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Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone

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  • 01-22-2014, 10:26 PM
    Archer1013
    Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
    About 12 months ago I got a Cell phone ticket and when it came in the mail, there was an option for traffic school. I foolishly assumed that because they had the option, I should take it to hide it from my insurance (now I know that cell phone tickets have zero points).

    Now I got a 90 in a 70 on the i-15 in Barstow.
    My goal is to keep the point off my record. But since I used my traffic school on a stupid zero point ticket I no longer have that option :wallbang::wallbang::wallbang:

    Should I:
    A. delay it as many times as I can then plead no guilty and hope the cops a no show (When I asked him how much the ticket would cost the cop said "we don't make any money from the tickets and it's up to the county" so why would he show up?"
    B. plead guilty and beg for traffic school (Are judges still able to grant traffic school even though I had already gone within 18 months?)
    C. hire an attorney?
  • 01-23-2014, 04:24 AM
    flyingron
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    A. delay it as many times as I can then plead no guilty and hope the cops a no show (When I asked him how much the ticket would cost the cop said "we don't make any money from the tickets and it's up to the county" so why would he show up?"

    Wishful thinking. The officer is paid to attend court, why wouldn't he? It's easy duty and the court dates are scheduled for his convenience.
    Quote:

    B. plead guilty and beg for traffic school (Are judges still able to grant traffic school even though I had already gone within 18 months?)
    You can try for traffic school and it may be issued at the discretion of the judge, but it will NOT avoid the points not this one.
    Quote:

    C. hire an attorney?
    If you wish.

    Was it exactly 90? If you got 91, you were precluded from traffic school anyhow.
  • 01-23-2014, 10:10 PM
    Archer1013
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    radar 92 but he said he was giving me a break and wrote 90.
    would an attorney help?
    Since traffic school won't avoid the point looks like begging for mercy is pointless.

    - - - Updated - - -

    btw how do I ask for the county seat after my ticket has already been written? It is mandatory that they give it to me if I ask during the time he was writing the citation but I didnt know about it so how do I do it now. Barstow is in san bernardino county and san bernardino court is 50 miles closer.
  • 01-24-2014, 04:09 PM
    L-1
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    A. delay it as many times as I can then plead no guilty and hope the cops a no show (When I asked him how much the ticket would cost the cop said "we don't make any money from the tickets and it's up to the county" so why would he show up?"

    If the officer told you his agency doesn't make money on the citation then that means a Chippie cited you. There are two things about Chippies and court.

    1. They get disciplined if the miss court

    2. If court is during their off duty hours they get paid a minimum of four hours overtime (six hours straight time) just for showing up.

    With this in mind you can postpone as much as the court will allow, but bet your bottom dollar (or the officer's overtime dollar) that he will be in court every time.
  • 01-24-2014, 06:24 PM
    That Guy
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    Here comes along post... I added to this at two different sittings so it maybe possible that I may have repeated a point or two...

    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    A. delay it as many times as I can then plead no guilty and hope the cops a no show (When I asked him how much the ticket would cost the cop said "we don't make any money from the tickets and it's up to the county" so why would he show up?"

    To add on this point, it is true that the CHP does not benefit from traffic citation revenue. The CHP as a state agency receives the bulk of its budgetary funds from vehicle registration fees. Generally, when you hear about increased enforcement of one particular violation (like using wireless telephones while driving, speed enforcement in certain areas and/or many of the DUI operations that he CHP conducts are funded by federal /state grants


    Quote:

    Quoting L-1
    View Post
    If the officer told you his agency doesn't make money on the citation then that means a Chippie cited you. There are two things about Chippies and court.

    1. They get disciplined if the miss court

    2. If court is during their off duty hours they get paid a minimum of four hours overtime (six hours straight time) just for showing up.

    With this in mind you can postpone as much as the court will allow, but bet your bottom dollar (or the officer's overtime dollar) that he will be in court every time.

    This is as direct an answer as can be that further supports the idea that a change of venue is likely to end up being more of a hindrance and a wasted effort, than it will be benefit.




