Can a Parent Include Grandparents Visitation in a Divorce Decree

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Maine.... My son and daughter in law have always lived in my home grandmother and grandfather my granddaughter has lived her since she was born for 6 years .This august daughter in law moved out and a divorce is now being started. I grandmother have taken care of my granddaughter while mother works and will do so during the summer months when school is out.plus we watched her and raised her her more then either parent. which is fine. We both have a loving relationship with our grandaughter and she does with us..Her dad lives with us and will continue to. he is bipolar and has anxiety issues sees his doc monthly and takes his med so no problems...We have her every week end and one night after school ....It will be joint custody with her having physical custody..She lives nearby same town... In the visitation decree she is willing to have a clause or what ever it would be called that we grandparents have visitation rights. As her dad does also.We all live in the same house. So wondering if she can include our rights to have her visit as her dad lives here. We don't want it worded to sound like hes not fit due to his bipolar...Its a do it your self divorce and they are writing up their own parenting plan...How would this be worded? Any help would be much appreciated or any insight if she can include us in visitation? They are low income so can not afford a lawyer or even a mediator to help.Don't really need one..One more thing we are concerned about..her parents are divorced and they move often ..Now her dad is in Virginia for the past 2 years and now her mom is moving there also but not near the dad to be near her sister. daughter in law mentions I might want to move to Virginia...Because my parents are there..can she move out of state? can we have it in the divorce that she can not move grandaughter to Virginia they would not offer much help her parents..Plus they move often?Sorry for the long post just worried to death as we love this little girl as she does us..Her moving to Virginia also would not give her a better job as she only has a GED so jobs anyplace are limited...

A divorce and custody proceeding is between the parties of the divorce. Dad can certainly allow you to visit on his time, but if you want rights of your own, you'll need to petition the court for grandparent rights; they're not going to be "attached" to dad's decree. Given the child's age and extensive contact the child has had with the G's, a decent attorney should be able to successfully argue for GP visitation (unless there are issues that haven't been disclosed). In ME this is NOT an open and shut thing, and if you attempt to bring a petition without the assistance of an attorney and mom challenges the petition, the outcome may not only be undesireable but could see mom taking the child out of your lives altogether. This is one of those cases where you shouldn't even attempt to bring a petition without a decent hired gun to get you a "win"...because if you don't win, the consequences could be dire and last until the child becomes an adult. You can find the statute that addresses grandparent visitation and the petition process here:

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...Ach59sec0.html

Quote:

---

daughter in law mentions I might want to move to Virginia...Because my parents are there..can she move out of state?

---

She can unless there's a court order to the contrary. Even with such an order in place, mom may STILL be able to petition the court and get such a move approved, especially if her job prospects there are minimal there and she's got family in VA. That actually works in mom's favor, not against her. The problem is that there is no "we" in this situation. There is DAD. HE can attempt to get moving language added to HIS visitation decree. Any rights for visitation that YOU want need to be sought by you, in a court action of your own. If you're asking if there's a way to perminantly forbid mom from ever moving with the child; the answer is "no". Dad might get the court might block her in the short term, but it won't last forever. That's just a reality that must be faced when relationships come to an end and people move on. Fortunately, things like vehicles, airplanes, telephones, Skype, etc can still allow visitation to occur, regardless of where the child may ultimately end up living.

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Maine.... My son and daughter in law have always lived in my home grandmother and grandfather my granddaughter has lived her since she was born for 6 years .This august daughter in law moved out and a divorce is now being started. I grandmother have taken care of my granddaughter while mother works and will do so during the summer months when school is out.plus we watched her and raised her her more then either parent. which is fine. We both have a loving relationship with our grandaughter and she does with us..Her dad lives with us and will continue to. he is bipolar and has anxiety issues sees his doc monthly and takes his med so no problems...We have her every week end and one night after school ....It will be joint custody with her having physical custody..She lives nearby same town... In the visitation decree she is willing to have a clause or what ever it would be called that we grandparents have visitation rights. As her dad does also.We all live in the same house. So wondering if she can include our rights to have her visit as her dad lives here. We don't want it worded to sound like hes not fit due to his bipolar...Its a do it your self divorce and they are writing up their own parenting plan...How would this be worded? Any help would be much appreciated or any insight if she can include us in visitation? They are low income so can not afford a lawyer or even a mediator to help.Don't really need one..One more thing we are concerned about..her parents are divorced and they move often ..Now her dad is in Virginia for the past 2 years and now her mom is moving there also but not near the dad to be near her sister. daughter in law mentions I might want to move to Virginia...Because my parents are there..can she move out of state? can we have it in the divorce that she can not move grandaughter to Virginia they would not offer much help her parents..Plus they move often?Sorry for the long post just worried to death as we love this little girl as she does us..Her moving to Virginia also would not give her a better job as she only has a GED so jobs anyplace are limited...

