let her in the house she can stay whereever she wants with your son as long as it is in Arkansas and not neglectful/abusive/dangerous. But if you do let her in, she can start claiming the house is her residence and you need to evict her if you want her out.
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Yeah, sorry I didn't mention the property settlement at first. I just figured since the divorce isn't legally final the property settlement wouldn't hold any ground. This is all new to me, I don't know all of these things and don't really understand how this all works. I've talked with my lawyer on the phone today and we are going to meet at his office next Tuesday. He thinks we have enough grounds to go after a modification of the temporary custody order. If that doesn't work I guess I will probably allow her to stay at my house for the 5 days between the time she gets him back and the court date. At least I'll know where my son is. I'll just have to deal with getting her out afterwards... That's another battle. If she does try to pull anything stupid it will only help me in the long run, so I'll just deal with it as I go. Even her lawyer is trying to get her to settle on custody (giving me custody), she's just not having it. She'll drag it out until the very end. But as far as my original question, I think I have a grasp of how to handle it now. I really do thank you all for your advice.
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
you need to make it clear she is allowed in only as a very temporary guest and there is no landlord tenant relationship established.
In fact, I would suggest your lawyer speak with her lawyer and make sure it is clear her being allowed to stay is for this very limited period of time and she agrees to leave after the court hearing.
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I think my lawyer is actually drawing something up to send to her lawyer, for her to sign. Something to that effect, that it is only temporary, until the final court date. I'm hoping it won't be an issue after my meeting with my lawyer next week anyway. jk, you seem very knowledgeable to this site. I have another question separate from this one that needs to go in another forum, but I'm not sure where to put it. Regarding my ex refusing to take a court ordered drug test. Can you perhaps point me in the right direction? I'm just not exactly sure where it would fit in...
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
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Arkdad68
I think my lawyer is actually drawing something up to send to her lawyer, for her to sign. Something to that effect, that it is only temporary, until the final court date. I'm hoping it won't be an issue after my meeting with my lawyer next week anyway. jk, you seem very knowledgeable to this site. I have another question separate from this one that needs to go in another forum, but I'm not sure where to put it. Regarding my ex refusing to take a court ordered drug test. Can you perhaps point me in the right direction? I'm just not exactly sure where it would fit in...
Just ask your question on this thread. The volunteers here generally prefer that all questions for the same divorce be posted in the same thread.
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Ok, that makes it easy. Thank you. The ex was recently ordered to take a hair follicle drug test. This was court ordered. She went to a local testing facility where she lives and submitted to a urine test. I contacted the facility and was told they do offer hair follicle testing. My lawyer is doing the lawyer thing, drawing up another document to submit to the judge. I'm just wondering how that will impact my case. Will it look bad on her? Will it look bad on me that I called the facility? I didn't ask about her, just about the types of drug testing they offer. I know you guys aren't judges, and can't tell me what a judge will do. And I do have a good lawyer. But this is what I do at night... I stare at the ceiling and run through everything happening and second guess every move I make. I have my son right now. Until I picked him up a couple of weekends ago I had only seen him for 10 days in a year. We had made a mutual agreement for me to have him for Thanksgiving, which she backed out on the day before I was supposed to get him. Then at Christmas she told me I could have him only if I bought plane tickets for her adult children to fly out to see her. I agreed, then they decided they didn't want to go see her, so again, I didn't get my son. This time it was court ordered, and she still tried to keep him from me. I called the police with the order in hand and she backed down and gave him to me. I've went as long as 7 weeks without even being allowed to speak to him on the phone. I have numerous texts and emails from her, threatening to not let me talk to him unless I give her XX amount of money for XX reason. I already pay $874 a month in child support, her truck payment, insurance and cell phone bill. I go over all of this again and again, and I think, there's no way she'll get custody. But then I read about similar cases where the father lost. It just drives me nuts. I don't know how the courts look at things. I guess I'm just looking for personal experiences, something to give me hope. She turned me in for child abuse. It was unfounded (a dog jumped on him at the park, little dog, just scratched his leg). CPS never even questioned me about it. She's gone out of her way for a year to keep my son from me. I have pages of emails and texts. Are those admissible into court? But even after all that's happened, and all that she has done...she has had him for a year. Is there any way I will get him back? The school she has him in advised her to seek counseling for him because he was having trouble adjusting to being away from his home. I just got the report from them today. Page upon page of counselor notes saying how he is sad because he misses his dad, and his brothers and his home. (His brothers are her other children, she left them here with their dad). Also a note from a counseling session stated that he doesn't like his mom's new boyfriend, that my son was actually punished by him for singing a bible song. Her boyfriend is an atheist. My son has been raised in a religious home. Oh, my son is autistic (severely, but high functioning), so he really clings to things. He likes bible songs (he loves to sing). When we went to sing one the other night, he had a meltdown. This was before I got the reports from the counselor and realized he was no longer allowed to sing those songs. There's just so much that she's doing that seems so wrong, but is it enough to get custody awarded to me? I just hate this waiting game. I hate not knowing. I hate that my son cries for reasons I don't understand because his mother has uprooted his whole life. He was hardly ever having meltdowns before she left with him, just very rare occasions. Usually at school. So, what does it take for a father to get custody? I've never been in this situation, and I really don't know anyone else who has either. Any one that has any advice, personal experience, anything to keep me from going insane...anything. It will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Re: Can My Ex Stay in My Home
Please use paragraphs. My eyes hurt.
