Left Turn Against Posted Signs, but with Conflicting Traffic Signs, VC 22101(D)
My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Los Angeles, California
Hello -- I received a 22101(D) citation this morning for apparently making an illegal left turn against a posted no left turn sign.
I was going west on Wilshire Blvd and made what I believed to be a legal left turn across a broken double yellow line onto Lorraine Blvd (which is just past Crenshaw Blvd, where there has been a ton of ongoing construction for the last few months). I was immediately stopped by a motorcycle cop who was waiting on Lorraine. He informed me that there is a No Left Turn sign posted, which I did not see. I told him I was just going by the broken yellow.
From what the cop told me, the sign was put up relatively recently (in the last three months). Apparently the residents of Lorraine Blvd have complained about overflow traffic on their street due to the nearby construction and that's why the cop was stationed there. It seems this is such a common error that not only did he stop me, but he stopped someone else doing the exact same thing maybe a minute after I made the turn and cited us both at the same time.
My question is, if I go to contest it, is there a case to be made that there are conflicting traffic signals at the intersection of Lorraine and Wilshire. If the city was no longer going to allow a left turn there should they not have painted over the broken yellow lines when they put up the sign so as not to confuse?
To me, this seems to set a precedent that drivers should second guess every move they make at every intersection. The cop said the city doesn't want people making a left there because it obstructs traffic on Wilshire, so they're apparently aware there is a problem and people think it is okay to make lefts there. Would it not make more sense to correct the problem (paint over the lines) rather than post a cop there to hand out what must amount to a lot of citations.
Will it also help my case that this is my first citation in six years of driving in LA?
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Re: Left Turn Against Posted Signs, VC 22101(D) - but Conflicting Traffic Signs
Odd, looking at the google maps it's not even looking legal but there's a left turn only lane there. Was this sign something special for the construction?
Re: Left Turn Against Posted Signs, VC 22101(D) - but Conflicting Traffic Signs
No, it's a relatively new sign but I don't believe it is temporary. I need to go back and take photographs -- honestly I didn't see it at all and simply went by the lines in the road. I'm hoping that's enough to perhaps mount a mistake of fact defense.
Re: Left Turn Against Posted Signs, VC 22101(D) - but Conflicting Traffic Signs
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Quoting
Hampshire90027
I was going west on Wilshire Blvd and made what I believed to be a legal left turn across a broken double yellow line onto Lorraine Blvd
The broken double yellow lines are not for you to turn left (southbound) onto Lorraine. Instead they are intended for traffic turning left onto Wilshire from Lorraine (the other side from where you turned).
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Hampshire90027
Apparently the residents of Lorraine Blvd have complained about overflow traffic on their street due to the nearby construction and that's why the cop was stationed there.
Actually, it is not just Wilshire & Lorraine. While the current phase starts at Wilshire & Lorraine (that is where the right lane is closed), it extends for several blocks (6-8 blocks) for traffic headed westbound, then the 3 westbound lanes open up which is where the construction zone ends. The same thing applies for traffic headed eastbound. In fact just past Lorraine, you will see 3 no left turn signs
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Hampshire90027
He informed me that there is a No Left Turn sign posted, which I did not see. I told him I was just going by the broken yellow.
The sign is there... And about all the city can do is post signs... In fact, that is all that is required under the law.
22101
(a) The Department of Transportation or local authorities in respect to highways under their respective jurisdictions, may cause official traffic control devices to be placed or erected within or adjacent to intersections to regulate or prohibit turning movements at such intersections.
(b) When turning movements are required at an intersection notice of such requirement shall be given by erection of a sign, unless an additional clearly marked traffic lane is provided for the approach to the turning movement, in which event notice as applicable to such additional traffic lane shall be given by any official traffic control device.
(c) When right- or left-hand turns are prohibited at an intersection notice of such prohibition shall be given by erection of a sign.
(d) When official traffic control devices are placed as required in subdivisions (b) or (c), it shall be unlawful for any driver of a vehicle to disobey the directions of such official traffic control devices.