    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    btw how do I ask for the county seat after my ticket has already been written?

    You would write up a formal motion, file it in court, serve a copy of it on the San Bernardino County District Attorney and another copy on the CHP. But you would be wasting your time. (And here is why you would be wasting your time)... Assuming the court is gong to entertain hearing your motion, you will have to make an appearance in Barstow to argue your motion, as an attempt to convince the Barstow judge that he should consider transferring your case. But if you are going to appear in Barstow to make such argument, you might be better off saving that trip and use it for the date you would otherwise be schedule to appear for trial in Barstow....

    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    It is mandatory that they give it to me if I ask during the time he was writing the citation but I didnt know about it so how do I do it now.

    It really does not matter when you found out about it... And I am going to be straight forward with you...Had you asked for it at the time of the stop the officer would have refused to accommodate you... And if you choose to ask for it in court, the court is not even obligated to schedule a hearing date for you to argue your motion. You maybe allowed to address the matter during your arraignment (if you choose to be arraigned in person) but like I said, if the reason you would like a change of venue is due to a hardship because you cannot afford to make the trip to Barstow, then the best advice anyone can give you is to try to handle as much of pretrial matters by mail leaving the actual trek to Barstow for the trial. If otherwise, your wanting a change of venue "just because", then you are making it clear that your only intent is to increase the possibility that the officer would not appear, then the court is not under any obligation to go through the cost or the huge hassle of a transfer and to make it more inconvenient for the People's witness and possibly more costly for the CHP just to improve your chances of a dismissal.

    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    and san bernardino court is 50 miles closer.

    Closer to "what"? The criteria for a change of venue request is that you reside or if your principal place of employment "is located, closer to the county seat than to the magistrate nearest or most accessible to the place where the offense is committed/citation is issued". (See CVC 40502)

    I honestly think you would be better off putting forth the energy trying to figure out your traffic school matter than you would be trying for a change of venue that you are not likely to get and even if you got it, there is no guarantee that the officer will not appear. A change of venue would not afford you the guarantee that traffic school offers in the way of mitigating your damages as afar as a premium increase. Speaking of which, this is somewhat related so let me cover this point....

    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    would an attorney help?

    Call around and ask how much an attorney will charge you for this case... Just in case the forum fool comes around to tell you he knows an attorney who charges $100 or another one who is really cheap, understand that his claims simply do not make any sense. More importantly, consider that the fine for this violation is $368, which you will have to post bail in that full amount to proceed with a trial. In addition, no attorney is going to represent you without a retainer.

    Keep in mind that no one can predict how much your premium will increase as a result of a conviction but let us as a hypothetical assume that it will increase by $100 per year for the tree year that this conviction will be on your record for. So mathematically, it breaks down to the case where you will have to find an attorney who charges $300 for him to benefit you in any way. In other words, you can either pay your insurer $100 per year for 3 years, or you can pay an attorney $300 up front, assume he will without a doubt get your case dismissed and in this hypothetical, you are breaking even.

    Consider other hypotheticals, one with an assumption that your insurer might increase your premium by $50 and another hypothetical where they might raise your premium by $150 per year for 3 years... IN these cases, your break even cost for an attorney is at $150, for the first one and $450 for the second one respectively.

    No matter how you look at it, I highly doubt you will find a "qualified" attorney who is capable of changing the outcome who would be willing to represent you for $150, $300 or $450 for that matter. But please, it is your option to call around and see what sort of potential outcomes they can offer you.