---

I'm going to touch a little more on the grandparent visitation issue.

For the most part, grandparents who have great relationships with their children tend not to need court ordered visitation. There are exceptions, of course, but many parents (myself included - and I have grandkids!) as well as professionals believe that suing your children for GPV is probably one of the most hostile acts you can do.

You are expected to visit with your grandchild while she is with her father. If you do end up suing, you're not going to get anywhere near the same access as you have now. It would generally be more along the lines of one overnight per month.

You have absolutely no say in where she moves. The court also cannot uphold any order that prohibits relocation in the future; situations change, and this is why custody can (and often must) be modified to account for changes.

The bottom line is that the divorce doesn't legally involve anyone other than both parents and the child.

Daughter in law does want us to have visitation.You missed the point she wants to include that in the divorce visitation order. We are not suing for rights to have her. As her mom wants us too.My queastion was can she have this added that she wants us to have her????As she wants to have this in the visitation order can she ???We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help to us if we ever did need to sue..Which I doubt would ever happen. Also I know we as grandparents have no say as to relocation. But her dad does?????

As to family in Virginia her dad has moved 6 times in the past 8 years so has her mom. They have had hardley any contact with grandaughter..her mom has issues she is now dating a man 16 years older then herself. he has 3 convicted felonies one involving weapons (guns)...2 maybe 3 domestic assault charges. Just got out of jail for the last one as he ran his car into his girlfriends car with her child in the car....Broke her jaw the last time. one home invasion people looking for drugs. he has been arrested and found guilty on many drug charges. Kids with 4 different mothers. On probation now and can not even have his own children yet hes over around out grandaughter!!!!!She was fired in Nov due to 6 clients stating she came to work on drugs wanted to buy drugs from them or offered to sell them drugs. She worked taking people with mental health issues to appointments shopping ect. This is on file with her previous employer!

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Daughter in law does want us to have visitation.You missed the point she wants to include that in the divorce visitation order. We are not suing for rights to have her. As her mom wants us too.My queastion was can she have this added that she wants us to have her????As she wanta to have this in the visitation order can she ???We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help us if we ever did need to sue..Which i doubt would ever happen. Also I know we as grandparents have no say as to relocation. But her dad does?????

---

I didn't miss anything. :cool:

Dad can object to a relocation, but generally the courts have two options. They can either allow Mom to relocate and give custody to Dad if Mom insists on moving, or they can allow the relocation of the child.

Going back to the decree. The problem here is that such a clause isn't necessary. Your son still lives with you, yes? Then there's absolutely no reason for any clause relating to grandparents. You see your granddaughter on his time.

So technically yes, a clause can be added if the Judge doesn't pay too much attention to the petition. But that's not the real question - the real question is, "is such a clause enforceable"? The answer is basically "No". Now it's possible for you to try to enforce it, but the court is going to find it terrifically difficult (if it's possible at all) to rule in your favor over Mom's objections, and for several reasons.

And I'll be honest - this bit raises about 50 red flags:

Quote:

---

We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help us if we ever did need to sue

---

It does indicate what is perhaps the motivation here.

Motivation is for the safety and well being of this little girl bottom line...I do not want custody I want to be able to be here for her ..Bottom line we love her and she loves us as she does both parents...So this would appear to a judge as motivation to try and take a little girl away from her mother NO thats not it...Plus we and her dad are having to pay for most of her rent as she lost her job and hadn't been looking until TANF just told her work 20 hours a week or volunteer work 20 hours a week to continue getting TANF..She has health problems so she can't do work that requires standing for a 8 hour shift. Or doing much lifting.....So yes I understand we don't need a clause saying we can have visitation as we do because her dad lives with us and we have her here ok got that ty...But as to leaving State that is another matter and it would not be in the childs best interest....Moms motivation is and i quote " If I move to Virginia dad will help take care of us" Her dad moves often so hes in Virginia now but next year he maybe in California who knows .....Either way Divorce Sucks at best....For all involved!

