Can a Parent Include Grandparents Visitation in a Divorce Decree

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Quoting gardenandcats

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I suggest you inform yourself more abut mentall illness then you can answer your own question... I will more then likely have to at least have son speak with a lawyer and see what the lawyer thinks is the best course of action...In Maine we do have free legal help. Spoke with them..They said if there is no court order in Place about her just up and leaving state she can..But the judge would not look very favorable on her doing this..They sugessted quickly filing paper work for a divorce so this can be ordered that she must give 30 day notice. They are calling by phone to help us with the paper work middle of the week....Told daughter in law she says shes ok with how things are now no hurry for a divorce "Shrugs" But shes ok with it long as though she has to not pay anything..

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Well, that was jolly fast. Well done.

OP,

I am not a lawyer, but am responding because you are a mother to a child with special needs. I can empathize with what you must have gone through and are continuing to endure !

I get that you feel helpless and upset over the break up of your son's marriage and losing frequent contact with your grandchild if Mom should relocate to a more affordable place where she can actually manage to live AND provide for her daughter.

Here is the legal reality, though : this is not your fight at all. This is your son's fight. If he is disabled and is not able to fight, the unfortunate fact of the matter is that his ex is going to get full custody of their daughter and can then move wherever she wants to move, regardless of your desires in the matter. The only way you have any chance of ensuring continuing regular contact with your GD is to get your son to accept responsibility for his kid, and fight for custody himself. If he can't do that, you are out of luck. Unfortunately.

I realize that I am saying the same thing that other people have, before me. I think you would have enough on your plate already, with a son who has never graduated middle school and is struggling with his own challenges. I honestly think your time would be better spent getting your son the help he obviously needs so he can eventually get a job, move out and start living his life as an independent adult should. I don't mean this maliciously, but if I were in your shoes, my priority would be my own child, not my grandchild. I feel that he should never have been allowed to have a child before he could legally assume responsibility for an offspring, but that is all water under the bridge.

I wish you well. You may want to continue being on good terms with your ex-DIL so that you have frequent access to your GD while you work to get your son the help that he obviously needs. You won't be around forever, and your time is honestly better invested in HIM than in his child. In your position, I would actually be glad that my DIL is fairly competent and can take care of your grandchild, instead of forcing your son to take on a responsibility that he obviously cannot shoulder at this point of time.

JMHO.

His ex does not want full custody she says joint custody with her having physical custody and dad having her week ends and one school night till after supper time..... Why would Virginia be a more affordable place where she can actually manage to live AND provide for her daughter. She chooses to not work here so why would she work there..her thought of the move is her dad will provide for her...he's spoken with me and says hes done all he can..hes paying 1/3 rent for a year and the years up sept 1st He told me Virginia is not a viable option for her to move.....
I have tried since my son was a small child to get him help..Been so many shrinks none still can say for sure what he has some say Bi polar with psychotic tendencies..Others say schizo effective disorder..Along with anxiety OCD and non specific personality disorder....Sometimes they never will be able to work I wish....His current psychiatrist feels his wife was his trigger as she treated him terrible..he was not allowed to have one say in his daughters care....She was always telling him he wa stupid..retarded. shut up don't talk to me.. hes doing better with her gone...

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As he daughter is getting older he is able to parent her better..As a baby and toddler no not at all. But now shes a person they talk he takes time with her and wants to be a part of her life

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Quoting gardenandcats

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His ex does not want full custody she says joint custody with her having physical custody and dad having her week ends and one school night till after supper time..... Why would Virginia be a more affordable place where she can actually manage to live AND provide for her daughter. She chooses to not work here so why would she work there..her thought of the move is her dad will provide for her...he's spoken with me and says hes done all he can..hes paying 1/3 rent for a year and the years up sept 1st He told me Virginia is not a viable option for her to move.....
I have tried since my son was a small child to get him help..Been so many shrinks none still can say for sure what he has some say Bi polar with psychotic tendencies..Others say schizo effective disorder..Along with anxiety OCD and non specific personality disorder....Sometimes they never will be able to work I wish....His current psychiatrist feels his wife was his trigger as she treated him terrible..he was not allowed to have one say in his daughters care....She was always telling him he wa stupid..retarded. shut up don't talk to me.. hes doing better with her gone...

