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What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan

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  • 01-23-2014, 06:21 PM
    hondagirl
    What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    My question involves collection proceedings in the State of: California

    My loans have been sold off many times, since 2008. I recently asked the current holder of the loan if they had the original documents, or promissory note, or payment history of my loans. And they sent me a copy of a fax of the promissory note. Would this copy of a faxed promissory note hold up in court if I were to dispute it? I can't pay back my loans because I haven't found a job in my field or a job that pays enough to pay back my 150k loan.

    Thanks in advance for your time.
  • 01-23-2014, 06:23 PM
    aaron
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    The obligation of a debt collector to verify a debt is pretty low. You should not assume that, should they sue over the debt, they won't be able to produce better documentation.
  • 01-23-2014, 06:54 PM
    hondagirl
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    Hi Arron thank you so much for your reply, the thing is I know they don't have the original promissory note because I never sent them in. I was supposed to mail them after sending the fax, but I never got to it and they gave me the loan anyway plus the company that used to own the loan went bankrupt so my loan was resold and resold. So if they just have the faxed copy would that hold up in court?
  • 01-24-2014, 04:39 AM
    flyingron
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    If you took out the loan, most likely the documentation they have is sufficient. It's wishful thinking on your part to think that you're dodging this on some imagined technicality.
  • 01-24-2014, 04:56 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    Quote:

    Quoting hondagirl
    View Post
    Hi Arron thank you so much for your reply, the thing is I know they don't have the original promissory note because I never sent them in. I was supposed to mail them after sending the fax, but I never got to it and they gave me the loan anyway plus the company that used to own the loan went bankrupt so my loan was resold and resold. So if they just have the faxed copy would that hold up in court?


    May I ask if there is a reason you don't think you should pay as agreed?
  • 01-24-2014, 07:09 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    Quote:

    Quoting hondagirl
    View Post
    Hi Arron thank you so much for your reply, the thing is I know they don't have the original promissory note because I never sent them in. I was supposed to mail them after sending the fax, but I never got to it and they gave me the loan anyway plus the company that used to own the loan went bankrupt so my loan was resold and resold. So if they just have the faxed copy would that hold up in court?

    Of course it would.

    It's got your signature on it, right?

    And you took the money, right?

    You'd look pretty silly denying any of that in court.
  • 01-24-2014, 08:04 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    If you have the originals, the other side would likely get its copies admitted under the "best evidence rule". You are free to submit your originals as evidence should the matter go to trial.
  • 01-24-2014, 12:31 PM
    hondagirl
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    Quote:

    Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    If you took out the loan, most likely the documentation they have is sufficient. It's wishful thinking on your part to think that you're dodging this on some imagined technicality.

    Hi Flyingron, Thank you for your reply.
    I took out the loan with a company that no longer exists, the loan was sold off in the 2008-2009 financial crisis so many times that there is no longer any correct accounting (I have asked for this from the current holder and they have failed to produce) . At one point the loan was sold off by one company without letting me know (so I was still paying them), the only way I found out was the new company that had purchased the loan called me and demanded payment. I was able to get the money back and start paying the other company. I don't imagine this is a technicality, I have read that in order to sell off a loan there are specific guidelines that protect the consumer. I would just like to find out if a copy of a fax is enough to tie me to this new lender, I mean... what if there are other copies out there. Thank you for your time, I really appreciate it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Hi Mr. Knowitall,

    Thank you for your reply. I don't have the originals any more, I just remember tossing them out and never sending them in. Could you please explain to me what is the best evidence rule?

    Also do you think that copies of faxes of promissory notes will hold up in court ? I know that when you take out a loan now, after the financial crisis a wet signature is required as well as a notary.
  • 01-24-2014, 01:16 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    Quote:

    Quoting hondagirl
    View Post
    Could you please explain to me what is the best evidence rule?

    The best evidence rule applies when a party wants to admit as evidence the contents of a document at trial, but that the original document is not available. In this case, the party must provide an acceptable excuse for its absence. If the document itself is not available, and the court finds the excuse provided acceptable, then the party is allowed to use secondary evidence to prove the contents of the document and have it as admissible evidence. The best evidence rule only applies when a party seeks to prove the contents of the document sought to be admitted as evidence.

    Quote:

    Quoting hondagirl
    View Post
    Also do you think that copies of faxes of promissory notes will hold up in court ?

    Yes.

    There wouldn't be any doubt that you owe the money.

    But you would have to raise the ownership of the note as a defense and the creditor would likely have to provide documentation of the purchase of the note.

    My guess is, when push comes to shove, the creditor will have that documentation.

    Quote:

    Quoting hondagirl
    View Post
    I know that when you take out a loan now, after the financial crisis a wet signature is required as well as a notary.

    I imagine that's common practice but I'd be surprised if there are any statutes mandating it.
  • 01-24-2014, 01:31 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: What Documentation Will Prove Ownership of a Loan
    There's a world of difference between foreclosing on a mortgage and collecting money owed on a simple loan or promissory note. I can loan you money on a handshake, and sue you for it if you fail to repay.
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