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Motivation is for the safety and well being of this little girl bottom line...I do not want custody I want to be able to be here for her ..Bottom line we love her and she loves us as she does both parents...So this would appear to a judge as motivation to try and take a little girl away from her mother NO thats not it...Plus we and her dad are having to pay for most of her rent as she lost her job and hadn't been looking until TANF just told her work 20 hours a week or volunteer work 20 hours a week to continue getting TANF..She has health problems so she can't do work that requires standing for a 8 hour shift. Or doing much lifting.....So yes I understand we don't need a clause saying we can have visitation as we do because her dad lives with us and we have her here ok got that ty...But as to leaving State that is another matter and it would not be in the childs best interest....Moms motivation is and i quote " If I move to Virginia dad will help take care of us" Her dad moves often so hes in Virginia now but next year he maybe in California who knows .....Either way Divorce Sucks at best....For all involved!

---

Grandma you really do not need visitation to be court ordered for you...so its good that you have understood that. However, the issue of mom moving the child to VA is between mom, dad and the judge. You, yourself have zero power to do anything about that.

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Daughter in law does want us to have visitation.You missed the point she wants to include that in the divorce visitation order. We are not suing for rights to have her. As her mom wants us too.My queastion was can she have this added that she wants us to have her????As she wants to have this in the visitation order can she ???We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help to us if we ever did need to sue..Which I doubt would ever happen. Also I know we as grandparents have no say as to relocation. But her dad does?????

As to family in Virginia her dad has moved 6 times in the past 8 years so has her mom. They have had hardley any contact with grandaughter..her mom has issues she is now dating a man 16 years older then herself. he has 3 convicted felonies one involving weapons (guns)...2 maybe 3 domestic assault charges. Just got out of jail for the last one as he ran his car into his girlfriends car with her child in the car....Broke her jaw the last time. one home invasion people looking for drugs. he has been arrested and found guilty on many drug charges. Kids with 4 different mothers. On probation now and can not even have his own children yet hes over around out grandaughter!!!!!She was fired in Nov due to 6 clients stating she came to work on drugs wanted to buy drugs from them or offered to sell them drugs. She worked taking people with mental health issues to appointments shopping ect. This is on file with her previous employer!

---

Tell me, you're absolutely okay with all of this as long as you get visitation...right?

Is that correct?

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Motivation is for the safety and well being of this little girl bottom line...I do not want custody I want to be able to be here for her ..Bottom line we love her and she loves us as she does both parents...So this would appear to a judge as motivation to try and take a little girl away from her mother NO thats not it...Plus we and her dad are having to pay for most of her rent as she lost her job and hadn't been looking until TANF just told her work 20 hours a week or volunteer work 20 hours a week to continue getting TANF..She has health problems so she can't do work that requires standing for a 8 hour shift. Or doing much lifting.....So yes I understand we don't need a clause saying we can have visitation as we do because her dad lives with us and we have her here ok got that ty...But as to leaving State that is another matter and it would not be in the childs best interest....Moms motivation is and i quote " If I move to Virginia dad will help take care of us" Her dad moves often so hes in Virginia now but next year he maybe in California who knows .....Either way Divorce Sucks at best....For all involved!

---

Please don't do that. You made it very clear that you're willing to use such a clause against Mom if she changes her mind. This isn't about the child's best interest - if it was, I don't think you'd be asking about visitation. I think you'd be asking how best to encourage Dad to be more effective.

But that's just me.

*shrug*

What do you mean Encourage dad to be more effective? He has Bi Polar with paranoid tendency,anxiety, Does not leave the house often as he has had a Social Phobia...So hes not really able to advocate on his behalf. I wish...And No we aren't really ok with this boy friend. we are scared to death but are hands are tied...So by having her with us half the week as she has been since mom left we are able to make sure shes ok.....As much as we possibly can....What do you feel is in the best interest of the child? Dad is what he is and trys the best he can with his mental issues to be a good dad....But him going into a court room with a judge ...Its going to hard for him and he wants as little conflict as possible....He doesn't want his daughter to out of state. And I am trying to help him. I know its not about grandparents..Its about whats best for a little girl..Shes 6 and feels safe here shrugs

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

What do you mean Encourage dad to be more effective? He has Bi Polar with paranoid tendency,anxiety, Does not leave the house often as he has had a Social Phobia...So hes not really able to advocate on his behalf. I wish...And No we aren't really ok with this boy friend. we are scared to death but are hands are tied...So by having her with us half the week as she has been since mom left we are able to make sure shes ok.....As much as we possibly can....What do you feel is in the best interest of the child? Dad is what he is and trys the best he can with his mental issues to be a good dad....But him going into a court room with a judge ...Its going to hard for him and he wants as little conflict as possible....He doesn't want his daughter to out of state. And I am trying to help him. I know its not about grandparents..Its about whats best for a little girl..Shes 6 and feels safe here shrugs

---

Best interest would be little 'un having as much access to both her parents as possible. But this is where it gets somewhat murky because one of the parents isn't quite where he needs to be. Dad can't advocate for himself, and to prevent Mom from relocating out of state he's going to basically have to prove that he can be the effective primary parent. Otherwise he's not leaving the court much option.