    Lastly on this one point, understand that most traffic infraction cases get prosecuted without the presence of a prosecuting attorney present in the courtroom, so when it comes to negotiating a "deal" for (as an example) a non moving violation in exchange for paying a higher monetary fine, there really is no one with the authority to make such an offer or the ability to accept an alternative resolution. But for the sake of argument, let us assume this may be possible by the attorney negotiating a deal with the officer, and the officer agrees to you paying a higher fine in lieu of a non moving violation of whatever... You original fine is $368... If in exchange for the lesser violation you are ordered to pay a higher fine.... And you've paid the attorney his retainer which is likely to be chunk of change... In total, this amount is going to be much higher than your original $368 fine plus any potential auto insurance premium increase which is likely to remain to be in effect for three years or so... and while I have never attempted this myself nor have I had an attorney attempt it on my behalf, some people have indicated that there

    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    Since traffic school won't avoid the point looks like begging for mercy is pointless.

    Mercy will not do you much good since the judge cannot change the procedures of how points are assigned or traffic school is qualified... What will help you though is an attempt to look into relevant laws, rules and qualifiers that apply here. You did things off the cuff the last time and ended up confused and possibly in a worse position than you would have been otherwise, don't maker the same mistake again...

    I disagree with you that you would not qualify for traffic school because you “used it on a zero point violation”. I can make it short and tell you that you may in fact still be able to get traffic school, even simply request it from the clerk rather than have to ask the judge for it.

    The long one is below this paragraph and though I think it is imperative that you read it (simply because if the court or the DMV are in error, the only way you can make your case, is if you in fact do understand why you should not be disqualified. So here it goes…

    Violation points are not matters that judges can decide. Those provisions are prescribed by law and are administered by the DMV. They are applied automatically as part of the process of reporting the conviction to the DMV (by the court). So not only can the judge not change them, the DMV cannot either. The other provision that can affect whether a violation is reported, and is recorded as a part of one's public record or whether it is concealed, is that the violation has to qualify for that sort of treatment other wise traffic school is a waste of time and money.

    The obvious example is that you can certainly pay for traffic school, take the course, submit proof of completion to the court but if you've done all that in an attempt to conceal a 2 point violation (speeding over 100 mph, for example) it isn't going to get concealed because 2 pointers do not qualify. Neither do zero point violations. They don't qualify for traffic school, and since there is no point to conceal, and while you can take traffic school, you wasted your money and you wasted your time.

    According to you, you:

    Quote:

    used [your] traffic school on a stupid zero point ticket
    You couldn't have used it for a zero point ticket., and you are correct, Cell phone tickets do not carry points. So you did waste your money, but as I said above, even if the court reported the conviction/guilty plea along with a traffic school completion, there is nothing to utilize that on so I doubt the system at the DMV is even aware of you taking traffic school.

    Quote:

    used [your] traffic school on a stupid zero point ticket I no longer have that option
    That would not make any sense...

    But wait... Before you get too excited, your best bet is to contact the DMV and get the answer from the horse's mouth. You maybe able to get your answer over the phone or you may have to go into your local DNV office location but all the contact info starts HERE.

    You will also have to check with the Barstow court just in case they have a local rule that is not shown on the document I linked below. I should say that FlyingRon is often on the money with his info although in this case, he maybe off by a hair (I‘ll explain why/how below)...

    The criteria that disqualifies a defendant from being automatically eligible for traffic school due to his/her speed comes from California Rule of Court 4.104

    Rule 4.104. Procedures and eligibility criteria for attending traffic violator school

    (a) Purpose


    The purpose of this rule is to establish uniform statewide procedures and criteria for eligibility to attend traffic violator school.

    (b) Authority of a court clerk to grant a request to attend traffic violator school

    (1)Eligible offenses

    Except as provided in (2), a court clerk is authorized to grant a request to attend traffic violator school when a defendant with a valid driver's license requests to attend an 8-hour traffic violator school under Vehicle Code sections 41501(a) and 42005 for any infraction under divisions 11 and 12 (rules of the road and equipment violations) of the Vehicle Code if the violation is reportable to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

    (2)Ineligible offenses

    A court clerk is not authorized to grant a request to attend traffic violator school for a misdemeanor or any of the following infractions:

    ...
    ...
    .....