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As he daughter is getting older he is able to parent her better..As a baby and toddler no not at all. But now shes a person they talk he takes time with her and wants to be a part of her life

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The fact that you are talking to your DIL's father about the situation just puts you even more in the "meddling grandmother" category. I am really sorry that you cannot see that.

My daughter and granddaughter lived in my home until my granddaughter was about six...and will probably be coming back sometime soon. However, I reminded myself on a daily basis that I was "just the grandma" and that some day they would be leaving my home and I might not get to see my granddaughter very often. Had I not done that, I would probably have felt just as frantic as you appear to feel about the fact that your granddaughter might be moving away.

I know what you really want. I know that want you really want is for your granddaughter to be living in your home again. Your second choice is for your granddaughter to be close by so that she practically lives in your home. You have to accept the fact that in the long term, that may not happen. You don't like mom's boyfriend but you fail to acknowledge that if mom moves to VA that will likely put the boyfriend that you don't like out of the picture.

And...you did hint at YOU possibly attempting for custody of the child earlier in this thread. I emphasize with your situation. However, you are really all over the place with your questions and its clear that you are possibly unhealthily attached...and I don't mean that as critical as it sounds. Grandparents whose grandchildren live in their homes do get attached more in a parental way than a grandparental way...its a normal, human reaction.

However, its time for you to understand that due to your son's problems, which are considerable, that its necessary for you to maintain a good relationship with your daughter in law if you want to continue to be a major player in your granddaughter's life. However, I am not sure that its in your best interest or your granddaughter's best interest for you to continue to finance mom. At the same time its also not in your best interest or your granddaughter's best interest for you to try to sabotage mom to the point where her family won't help her either.

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Quoting gardenandcats

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His ex does not want full custody she says joint custody with her having physical custody and dad having her week ends and one school night till after supper time..... Why would Virginia be a more affordable place where she can actually manage to live AND provide for her daughter. She chooses to not work here so why would she work there..her thought of the move is her dad will provide for her...he's spoken with me and says hes done all he can..hes paying 1/3 rent for a year and the years up sept 1st He told me Virginia is not a viable option for her to move.....
I have tried since my son was a small child to get him help..Been so many shrinks none still can say for sure what he has some say Bi polar with psychotic tendencies..Others say schizo effective disorder..Along with anxiety OCD and non specific personality disorder....Sometimes they never will be able to work I wish....His current psychiatrist feels his wife was his trigger as she treated him terrible..he was not allowed to have one say in his daughters care....She was always telling him he wa stupid..retarded. shut up don't talk to me.. hes doing better with her gone...

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As he daughter is getting older he is able to parent her better..As a baby and toddler no not at all. But now shes a person they talk he takes time with her and wants to be a part of her life

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My kids are still little, but I chimed in for whatever my feedback was worth.

I strongly feel (that for a mother with a special needs child) YOUR PRIORITIES ARE VERY SADLY MESSED UP. I can't understand how you would worry more about access to your grandchild when your ADULT SON needs as much help as you claim he does. How long are you going to around to provide for him ? Do you not see the urgency to help him get on his feet and seek gainful employment that would allow him to support himself AFTER your time ? Do you plan on outliving him or living forever ? His meagre SSI won't translate to even minimum living wages, UNLESS you do something NOW to help him make a living for himself.

I am sorry but I don't get you. In your shoes, I would be worried sick about my son and the last thing on my mind would be visitation with my GD and fighting my DIL for HER child. I really think you should get your priorities straight. And your psychiatrist is plain wrong. Your DIL did not cause your son's special needs. AND, if she did aggravate his existing conditions, then all the better that she be gone. Get what I am saying ?

Anyway, good luck. And, I will reiterate that YOUR SON needs you MORE than HIS DAUGHTER does. I will repeat - ad infinitum - that Your PRIORITY should be your son, not his daughter.

Primum non nocere.