Is he doing anything for his social anxiety (and oh believe me, I know that one tooooo well)? Can he get together with a local Dads group or something? Because the court can't justify giving him custody on the condition that you're around to pick up the slack :/

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

What do you mean Encourage dad to be more effective? He has Bi Polar with paranoid tendency,anxiety, Does not leave the house often as he has had a Social Phobia...So hes not really able to advocate on his behalf. I wish...And No we aren't really ok with this boy friend. we are scared to death but are hands are tied...So by having her with us half the week as she has been since mom left we are able to make sure shes ok.....As much as we possibly can....What do you feel is in the best interest of the child? Dad is what he is and trys the best he can with his mental issues to be a good dad....But him going into a court room with a judge ...Its going to hard for him and he wants as little conflict as possible....He doesn't want his daughter to out of state. And I am trying to help him. I know its not about grandparents..Its about whats best for a little girl..Shes 6 and feels safe here shrugs

---

Grandma, there is a real problem here. A judge cannot prevent mom from moving out of state unless the judge is willing to give custody to dad if mom moves anyway. From what you have described here, its very unlikely that a judge would find dad suitable for primary custody. The fact that you are there and can be responsible for the child means that dad would get normal visitation, but you cannot substitute for dad when it comes to custody.

Yes I agree dad is not suitable for primary custody...Nor is mom for that matter. Won't work we have to provide money to pay for her rent along with her dad helping..has drug issues the list goes on..But we don't want to have a court battle about that we just want her here in state and nearby..I read that judges don't always let a custodial ;parent move out of state. They take into consideration many things before they approve it?

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Yes I agree dad is not suitable for primary custody...Nor is mom for that matter. Won't work we have to provide money to pay for her rent along with her dad helping..has drug issues the list goes on..But we don't want to have a court battle about that we just want her here in state and nearby..I read that judges don't always let a custodial ;parent move out of state. They take into consideration many things before they approve it?

---

We touched on that a little bit already. The court has two options - if Mom wants to move, switch custody to Dad. Or, allow the child to go with Mom. If Dad isn't fit for custody, the court has no choice but to allow the child to go with Mom.

But there's another problem. You're saying that Mom isn't suitable for primary custody - by whose standards? She's obviously not unfit.

Not sure whos standards probably by anyone standards. Fired for drug use on her job...having a 3 time convicted felon staying with her and granddaughter is there often Plus hes been convicted of drug charges.just got out of jail for domestic violence 2nd conviction might be 3 convictions. Broke his girl friends jaw..2nd time ran into her car with her 3 year old in the car...Hes 16 years older then her..She won't work we and her dad foot her rent..Food stamps, town food, banks provide the food. And if she moves out of state what happens to the visitation order? That son has her week ends?

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Not sure whos standards probably by anyone standards. Fired for drug use on her job...having a 3 time convicted felon staying with her and granddaughter is there often Plus hes been convicted of drug charges.just got out of jail for domestic violence 2nd conviction might be 3 convictions. Broke his girl friends jaw..2nd time ran into her car with her 3 year old in the car...Hes 16 years older then her..She won't work we and her dad foot her rent..Food stamps, town food, banks provide the food. And if she moves out of state what happens to the visitation order? That son has her week ends?

---

No, by LEGAL standards.

Please see it from the other side though - if it was that bad, why hasn't your son (or heck, even you) done anything about it? No CPS charges? No police reports?

Why hasn't your son tried to get custody?

Because it boils down to this:

Unless a court finds her unfit (and believe me that's nowhere near as easy as most people think), she is presumed fit. It really is that simple. You don't have to like her parenting decisions - but they are hers, and hers only.

- - - Updated - - -

Visitation will be modified.

But son would be considered not fit because he has mental issues?Because if we try to do anything as we are pending court she will refuse us to see granddaughter at all...I have written signed reports from her previos job stating the drug issues would this not show some what unfit??? I just want this little girl to be looked after and loved...I have her best interest at heart not mine.

I'm going to start again, if I may?

You have Dad & Mom, who each thought the other was acceptable as the parent to their child. They split, and Mom moves with the child. NOW she's unfit? What happened? She didn't become unfit overnight. But you'll be fine with her parenting as long as you get your visitation. In fact you're so okay with it that you're fine with her being primary and even if a clause might not be enforceable you want it present anyway to try and force your will against Mom if she changes her mind.