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Arkdad68
Ok, that makes it easy. Thank you. The ex was recently ordered to take a hair follicle drug test. This was court ordered. She went to a local testing facility where she lives and submitted to a urine test. I contacted the facility and was told they do offer hair follicle testing. My lawyer is doing the lawyer thing, drawing up another document to submit to the judge. I'm just wondering how that will impact my case. Will it look bad on her? Will it look bad on me that I called the facility? I didn't ask about her, just about the types of drug testing they offer. I know you guys aren't judges, and can't tell me what a judge will do. And I do have a good lawyer. But this is what I do at night... I stare at the ceiling and run through everything happening and second guess every move I make.
I have my son right now. Until I picked him up a couple of weekends ago I had only seen him for 10 days in a year. We had made a mutual agreement for me to have him for Thanksgiving, which she backed out on the day before I was supposed to get him. Then at Christmas she told me I could have him only if I bought plane tickets for her adult children to fly out to see her. I agreed, then they decided they didn't want to go see her, so again, I didn't get my son. This time it was court ordered, and she still tried to keep him from me. I called the police with the order in hand and she backed down and gave him to me.
I've went as long as 7 weeks without even being allowed to speak to him on the phone. I have numerous texts and emails from her, threatening to not let me talk to him unless I give her XX amount of money for XX reason. I already pay $874 a month in child support, her truck payment, insurance and cell phone bill. I go over all of this again and again, and I think, there's no way she'll get custody. But then I read about similar cases where the father lost. It just drives me nuts. I don't know how the courts look at things. I guess I'm just looking for personal experiences, something to give me hope.
She turned me in for child abuse. It was unfounded (a dog jumped on him at the park, little dog, just scratched his leg). CPS never even questioned me about it. She's gone out of her way for a year to keep my son from me. I have pages of emails and texts. Are those admissible into court?
But even after all that's happened, and all that she has done...she has had him for a year. Is there any way I will get him back?
The school she has him in advised her to seek counseling for him because he was having trouble adjusting to being away from his home. I just got the report from them today. Page upon page of counselor notes saying how he is sad because he misses his dad, and his brothers and his home. (His brothers are her other children, she left them here with their dad). Also a note from a counseling session stated that he doesn't like his mom's new boyfriend, that my son was actually punished by him for singing a bible song. Her boyfriend is an atheist. My son has been raised in a religious home. Oh, my son is autistic (severely, but high functioning), so he really clings to things. He likes bible songs (he loves to sing). When we went to sing one the other night, he had a meltdown. This was before I got the reports from the counselor and realized he was no longer allowed to sing those songs. There's just so much that she's doing that seems so wrong, but is it enough to get custody awarded to me?
I just hate this waiting game. I hate not knowing. I hate that my son cries for reasons I don't understand because his mother has uprooted his whole life. He was hardly ever having meltdowns before she left with him, just very rare occasions. Usually at school. So, what does it take for a father to get custody? I've never been in this situation, and I really don't know anyone else who has either. Any one that has any advice, personal experience, anything to keep me from going insane...anything. It will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Ok, here are your paragraphs. It really doesn't matter to the court who is male and who is female as far as custody goes. Your problem is that she has status quo (he's been living with her all this time) so it takes quite a bit for the court to uproot the child. You need to just keep documenting everything that is happening, and keeping the court informed. No one can guarantee that you will ever get custody, but doing those things will help to put the odds in your favor. Good luck.
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Sorry about that. It was late. My brain was working overtime and my fingers can't keep up...
I've been documenting absolutely everything. I've kept phone logs of every time I've talked to him, and every time I've tried and not been allowed to. And now, every time she talks to him. Every text message and e-mail she has sent, I've kept. I have about 5 three ring binders full of stuff. The big thick ones, not the little one inch ones. I'm very efficient at keeping notes. I probably keep too many really...