Your all have a point I agree my son should be the main priority..Which he has been since the day he was born 28 years ago! When can he stop being my priority????? He will not or can not do any kind of gainfull employment. been down all the roads you mention all well traveled...Nothing changes with him....You can't begin to imagine all the agencies ,doctors, therapist,mental health people I have tried to get him healthy..sadly sometimes thats just not possible..So how long do I give my life over to him? And no I honestly do not care to raise another child...Does anyone wonder how this childs mother who lived with my son for close to 10 years mental health is if she chose to live this way???? She herself would have to have problems??????? But thats not my business.. And how and earth am I sabotaging mom so her parents won't help her... to late as her dad said when he called me shes done that herself with her cold heart and years of neglecting him and only calling when she needs something.... he put her on a plane at the age of 17 and sent her here to live with me from Oregon and she had a meth addiction which we got her help for and he nor us knew it....The list goes on and on..sounds like a Soap Opera (Jerry Springer Material)....With the understanding she and my son would get work and a rent.... And will some please tell me how does a move to Virginia give them a better life????? She won't work here only has a GED so whats Virginia move going to do give her a college degree and a 6 figure a year job when she arrives???? I know sarcastic but I just feel that way at this time.... And my gosh son lives here so we should not mention divorce he wants a divorce and with the divorce comes custody and visitation issues and he needs someone to explain as best as they can..Which I know I have alot to learn with this divorce/custody ect.. Like I said hes been my priority for years and years and no his wife did not cause his problems and hes much better with her out of the house!!!@! Why is it considered unhealthy to have a strong bond with granddaughter????? IDK your a hard crowd to please

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Quoting gardenandcats

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Your all have a point I agree my son should be the main priority..Which he has been since the day he was born 28 years ago! When can he stop being my priority????? He will not or can not do any kind of gainfull employment. been down all the roads you mention all well traveled...Nothing changes with him....You can begin to imagine all the agencies ,doctors, therapist,metla health people I have tried to get him healthy..sadly sometimes thats just not possible..So how long do I give my life over to him?

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Unfortunately, that is part of the territory of raising a child with special needs. If your son is so terribly challenged that he will never be able to live an independent life, then unfortunately, he will have to be your priority in this life, the next, and the after life in-between.

And I don't say this lightly. I don't want to elaborate, but I know. Please believe me, I KNOW. But there are no two ways about it. You cannot take on the responsibility of another child when your own child is going to need you FOREVER.

I am not trying to hurt you. If anyone can even remotely understand what you are going through, that would be me. For good reason, too.

Please, for your own sanity, get help. Are you part of any Mom support groups ? I think it is time for you to take a break, walk away from this whole situation and seek emotional support for YOURSELF. A child like your son probably sucks any joy out of your life. But, rather than attempting to replace the special needs child you gave birth to by going after the typical daughter that HE gave birth to, focus on your own child. He needs you more than his daughter does.

I am so sorry. I just want you to know that I understand how difficult special needs parenting is. Unfortunately, this wasn't something you signed up for, but are responsible for, nevertheless.

Forget about your DIL, her relationship with her parents, and her daughter. Your son is more than enough. And please seek counseling and emotional support. If you want, I can direct you to some special needs parenting groups which have older parents participating. I think you would benefit from talking to the folks there. This is not a legal issue you are facing, but a psychological one. As devastated as you sound, you need to pull yourself together, get your priorities in order, forget about the fluff and focus on your boy.

It sucks, it is WHOLLY UNFAIR, but life is unfair. Believe me, I know.

Good luck. Stay strong. And turn your attention back to your boy. ((Hugs)).

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Quoting gardenandcats

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Your all have a point I agree my son should be the main priority..Which he has been since the day he was born 28 years ago! When can he stop being my priority????? He will not or can not do any kind of gainfull employment. been down all the roads you mention all well traveled...Nothing changes with him....You can't begin to imagine all the agencies ,doctors, therapist,mental health people I have tried to get him healthy..sadly sometimes thats just not possible..So how long do I give my life over to him? And no I honestly do not care to raise another child...Does anyone wonder how this childs mother who lived with my son for close to 10 years mental health is if she chose to live this way???? She herself would have to have problems??????? But thats not my business.. And how and earth am I sabotaging mom so her parents won't help her... to late as her dad said when he called me shes done that herself with her cold heart and years of neglecting him and only calling when she needs something.... he put her on a plane at the age of 17 and sent her here to live with me from Oregon and she had a meth addiction which we got her help for and he nor us knew it....The list goes on and on..sounds like a Soap Opera (Jerry Springer Material)....With the understanding she and my son would get work and a rent.... And will some please tell me how does a move to Virginia give them a better life????? She won't work here only has a GED so whats Virginia move going to do give her a college degree and a 6 figure a year job when she arrives???? I know sarcastic but I just feel that way at this time.... And my gosh son lives here so we should not mention divorce he wants a divorce and with the divorce comes custody and visitation issues and he needs someone to explain as best as they can..Which I know I have alot to learn with this divorce/custody ect.. Like I said hes been my priority for years and years and no his wife did not cause his problems and hes much better with her out of the house!!!@! Why is it considered unhealthy to have a strong bond with granddaughter????? IDK your a hard crowd to please