So...what gives? She's either fit, or she's not. Again, she doesn't become unfit overnight.

What I'm seeing here is a father who either will not or cannot address his own custody matter. With regards to Mom, you never even loosely mentioned the "fitness" issue until you received replies you didn't like. It doesn't work like that.

Yes I did mention her being unfit in many post back.dad does not feel like he is capable of full custody without our help...I have been her primary caregiver since day 1... I'm not ok with it. I'm scared to death that she will hop in her car which we co signed for her to get the loan...Yes you are seeing a father that is not able to advocate for his daughter..But that does not make daughter in law any better....We get along fine daughter in law and us as long as we keep financing her..I just want grand daugter to be looked after... We don't have alot of money for a lawyer..Thats why I'm asking here
From a legal standpoint being fired due to drug problems on the job is considered fit????The man in her life a judge would say hes fine ?? Are you people responding lawyers???? Just curious no disrespect ment

You do realize that you have absolutely no rights and no control over Mom or her child, right?

From a legal standpoint, is it criminal negligence to know that your child's mother has a drug problem but you do nothing about it?

From a legal standpoint, how come you are STILL fine with Mom having custody as long as you get what you think is yours?

From a legal standpoint, you are not equal to Mom. Ever. You're not the primary caregiver. That designation is reserved for parents or third parties who actually have legal custody or guardianship.

Let's not go down that road, either.

I suspect that many parents would be thinking along the lines of, "This grandparent is interfering far too much - I'm moving out of state with my child and I'll make darned sure that the grandparent will only see the child during Dad's parenting time".

Why is it many things I have read about moving out of state. says that it has to be because it would make a better life for them both. better job with higher pay. (She has a GED no other training so where you live wouldn't really give you a better job.) She won't work here so why would she there? Would a judge ask about if shes working? how her rents being paid? It says if she has family there .She has her dad and step mom they have lived there 2 years...Now her mom is also moving there in another area of Virginia in may. So o she would have family there to help. Even though they haven't helped in the past 6 years..her dad has financially..but he says hes done as shes not trying so? She has her sister her and us as family to granddaughter..We do help. all the time We provided a home for her and grandaughter thnot one cent was ever given to us from them..Even paid for food.I watched grand daughter as daughter in law did work some...A judge wouldn't care about that???We just do not want her out of state thats all..

- - - Updated - - -

From a legal standpoint, is it criminal negligence to know that your child's mother has a drug problem but you do nothing about it?
( I did not know this what should we do then?)
Her mom wants us to take her she calls and ask me to come get her as she is having a bad time and feels shes not being a good parent so can i take her for the night..

Her motivation for moving is quote ( my dad will help financially) Not to get away from me as being a busy body even though you think thats my reasoning...Im here asking as I do not have money for a lawyer and my son is on S.S. I. and he can not afford one either. IDK I feel as though Im the bad guy here...

- - - Updated - - -

From a legal standpoint, how come you are STILL fine with Mom having custody as long as you get what you think is yours?


I'm not fine with it not at all. But I know no judge would award custody to my son either with his mental health issues....And what do i think is mine????? Mine is knowing this little girl is looked after and nurtured and feed and someone getting up in the mornings with her...Its a mess..as many cases like these are hanks for you insight I do appreciate you being brutally honest. I suspect this is how a judge would see this as to the way your replying?

The court cannot hold Mom's financial status against her. As long as the child has a roof over her head, food in her belly and clothing on her back, that's all that matters.

Look. I know you feel very strongly about this. But I'm not sure if you're understanding things.

You've actually gone so far as saying that you want the clause just in case Mom changes her mind - do you see what you're doing there?

As far as relocation, you don't have a choice there either. If your son wishes to object, he is more than welcome to do so. If he does not or cannot, then that's all there is to it.

She's not unfit. The child is not in danger. Mom appears to have convincing reasons, and if that's the case (family support does matter - at least on Mom's side, since she's the primary), the burden then shifts to Dad to prove why the relocation is not in the child's best interest. The court is not going to deny the relocation because you're going to be around - it's going to fall on Dad and you've said yourself that he isn't suitable for primary. It leaves the court with no option.

All the court cares about is the child and the child's ability to have reasonable access to both parents.

And your son needs to understand that he'll be paying child support which will help Mom financially.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think you're being the bad guy. But I do think you're enabling your son to sit on his backside.

