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Cut Off While Approaching a Red Light, Resulting in a Rear-End Collision

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  • 02-26-2014, 06:57 PM
    Euroking
    Cut Off While Approaching a Red Light, Resulting in a Rear-End Collision
    My question involves a traffic accident in the State of: Missouri

    Background before I get into it. I have full coverage and am driving a 2012 Eclipse. The driver is driving a 2010-12 Subaru sti hatch. I am from Missouri and this happened in saint louis.

    I will include this picture to help explain my story. Purple car is my car. Blue car is his car. Brown car is already stopped at light. Black car is witness.

    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/811/bhqj.png

    What happened.

    I turn right onto the street on which the accident happen and so does the blue car. He is driving behind me by about a car length on the lane next to me. We start to approach at light that just turned red. ( The light is there because there is a elementary school right next to it ) There is already a car stopped on his lane ( brown car ). I ASSUME the other drive ( blue car ) did not notice that the light had just turned red and thought the car infront of his was making a left turn and assumed he could speed up and go around him because he speeds up right past me ( he speed up to maybe 40ish while I am beginning to make a stop from 35 mph ), right before he is a foot behind the car that is already stopped, and cuts me off switching my lane with only inches from hitting me switch lanes. While switching lanes I ASSUME he noticed the light was red and SLAMMED on his brakes leaving me no room to react as he was inches from my bumper from cutting me off. After this hit he pull off into parking lot and I pull into a different one. I get out of my car and notice a women shouting trying to catch my attention. I approach her and she tells me she saw the whole thing happen as she was waiting at a parking lot right across the street to start work. She tells me how she saw the blue car drive recklessly, cut me off and slam on his brakes.

    EDIT: I would like to add that he did not use his signal when switching lanes and cutting me off.

    I would like to know your inputs on whose at fault.

    Please and thank you.
  • 02-26-2014, 08:05 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    My question involves a traffic accident in the State of: Missouri

    Background before I get into it. I have full coverage and am driving a 2012 Eclipse. The driver is driving a 2010-12 Subaru sti hatch. I am from Missouri and this happened in saint louis.

    I will include this picture to help explain my story. Purple car is my car. Blue car is his car. Brown car is already stopped at light. Black car is witness.


    What happened.

    I turn right onto the street on which the accident happen and so does the blue car. He is driving behind me by about a car length on the lane next to me. We start to approach at light that just turned red. ( The light is there because there is a elementary school right next to it ) There is already a car stopped on his lane ( brown car ). I ASSUME the other drive ( blue car ) did not notice that the light had just turned red and thought the car infront of his was making a left turn and assumed he could speed up and go around him because he speeds up right past me ( he speed up to maybe 40-50ish while I am beginning to make a stop from 35 mph ), right before he is a foot behind the car that is already stopped, and cuts me off switching my lane with only inches from hitting me switch lanes. While switching lanes I ASSUME he noticed the light was red and SLAMMED on his brakes leaving me no room to react as he was inches from my bumper from cutting me off. After this hit he pull off into parking lot and I pull into a different one. I get out of my car and notice a women shouting trying to catch my attention. I approach her and she tells me she saw the whole thing happen as she was waiting at a parking lot right across the street to start work. She tells me how she saw the blue car drive recklessly, cut me off and slam on his brakes.

    EDIT: I would like to add that he did not use his signal when switching lanes and cutting me off.

    I would like to know your inputs on whose at fault.

    Please and thank you.

    If he abruptly switched lanes and more so with out signalling, then he may be at fault for an illegal lane change. Whether that was the primary or even the only cause for the collision is anyone's guess. This is based on the way you describe how things happened. Of course as the case may usually be, he might have a slightly different version than yours. You never mentioned the location of the damage on either car and that is typically a critical factor in determining fault in cases like this. So if you can offer that information, you might get a slightly different answer.