I don't know what time of day/night you made your turn but there are times where you attempt to make thst turn, and traffic behind you will raise hell before you finish it... And with The city can post signs all day long, and everybody can claim they did not see them...
The question then becomes, who is truly honest saying they did not see the sign and who saw it, but decided for some reason the law does not apply to him/her? Sucks for the honest few who truly missed it, but such is life.
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Hampshire90027
My question is, if I go to contest it, is there a case to be made that there are conflicting traffic signals at the intersection of Lorraine and Wilshire. If the city was no longer going to allow a left turn there should they not have painted over the broken yellow lines when they put up the sign so as not to confuse?
There is no conflict. The dashed lines, as I described above are not to allow you to make the turn, instead they are there to allow traffic coming off of Lorraine to turn left on Wilshire. In fact if you turned over the dashed lines also means that you drove over the double solid lines (which are there to simulate an island or a segment of the roadway that you cannot drive over). Doing so is in violation of:
21651
(a) Whenever a highway has been divided into two or more roadways by means of intermittent barriers or by means of a dividing section of not less than two feet in width, either unpaved or delineated by curbs, double-parallel lines, or other markings on the roadway, it is unlawful to do either of the following:
(1) To drive any vehicle over, upon, or across the dividing section.
(2) To make any left, semicircular, or U-turn with the vehicle on the divided highway, except through an opening in the barrier designated and intended by public authorities for the use of vehicles or through a plainly marked opening in the dividing section.
(b) It is unlawful to drive any vehicle upon a highway, except to the right of an intermittent barrier or a dividing section which separates two or more opposing lanes of traffic. Except as otherwise provided in subdivision (c), a violation of this subdivision is a misdemeanor.
(c) Any willful violation of subdivision (b) which results in injury to, or death of, a person shall be punished by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170 of the Penal Code, or imprisonment in a county jail for a period of not more than six months.
So your attempt to create a defense for yourself, you are not only admitting guilt of violating the prohibition mandated by the sign, but you are admitting guilt to another violation as well.
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Hampshire90027
To me, this seems to set a precedent that drivers should second guess every move they make at every intersection.
Well, yo should... And if you are unsure if a turn you are making is unsafe or illegal, keep driving until you get to an intersection where you feel safew and in compliance with the law.
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Hampshire90027
The cop said the city doesn't want people making a left there because it obstructs traffic on Wilshire, so they're apparently aware there is a problem and people think it is okay to make lefts there. Would it not make more sense to correct the problem (paint over the lines) rather than post a cop there to hand out what must amount to a lot of citations.
Your entire argument is predicated upon the fact the (a) you saw the sign prohibiting the left turn, and (b) you saw the dashed lines and misinterpreted them to mean you could turn, which created this so called "conflict" in your mind. Fact is, you started this thread saying you did not see the sing..... And POOOF... all of a sudden, the conflict disappears!
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Hampshire90027
Will it also help my case that this is my first citation in six years of driving in LA?
Driving for 6 years without a citation simply means you drove around for 6 years without getting caught.... We all commit traffic violations all the time. Only sometimes, the cop is right there watching us do so.
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Quoting flyingron
Odd, looking at the google maps it's not even looking legal but there's a left turn only lane there. Was this sign something special for the construction?
Yes, the left turn lane was eliminated for the short period of time that they laid down a new layer of concrete underneath the rightmost tow lanes of traffic on either side of Wilshire Blvd. In fact the entire center lane is gone during construction...
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Quoting Hampshire90027;
No, it's a relatively new sign but I don't believe it is temporary. I need to go back and take photographs -- honestly I didn't see it at all and simply went by the lines in the road. I'm hoping that's enough to perhaps mount a mistake of fact defense.
It is a temporary sign.. It along with several other signs in both directions on Wilshire in the area of construction went up only as a matter to reduce congestion while only having much less of the roadway open to traffic. mistake of fact is not a defense, and your photos will only confirm that not only is there no left turn lane, but that the road markings would not allow for a turn at that intersection...
But its your case.. Your decision to proceed as you see fit. Just understand that once you elect to contest it, traffic school may cease to be an option.