Ok yes I do get what you mean about the clause. She suggested that herself but will just forget that. Nothing has been ordered from any court yet no one has yet been to court we are just starting that process... We where told that we need to get a court order stating she must give 30 or 60 day notice if she wants to leave state..So son can have time to fight it which he will..There is not court order about anything yet as to who has primary visitation nothing yet but we are filling next week.. If the court cares about the childs ability to have reasonable access to both parents ..How would that be possible?? Dad in Maine his daughter in Virginia? So the court doesn't care if mom is not paying the rent and she would not have a rent if moms dad and us are paying for it????? Ok..... And son's child support would be not much when his income is S.S.I....He only gets 661.00 a month income.

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Ok yes I do get what you mean about the clause. She suggested that herself but will just forget that. Nothing has been ordered from any court yet no one has yet been to court we are just starting that process... We where told that we need to get a court order stating she must give 30 or 60 day notice if she wants to leave state..So son can have time to fight it which he will..There is not court order about anything yet as to who has primary visitation nothing yet but we are filling next week.. If the court cares about the childs ability to have reasonable access to both parents ..How would that be possible?? Dad in Maine his daughter in Virginia? So the court doesn't care if mom is not paying the rent and she would not have a rent if moms dad and us are paying for it????? Ok..... And son's child support would be not much when his income is S.S.I....He only gets 661.00 a month income.

---

Grandma, you cannot make the argument that mom isn't paying the rent, when your son isn't paying for his housing either.

You also are just now disclosing a very important fact. If your son is mentally disabled enough that he is collecting SSI (and I am assuming that you are his rep payee) then that just proves that he is not suitable for primary custody. If he is not suitable for primary custody, then he is not going to be able to stop mom from relocating with the child.

I did state that he is not suitable for primary custody neither of them are..His ssi pays for his rent that money does come to me as his rep and is used for his housing..

- - - Updated - - -

So dads not fit due to his mental disibility for primary. Someone stated I'm legally responsible for not reporting the terrible boyfriend with the criminal history.So if i do that then the court would say moms not fit due him am I right? So dads not fit moms not fit ..What becomes of this little girl? Foster care no way. Thats why I and husband have not reported this concern as we do not know what would happen to her no way is she going to foster care as long as we can help it..And thats not being a meddling grandparent any man that breaks his girl friends jaw with a punch. Then another domestic charge with a motor vehicle with her child in the car is not fit nor safe to be in the same house as a 6year old.Hes not allowed to have his own children! This is just the tip of the iceburg of his criminal history.... My son admits he does not feel that he can be her primary parent..Nor should he be...Its a mess plain and simple with no real solution...

No, you are not right.

The boyfriend's criminal history won't even matter if it doesn't directly impact the child. Did you know that convicted felons can have custody of their own children?

And this gets even worse. You won't report because you want her versus her being in a safe foster home?

Please. Just stop. You're just not getting it. There's only so much we can say here. We're not saying things you want to hear and yes, I get the frustration and so does llworking - we're grandparents too (good Lord that looks weird when I type that) and while it would devastate us to have the children no longer see us, I think it's safe to say that our wishes and our needs are FAR lower than the parents' wishes.

Your son won't be getting custody. And despite what you think you know, unless Mom's boyfriend/new husband/father/aunt/relative/bff presents a direct threat to the child, your son has nothing.

And I'm sorry, but you've got less than nothing.

And yes, it's a tad hypocritical to condemn Mom's lack of earnings when your own son isn't exactly providing for himself either.

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

I did state that he is not suitable for primary custody neither of them are

---

That's up to a COURT to decide...and apparantly at this point, no COURT has declared mom unfit. THAT is the crux of the issue.

Quote:

---

So dads not fit due to his mental disibility for primary.

---

Then that really answers a lot of questions.

Quote:

---

Someone stated I'm legally responsible for not reporting the terrible boyfriend with the criminal history.So if i do that then the court would say moms not fit due him am I right?

---

No. JUST having a boyfriend with a criminal history won't accomplish anything. The burden would be on DAD to PROVE to the court that the boyfriend presents a CLEAR danger to the child. How does dad do that? He shows the court things like police reports or convictions where the boyfriend DIRECTLY endangered ANY child; ie selling drugs with a child in the car, committing a violent crime with a child in the room, things like that. Courts are perfectly willing to accept that people mess up and deserve second chances, and to get past that hurdle DAD needs to show that just him BEING around the child is too dangerous. Otherwise, we're back to the court's status quo position that mom is capable of keeping the child away from unsavory activities.

Quote:

---

So dads not fit moms not fit ..What becomes of this little girl? Foster care no way.

---

That's possible. But again, at this point, mom has NOT been declared unfit.