    (G)A speeding violation in which the speed alleged is more than 25 miles over a speed limit as stated in Chapter 7 (commencing with section 22348) of Division 11 of the Vehicle Code;


    In cases where you get cited on a freeway where the speed limit is 65 mph, you would typically be disqualified from automatic eligibility for traffic school if the cited speed is "more than 25 mph above the limit" which then would be 26 mph + the 65 speed limit, you would have to get cited at 91 or higher to be disqualified. this is one reason why I say Ron may have missed it by a hair if he was assuming the cutoff is at 25 rather that it being at 26. Your case differs slightly, however. Your citation was issued in a 70 mph zone and to be disqualified by rule 4.104, you would have to have been cited for 70 + 26 = 96 mph to be ineligible. I suspect Ron’s answer was based on the assumption that the 90 mph disqualifies you, and in all honesty, every time this comes up I physically have to go read the actual rule to make sure. Otherwise I would easily make the same error.

    There is still one more caveat because in addition to the California Rules of court that apply to all county courts, each county superior court can establish its own local rules and those rules would only apply to courts in that particular county. So it is still possible that you may be disqualified from traffic school because the particular county where you were cited has a “local“ rule disqualifying you from traffic school if cited for a speeding citation where the determining factor is not how much in excess of the limit, but what was your speed. I have seen local court rules that do disqualify at 90 mph speed.

    While a quick search came up with the San Bernardino County Local Rules of Court Effective January 1, 2014 , I am not finding anything that would disqualify you for a 20 mph over the 70 mph limit. I still think it is critical that you contact the court to verify it through them.

    You'll have to do the following: (1) contact the court and verify that you are not made ineligible by some local rule that is related to your speed, and (2) contact the DMV to make sure that they did not actually count the traffic school completion against you.
  • 01-25-2014, 04:10 AM
    searcher99
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    Quote:

    Quoting Archer1013
    View Post
    would an attorney help?

    I would do an internet search on “Barstow speeding ticket attorney” and start by reading reviews. Then call several for free consultations and fee information. Balance fees against a rough estimate of 10% increased insurance cost for 3 years and ask them what outcome they are likely to achieve. Also you must consider your time cost and travel expense not incurred if an attorney acts on your behalf.
  • 01-25-2014, 07:52 AM
    BrianGC
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    Quote:

    Quoting searcher99
    View Post
    I would do an internet search on “Barstow speeding ticket attorney” and start by reading reviews. Then call several for free consultations and fee information. Balance fees against a rough estimate of 10% increased insurance cost for 3 years and ask them what outcome they are likely to achieve. Also you must consider your time cost and travel expense not incurred if an attorney acts on your behalf.

    I received a traffic ticket in Los Angeles which is still pending in court. I did what searcher recommends. I spoke to two traffic attorneys (actually one traffic attorney and the secretary of the other). I retained the one attorney after reading at least fifty of his reviews and reading his posted track record. They were both very impressive.

    My citation was $500 and my attorney fee was $250. His track record shows he is quite successful in getting citations dismissed, which is his goal. If he cannot get it dismissed he says it is easy for him to get the citation reduced to a non-moving violation and the fee reduced to $280. I also did not have to pay the fine amount during the court process nor do I have show up for any court hearings. So as I see it, a dismissal would be a big win. A reduction in violation and fine would also be a win because I would pay the same amount ($280 + $250) but I would not have to attend traffic school for it not to appear on my record. The only possible loss would be if he lost altogether. But that is my gamble.

    As you did here, continue your internet search. But speak to the professionals that do this for a living. Also call your insurance co. Ask if they raise your rates for your first ticket (if this is your first ticket). My experience says they do not, but that may be outdated information and/or may not apply to your company. But it's another easy call to make. Good Luck!
  • 01-27-2014, 07:48 AM
    That Guy
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    Can't say I didn't call it...

    Quote:

    Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Just in case the forum fool comes around to tell you he knows an attorney who charges $100 or another one who is really cheap, understand that his claims simply do not make any sense.