    For some reason or another, and while it is still possible that he cut you off, it appears that he was in front of you when you hit him. At least this is how it sounds from this part here:

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    ... right before he is a foot behind the car that is already stopped, and cuts me off switching my lane with only inches from hitting me switch lanes. While switching lanes I ASSUME he noticed the light was red and SLAMMED on his brakes leaving me no room to react as he was inches from my bumper from cutting me off.

    In other words if his car sustained damage on his rear bumper and your car sustained damage on your front bumper, he can easily claim that he was in the lane in front of you, and that you simply rear ended him.

    This does not totally eliminate a possible third scenario that might present itself and it would go something like this: what are the chances that you too were racing, he ended up slightly ahead of you and thought he can maneuver into your lane and as he did, with you trying to prevent him from cutting you off, you read ended him.

    You can correct me on this part but its no secret that the typical average Subaru STI driver in likely to be in his late teens, early 20s... Hot blooded and lead footed. And if I were to guess you might be in that same age group as well.

    Question that begs itself is if you have full coverage, what difference does it make who's at fault? Worry about getting your car fixed and let your insurance do the job that you paid them to do!

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    Could you elaborate on maintain space? I was not given space to maintain because when he cut me off there was literally inches between me and his rear bumper. Aggressive driver? If the speed limit was 45 and he is doing something really close to that he did not become an aggressive driver till he cut me off.

    I think based on your description, when you saw this part:

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    ( he speed up to maybe 40ish while I am beginning to make a stop from 35 mph ), right before he is a foot behind the car that is already stopped, and cuts me off switching my lane with only inches from hitting me switch lanes.

    You should have known or at least assumed that he was going to look for a space to go with the car in front of him stopped, and the only likely place was not going to be opposite traffic lanes, it would have to be your lane, and you should have backed off.. But instead, you ASSUMED he was thinking the car in front of him was turning left, you ASSUMED he had not seen the red light, but you went about your business as if he was not there.

    Chances are, even if he did not cut you off and get into your lane and if instead, he would have hit the brown car at what you describe as a speed of approximately 40ish mph, and had you continued your forward movement ending up as first in your lane and immediately adjacent to the brown car, chances are you would have sustained some damage in that case as well, and hence the reason why you should have slowed down. This brings us back to the scenario where you too were racing and you were trying to block him from changing lanes only you ended up rear ending him. In that scenario, you would both share fault, him for racing and illegally changing lanes and you for racing and following too close.

    As for your witness and the claim that she witnessed him driving recklessly, that I would attribute to him possibly having a louder car than yours and people often misconstrue a loud car for one that is being driven recklessly...
  • 02-26-2014, 08:05 PM
    Euroking
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    First I would like to say thank you for taking your time to give your input.

    Her is pictures of the damage my car received.
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/850/49b2.jpg
    http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/23/qyrw.jpg

    You might be forget about the witness who saw it all happen in front of her. She was a manager at a local store and has credibility. She witnessed the Subaru driving recklassly and cut me off while I was driving at a safe speed and proper manner.

    He received damage on his right right rear bumper, which on my eye proves he changed lanes and was not already in front of me since only my right side has been hit .
  • 02-26-2014, 08:07 PM
    Disagreeable
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    Then it clearly seem to put the liability on him based on the damages.
  • 02-26-2014, 08:30 PM
    Euroking
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    Quote:

    Quoting That Guy
    View Post

    Question that begs itself is if you have full coverage, what difference does it make who's at fault? Worry about getting your car fixed and let your insurance do the job that you paid them to do!

    Well if it is my fault my insurance premium will increase, correct? I he is at fault it will not? Sorry I have never need in a wreck before.

    I was told not to contact my insurance company but rather file a claim with his.
  • 02-26-2014, 09:13 PM
    Disagreeable
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    I think TG will agree based on damages you were cut off.
  • 02-27-2014, 01:21 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    He received damage on his right right rear bumper, which on my eye proves he changed lanes and was not already in front of me since only my right side has been hit .