Quote:

---

Thats why I and husband have not reported this concern as we do not know what would happen to her no way is she going to foster care as long as we can help it.

---

It's statements like that which are going to end up preventing you from having contact with the child. Because either (a) mom is going to leave with the child and keep you away, or (b) a court is going to look at you as the mother in the story of Solomon who was happy to have the child cut in half, and will accordingly order custody or visitation to anyone BUT you. You are either concerned ULTIMATELY for the child's well-being OR you are concerned that YOU will get the access to the child that you want, no matter the consequence to the child. The courts will NOT see it that way.

Quote:

---

.And thats not being a meddling grandparent any man that breaks his girl friends jaw with a punch.

---

Was a child present?

Quote:

---

Then another domestic charge with a motor vehicle with her child in the car is not fit nor safe to be in the same house as a 6year old.

---

Google the term "failure to protect", then pick up the phone, get the courts involved, and let an outside party determine if mom has any business having him around the child. However, understand that mom's reaction to CPS investigating the boyfriend might be to pack up and leave the boyfriend to reside out of state. That would solve the child's safety problem.

Quote:

---

Its a mess plain and simple with no real solution...

---

This is true. And the reality you're facing is that the ULTIMATE solution is up to MOM until a court says otherwise.

Thank for explaining this to me..So if a felon can have custody then maybe a bipolar dad can...I'm not putting daughter in law down for not working. I'm just not able to keep paying for her rent and food nor is her dad able to we said a a year and the years up Sept 1st...

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Thank for explaining this to me..So if a felon can have custody then maybe a bipolar dad can...I'm not putting daughter in law down for not working. I'm just not able to keep paying for her rent and food nor is her dad able to we said a a year and the years up Sept 1st...

---

Many bipolar folk have custody of their children.

I don't however suggest you try to compare bipolar and felony.

At this point I'm going to politely retire from the thread. Unfortunately I'm seeing less about what's good for the child, and more of what's best for Dad and his parents.

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

So if a felon can have custody then maybe a bipolar dad can

---

That's absolutely possible. Dad simply having that diagnosis won't cause a court to automatically reject him as being a potential custodial parent. The court will have to look at the totality of "dad", how functional or dysfunctional he may be on many levels, how he's able to cope with many types of kid-related issues from sickness to discipline to talking about the birds and the bees, etc. However, the reality is that if he's dysfunctional to the extreme that he's unable to work, the court can't simply ignore that, nor award full parenting potential "points".

aardvarc....Thank you explaining the Bi Polar issue ..Yes he is dysfunctional..No he is not fit nor wants to have full custody of his daughter as he does have enough insite into his mental status...Its not only Bi Polar,,Extreme anxiety...OCD..Personality disorder. Since starting meds its taken from him mentally.Hes childish at best...But he does have the capacity to love his daughter. And very much wants to be a part of her life and see her weekly.Mom has no problem with this. The only problem is if she leaves state...Due to her to not being able to afford housing..I have tried and tried to just get her get on the list to get Section 8 housing as shes income eligible....But she can't even bother to do that... Thanks for your help...

I feel like I'm being attacked by some here as a child stealer..Not my intention..Yes I do want to see her..But take her from her mom no not at all....As in all things in life I have learned its not fair..Keep your fingers crossed for me that she stays here and finds work....

Also I really had no idea that a felon 3x times at that nand a weapon charge...Could be allowed around someone elses child. When theres a court order he can't his own....

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

aardvarc....Thank you explaining the Bi Polar issue ..Yes he is dysfunctional..No he is not fit nor wants to have full custody of his daughter as he does have enough insite into his mental status...Its not only Bi Polar,,Extreme anxiety...OCD..Personality disorder. Since starting meds its taken from him mentally.Hes childish at best...But he does have the capacity to love his daughter. And very much wants to be a part of her life and see her weekly.Mom has no problem with this. The only problem is if she leaves state...Due to her to not being able to afford housing..I have tried and tried to just get her get on the list to get Section 8 housing as shes income eligible....But she can't even bother to do that... Thanks for your help...

I feel like I'm being attacked by some here as a child stealer..Not my intention..Yes I do want to see her..But take her from her mom no not at all....As in all things in life I have learned its not fair..Keep your fingers crossed for me that she stays here and finds work....

Also I really had no idea that a felon 3x times at that nand a weapon charge...Could be allowed around someone elses child. When theres a court order he can't his own....

---

I don't think that you entirely understood what aardvarc was telling you.

Sure, a parent who is bipolar can have custody of their child. A parent whose bipolar is properly under control with medication. A parent who can function in the real world with a job and who can control their own finances. That is not your son...by your own admission.