    Only thing I had assumed only one fool would post whereas the other came to his senses, I stand corrected:

    Quote:

    Quoting searcher99
    View Post
    I would do an internet search on “Barstow speeding ticket attorney” and start by reading reviews. Then call several for free consultations and fee information. Balance fees against a rough estimate of 10% increased insurance cost for 3 years and ask them what outcome they are likely to achieve. Also you must consider your time cost and travel expense not incurred if an attorney acts on your behalf.

    Even your "rough estimate of 10%" maybe way off for a number of reasons... You have no idea about the OPs record, his age, the area he lives in, the type of vehicle he drives or any of the metrics that contribute to making up his premium or any increases thereof. But as I posted, the OP is urged to call around to see what he can find. I hope he does.

    As for the epitome of foolishness:

    Quote:

    Quoting So Cal
    View Post
    I received a traffic ticket in Los Angeles which is still pending in court. I did what searcher recommends. I spoke to two traffic attorneys (actually one traffic attorney and the secretary of the other). I retained the one attorney after reading at least fifty of his reviews and reading his posted track record. They were both very impressive.

    My citation was $500 and my attorney fee was $250. His track record shows he is quite successful in getting citations dismissed, which is his goal. If he cannot get it dismissed he says it is easy for him to get the citation reduced to a non-moving violation and the fee reduced to $280. I also did not have to pay the fine amount during the court process nor do I have show up for any court hearings. So as I see it, a dismissal would be a big win. A reduction in violation and fine would also be a win because I would pay the same amount ($280 + $250) but I would not have to attend traffic school for it not to appear on my record. The only possible loss would be if he lost altogether. But that is my gamble.

    As you did here, continue your internet search. But speak to the professionals that do this for a living. Also call your insurance co. Ask if they raise your rates for your first ticket (if this is your first ticket). My experience says they do not, but that may be outdated information and/or may not apply to your company. But it's another easy call to make. Good Luck!

    I am still unclear on what you hope to accomplish by lying and misleading people. For starters, the OP's fine is $358, not $500... So right off the at, your example meansd nothing to him. Second, you continue to mention to use "his posted track record" as a way to influence people into buying your bull, only the joke is on you because he uses a term along the lines of "Win List".... What else would you expect a "Win List" to be, if not impressive! As for being impressed by his reviews, I can only find 20 +2 +10 (on different websites, but the two that caught my eye rated him as 1 & 2 stars (out of five) and both complained about how $1500 was too much for pay for a case they ended up losing.

    I find it interesting how you set that equation to add up to just slightly less that the total amount due for the fine amount plus traffic school for. And if it is "lost altogether" then you owe the $500, the (completely made up) $250 that you paid him and you may not be allowed to attend traffic school. So $750 plus who knows how much in insurance premium increases for the next 3 years!

    Also, here is where your story falls apart:
    If there is no way to get it dismissed means the officer is sure to get a conviction for a moving violation;
    A conviction for a moving violation meaning the penalty is the full fine amount ($500) plus one violation point;
    Why would the officer agree to a "a reduction in the violation" for about half the fine amount ($280) plus ZERO points?

    From a purely "legal" standpoint, the cop cannot make a deal... Only a prosecuting attorney can. A cop can only motion the court for a dismissal but only "in the interest of justice" and not as part of his independent opinion but as a written recommendation from the citing law enforcement agency. In tat recommendation a precise description of the grounds for such a request be included. And here you are suggesting that he "says it is easy for him to get the citation reduced to a non-moving violation and the fee reduced to $280", all in a court of law and with the approval of a judge?