    Actually, saying his "right rear bumper" is inconsistent with the damage on your car, which appears to have been subject to some sheering force that was applied at the angle that your bumper was chopped off.

    But yes, it is feasible that he did cut you off, but that would be too easy to claim. His statement will drastically vary from a "yes, I was going too fast, and decided to cut into the right lane without signalling or clearing that no one was there and he crashed into me"...

    Also, "cutting you off' is subjective... Meaning, I could just as easily assume that he may have gained quite the distance on you and was in the process of changing lanes. As he approached the red light, he started to slow down and you started to catch up, eventually catching part of his right rear fender onto your left front fender and as he attempted to complete his lane change, he took part of your bumper with him.

    The part that I am still struggling with, is you do state you saw him approaching the red signal and the car in front at a speed that was higher that he should have. And no, you are not required to clear the way for him but a reasonable driver would have backed off long before the collision. Again,. it does not mean you should have backed off, it simply means you could have backed off.

    EDITED TO ADD: And to further add to this, because you were the driver further to the rear, this gave you the opportunity to at least attempt to avoid the accident. Whether the possibility to do so was slim or great, under the theory of "last clear chance" (which is the same as "contributory negligence"), you do carry some liability for the collision under a theory that you could have slowed down or stopped. If it ends up that the other insurer is willing to concede and accept full fault for the entire incident, might be a generous move on their part.

    Let me also qualify my comments by saying that I am not too familiar with Missouri laws in this area and am simply going by what I know.

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    You might be forget about the witness who saw it all happen in front of her. She was a manager at a local store and has credibility. She witnessed the Subaru driving recklassly and cut me off while I was driving at a safe speed and proper manner.

    Credibility is one matter... Expertise and valid testimony is another. Example.. Would you not admit that his car may be louder than yours?

    Even if that isn't true, ask your witness to estimate your speed and his speed... She'll probably say "I don't know" or blurt out some random number.

    Ask her for the legal definition of "reckless driving" she'll probably say 'I don't know" or somehow relate it to speed but speeding alone doe not mean reckless driving!

    And you never addressed my statement about a possibility that you too were racing! Not even an "no, we were not racing"...
  • 02-27-2014, 08:01 PM
    Euroking
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    Yes I hit his back rear bumper as he was switching lanes. So imagine the force of me hitting him and his rear bumper pushing/smashing into my front bumper.

    When he switched lanes he crossed the no switching line .... I don't really know what it is called but its the solid line on the road instead of the smaller ones that are separated. Does that not count for anything?

    I did did not notice the driver coming up behind me as I was not looking behind me when approaching a red light. I only noticed him right when he was on my side and cutting me off. I DID brake as hard as I could to avoid hitting him, but he was so close that it honestly did not matter if I braked or not the outcome would have been the same.


    I appologize about not addressing your statement about racing. I was 7:50 in the morning and I was heading the work. That last thing that was on my mind was me racing him on my way to work.
  • 03-03-2014, 04:25 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    Yes I hit his back rear bumper as he was switching lanes. So imagine the force of me hitting him and his rear bumper pushing/smashing into my front bumper.

    Sorry, and while you are free to stick to your story, it simply makes no sense at all. But what do I know.... For your car to sustain the sort of damage it sustained, the impact into his car would have to be from your left front fender into his right rear fender. And as he continued to move to his right, that tore of the segment off of your bumper the way it appears in the picture.

    http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1e1a2e5f.jpg

    You see the yellow arrows? And the grey/black stripes they are pointing to? Those stripes came from somewhere on his car.... And in the same diagonal direction that those stripes were marked, you also see the blue arrow and how it too is diagonal. The blue arrow represents the direction of the force that his car applied to yours upon impact. How do I know that? Th red circle represents a segment of your front bumper and left front fender that got chopped off due to the impact at the same moment he was moving into your lane.