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You've been answered by several different posters, all of whom (some I know for sure, others I'm taking an educated guess) have had what may be considered very atypical family situations. Two at least, are grandparents. Others have blended families. At least one has both. None of us get paid for this and tend to go out of our way to not just try to help with what's best for the child, but also to try and give the parents some clue about how it all works.

You keep asking what's good about Mom moving elsewhere with only a GED. Perhaps the answer is "dunno - might be better, might not be". Had you been on a different forum, you would have been shut down in about a nanosecond because legally, you're a third party and it's just not your legal business. As cold as it might sound, that's actually the truth.

I get the feeling you're responding based on instinct. Completely natural. But with it, comes the realization that this isn't a support board, it's not a grandparents rights board, and many people here won't even talk to a legal stranger (that's what you are in the eyes of the law). You're reacting with emotion and when it comes to third parties, the law is unemotional and is clearly black and white. The situation is between your son and his ex. Not you. Not her Dad. Mom doesn't need to justify anything to you.

You're also talking from both sides (to put it politely). On the one hand, she's a great Mom and you and she have a great relationship. But on the other hand, you're painting her to be the cold-hearted meth-addicted selfish little harridan who has ruined everything and is now trying to take your grandchild away. It's not both.

The point we're all trying to make is this:

Mom is not all bad. Your son is not all bad. They are imperfect, they're parents, and they're pretty much doing what they think is right for the child. And if the court decides that no contact (or very little) with you is best because you're far too involved (and you are, let's be honest), that's what the court will rule.

You need to understand that the court trusts the parents to make the right choices for the child. Sometimes that involves moving away. It really is that simple.

Once again, you need to take about 20 steps back. The best thing you can do is back off, and help your son pay for an attorney.

Thank you for understanding sounds like you have walked the walk yourself...No I don't belong to any parent help groups none around that I'm aware of..So yes I would like it if you could lead me into the right direction as to special needs parenting groups....

I'm not going to throw my granddaughter to the wolves though either..And my son does love her and wishes to have her visit..Just because he has serious mental health issues hes not dangerous and he should still be able to be a dad to his daughter...


He does suck the joy out of my life many many times. Its taken alot of years and meds but finally seeing some positive changes with the wife gone and the right combo of meds...I worry to death about what will become of him when I and his dad are gone...

Its it so bad that this little girl has brought some sunshine and happiness to Him ,I and Grampy??? Its not fair that we will always have to be his caretaker but thats the way it will be...
I just can not turn my back on her...But yes I will back off.....Thank you


No she is not a meth addict she did have a problem when she was 17 thats many years ago....Glad someone has said they dunno if a move would be good......

Shes a ok mom at best and I'm a ok nan at best...I am a third party asking for legal advice as my son doesn't know what he should ask????Anyways ty all for your help I think its time to close this out...

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Quoting gardenandcats

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Thank you for understanding sounds like you have walked the walk yourself...No I don't belong to any parent help groups none around that I'm aware of..So yes I would like it if you could lead me into the right direction as to special needs parenting groups....

I'm not going to throw my granddaughter to the wolves though either..And my son does love her and wishes to have her visit..Just because he has serious mental health issues hes not dangerous and he should still be able to be a dad to his daughter...


He does suck the joy out of my life many many times. Its taken alot of years and meds but finally seeing some positive changes with the wife gone and the right combo of meds...I worry to death about what will become of him when I and his dad are gone...

Its it so bad that this little girl has brought some sunshine and happiness to Him ,I and Grampy??? Its not fair that we will always have to be his caretaker but thats the way it will be...
I just can not turn my back on her...But yes I will back off.....Thank you

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Throwing her to the wolves? REALLY? I give up. Do what you will.