    From CVC 40500

    (d) Once the arresting officer has prepared the written notice to appear, and has delivered a copy to the arrested person, the officer shall deliver the remaining original and all copies of the notice to appear as provided by Section 40506.
    Any person, including the arresting officer and any member of the officer’s department or agency, or any peace officer, who alters, conceals, modifies, nullifies, or destroys, or causes to be altered, concealed, modified, nullified, or destroyed, the face side of the remaining original or any copy of a citation that was retained by the officer, for any reason, before it is filed with the magistrate or with a person authorized by the magistrate or judge to receive a deposit of bail, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
    If, after an arrested person has signed and received a copy of a notice to appear, the arresting officer or other officer of the issuing agency, determines that, in the interest of justice, the citation or notice should be dismissed, the arresting agency may recommend, in writing, to the magistrate or judge that the case be dismissed. The recommendation shall cite the reasons for the recommendation and be filed with the court.
    If the magistrate or judge makes a finding that there are grounds for dismissal, the finding shall be entered on the record and the infraction or misdemeanor dismissed.
    Under no circumstances shall a personal relationship with any officer, public official, or law enforcement agency be grounds for dismissal.

    I think you are only fooling yourself... If in fact anyone reading your posts happens to believe a single word you are posting, I feel sorry for them.
  • 01-27-2014, 05:47 PM
    BrianGC
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    Quote:

    Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Even your "rough estimate of 10%" maybe way off…

    Since you like to correct people's grammar - There's a difference between 'maybe' and 'may be.'

    Quote:

    I am still unclear on what you hope to accomplish by lying and misleading people. For starters, the OP's fine is $358, not $500... So right off the at, your example meansd nothing to him.
    I showed my math that makes sense to me. He can do his own math with whatever attorney fee he is presented with. I did not say my math fits his equation.

    Quote:

    Second, you continue to mention to use "his posted track record" as a way to influence people into buying your bull, only the joke is on you because he uses a term along the lines of "Win List"…. What else would you expect a "Win List" to be, if not impressive! As for being impressed by his reviews, I can only find 20 +2 +10 (on different websites, but the two that caught my eye rated him as 1 & 2 stars (out of five) and both complained about how $1500 was too much for pay for a case they ended up losing.
    Who is "he". Are you claiming to have found the attorney I retained? If so, what are his initials? Because I can tell you, you are way off on all counts.

    Quote:

    I find it interesting how you set that equation to add up to just slightly less that the total amount due for the fine amount plus traffic school for. And if it is "lost altogether" then you owe the $500, the (completely made up) $250 that you paid him and you may not be allowed to attend traffic school. So $750 plus who knows how much in insurance premium increases for the next 3 years!
    That is right, except nothing was made up. I was up front about it being a gamble too. I could be out $550 + $250 plus a point on my record.

    Quote:

    If there is no way to get it dismissed means the officer is sure to get a conviction for a moving violation;
    Da!

    Quote:

    A conviction for a moving violation meaning the penalty is the full fine amount ($500) plus one violation point;
    You already said that. Besides, you do not know that to be true.

    Quote:

    Why would the officer agree to a "a reduction in the violation" for about half the fine amount ($280) plus ZERO points?
    I'm sure my attorney will not speak to the officer about reducing charges. It is done other ways. Besides, it is out of the officers hands now. I thought you would know that.

    Quote:

    And here you are suggesting that he "says it is easy for him to get the citation reduced to a non-moving violation and the fee reduced to $280", all in a court of law and with the approval of a judge?
    I doubt a judge will object when a prosecutor is willing to strike a deal. Since you obviously have no experience with this, I hardly consider you an authority on it. I would rather trust my attorney, since he does it on a daily basis.

    Quote:

    I think you are only fooling yourself… If in fact anyone reading your posts happens to believe a single word you are posting, I feel sorry for them.
    No, I'm taking a gamble after reasonable research.

    You didn't even know there were attorneys that specialize in traffic until two weeks ago. And when I come back here to report my outcome, if it is positive, you will undoubtedly call me a liar again. So what possible way can you learn from my experience if it is anything other than a loss for me?

    On a side note: There is something I've learned about people in general. When someone asks you if you are telling the truth, or if they accuse you of lying, it's because they are a liar themselves.
  • 01-27-2014, 06:15 PM
    L-1
    Re: Ticketed for Speeding, 90 MPH in a 70 Zone
    http://community.us.playstation.com/...v=mpbl-1&px=-1
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