I am truly sorry but the bottom line is that your son cannot stop a relocation of mom and the child...nor can you even if mom agrees to include visitation for you in the divorce paperwork...because it won't be enforceable.

I do not see you as a "child stealer". I see you as a very attached grandparent who doesn't understand legal reality. What I can see you as being is dad's supervisor for a standard long distance plan if mom does relocate.

Yes I do think that if she moves then thats what it will come to my being dad's supervisor...I just can't understand why they allow someone to just up and move half way across the USA. For no reason that would benefit the move..But my hands are tied.. May I ask one more thing if she moves they usually do allow long visting times during summer vacation? And also school vacations? And who must be responsible for getting the child from A to point B?

I'm very rarely for people taking their children away from the other parent, but all I've read in this thread thus far suggests that if being this close to dad means having to deal with an overly intrusive (for whatever reason) set of grandparents (or just grandmother), mom should get the hell out of dodge. Let dad deal with it if he's able to.

Intrusive??? By asking questions? If you don't ask you stay ignorant..Dad will have to deal with it. I'm just asking things to learn how dad can deal with it...Intrusive ..I let this women live in my home for 9 years..She never did a lick of house work ,washed a dish or laundry nor paid one cent. Myself and husband supported all 3 food, housing bought her her first car..And I have no regrets... provided free child care and most of all love. And I love them both still. I have no ill will against my daughter in law at all nor does she me...Unless you have lived with a mentally ill person you do not know what its like nor do you know his limitations as to being a advocate for himself.... Sometimes if you don't have anything good to say then its best to zip it! Unless you lived my life then you have no clue..These forums are for people to ask questions and thats all I'm doing is asking. Not saying I am doing anything! This week she came over with a swollen nose cause mom was having a bad one and slamed the door into her face but thats fine

Quote:

---

Quoting gardenandcats

---

Intrusive???

---

Yes, intrusive.

Quote:

---

I let this women live in my home for 9 years..She never did a lick of house work ,washed a dish or laundry nor paid one cent. Myself and husband supported all 3 food, housing bought her her first car..

---

All your choice

Quote:

---

And I have no regrets...

---

Then shut up about it and stop counting gifts.

Quote:

---

provided free child care and most of all love.

---

Great. Again, you decided to provide free child care. No one forced you to. You're still providing child care to your son.

Quote:

---

And I love them both still. I have no ill will against my daughter in law at all nor does she me

---

Show her this thread then have her get in touch with me. I'd like to ask her if she still feels the same way after she reads the 4 pages of stuff you said about her. I bet she won't. She has no ill will against you because she doesn't know what you REALLY think about her.

Quote:

---

...Unless you have lived with a mentally ill person you do not know what its like nor do you know his limitations as to being a advocate for himself....

---

Next time advocate for him BEFORE he gets married and has sex. BTW... if he's so unable to care and make decisions, have you taken him to court to seek conservatorship over him? That would be the FIRST way to show that you care for him and his well being.

Show her this thread then have her get in touch with me. I'd like to ask her if she still feels the same way after she reads the 4 pages of stuff you said about her. I bet she won't. She has no ill will against you because she doesn't know what you REALLY think about her.

Why should she get in touch with you????? What I said about her all true facts and wanting answers.... Yep ok my choice I let her live in my house....And I came her asking about how to help my son see his daughter not asking about taking him to court......Hes not so bad that he needs someone to have conservatorship over him. But he chooses to stay here and doesn't want to live on his own if he wanted to then he can NP....Wow ...So take this week end. daughter in law will you take her all week end from friday after school till sometime sunday? Yes ok.. Come Sunday no mom doesn't reply to text doesn't pick up phone ...Finally around 5 ish she replies.. I slept all day you can bring her home to the rent I have to pay for..So ok i will shut up my choice paying her rent. next month the landlord can put them on the street.

Necessity is the mother of invention. Adults have failure to launch syndrome because their parents (or adults in their lives) don't force them to launch. Next they'll be 40 living in your house with 12 kids because although they're too disabled, ill or whatever to move on their own, they're NOT too disabled to screw and make babies. Where I come from, they call that enabling.

It's only the important stuff they can't do.

And all you have done instead supplying answer's is try and make me the bad person..Whats with that?

- - - Updated - - -

Adults have failure to launch syndrome because their parents (or adults in their lives) don't force them to launch. Yes your right about that I'm guilty........

No. I enlightened you. Do with it what you must.

Thanks for enlightening me I really appreciate that you took the time to help...