    This refutes one thing... That being that you rear ended him. And in confirms two other things. That he did cut you off (which is mind boggling that you would want to prove he cut you off and instead yet you keep repeating that you rear ended him); but it also gives rise to a presumption that you may have been trying to keep him out of your lane... SO as he passed you and tried to merge over, you fell behind, he ended up 3/4 of a car length ahead of you, he started to merge, his right rear fender caught your left front fender and the rest is history.... You can even tell that your wheel/tire caught some of the impact as well... Unless you are going to suggest that your wheel/tire turned 90 degrees to the right and hit his rear bumper when you "rear ended him"...

    Had you hit his rear bumper as you describe, the part of the bumper that appears to be missing would likely still be there, only it will appear as if it were crushed (although with it being fiberglass it might crack in several spots).

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    When he switched lanes he crossed the no switching line .... I don't really know what it is called but its the solid line on the road instead of the smaller ones that are separated. Does that not count for anything?

    If you are describing the white stripe lane marker which I circled in red...

    http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5a1aa44c.jpg

    ... Then no, that does not count for anything! I am not aware of any prohibition to cross that line.

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    I did did not notice the driver coming up behind me as I was not looking behind me when approaching a red light. I only noticed him right when he was on my side and cutting me off.

    And unless you were intentionally trying to keep him out of your lane then the natural normal reaction to someone coming at you from the left is to brake and swerve right. Had you swerved right, your front left tire/wheel would not have gotten the hit it appears to have sustained.

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    I DID brake as hard as I could to avoid hitting him, but he was so close that it honestly did not matter if I braked or not the outcome would have been the same.

    So you are saying you had no inclination to swerve right as he started to cut you off? You only hit your brakes on and kept going straight?

    Well, then like I said above... Stick to your story and hopes his version somehow matches. Otherwise, both insurers will simply defer to their knowledge and expertise and they will end up fighting it out or going to arbitration (if that is the approved method in your state).

    I could be completely 100% wrong about every thing I have stated... Or you could be thinking "how the heck does this guy know all that".... I will not accept anything in between today... It is all or nothing! You don't have to answer that, and I am not saying what I said to challenge you or antagonize you, but simply to let you know that your statements do not make sense, and an experienced insurance adjuster would read right through you... And yes, I also realize that you've probably already given your statement... But you still need to be careful.

    Quote:

    Quoting Euroking
    View Post
    I appologize about not addressing your statement about racing. I was 7:50 in the morning and I was heading the work. That last thing that was on my mind was me racing him on my way to work.

    I was not asking for an apology... I was merely pointing out the fact that I thought it was an important question and you seemed to have ignored it. Answering it now makes little difference especially with what you offered as your reasoning...

    Good luck and drive carefully!
  • 03-03-2014, 11:33 PM
    Euroking
    Re: Cut Off and Brakes Slammed While Making a Stop at Light
    Sorry my english isnt the best so you might not be understanding what I am saying happened. I did not say I rear ended him. What I am saying pretty much what you are saying. He cuts me off ... by attempting to come into my lane. While attempting to come into my lane he/me hit each other however you want to look at that. MY front bumper/fender hits his rear bumper...I do not know if you call the place I hit him fender but I believe it is still his rear bumper? here is a pic of where his damage was. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/835/g4ae.jpg
    The only damage my fender received was the small dent it put into it.... ALL the missing parts are my bumper nothing from my fender came off.

    I Was not keeping him out of my lane. I was approaching a light that was red. There was no room to keep anyone out of anything? I feel ike you are assuming this was on a stretch of road and not at a red light.


    Now when he switches lanes, upon impact he is pushing into me and I am slamming on my brakes. That is why the damage looks like that. I could not swerve to the right because one only thing to the right of me at the time was a ditch and I dont think anyone in the world couldve reacted in time to swerve BEFORE the impact.

    Here is a picture if you still dont understand what im saying. http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/547/od8x.jpg



    I have not yet spoken to any isurance company as it takes 7-10 days for me to buy the police report from the police department and find out what insurance company he had.
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