Can I Take Custody Without Going Back to Court Based on a Child's Wish

My question involves juvenile law in the State of: New Hampshire, Georgia

Hello All!
This is my first post here and I really hope someone could guide me in the right direction as to what to do here.

I have a 15 year old Daughter who lives with her mother and aunt in Georgia, She was taken from me approx. 4 years ago and her mother never told me they where going. I also have another Daughter who when she turned 18 moved back to NH with me. OK, so the issue is my 15 year old wants to come back to NH and live with me also, but her mother says she will get me on kidnapping charges if I bring her back to NH. Oh and by the way I am not divorced or legally separated either. From what my Daughters tell me, the living conditions are horrible at best, The aunt runs an animal shelter where they live, They live in a trailer home with approx. 20-30 cats, dogs,horses, ect....
My 15 year old was able to visit me last week for the first time in 3-4 years and she tells me she is being made fun of at school because she smells like cat urine. She says the house smells and not very clean. The aunt and mother are always yelling at her for one thing or another, But she is a good kid and dosnt get into trouble. She says she gets verbally abused for not completing tasks around the shelter, And sometimes for no reason at all. I believe her knowing her mother and aunt. She has had enough and no longer wants to be there. I need to bring her Back! Does she have the right to decide where she wants to live? what is the best way to do this? And yes I do pay her mother money even though we are not divorced. I have no money for lawyers and such, but I cannot sit idle on this, please help!

Thanks
Paul

is there currently a custody order?

Why do I see childrens services and a real animal rescue getting involved here?

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Quoting Paul Arsenault

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Oh and by the way I am not divorced or legally separated either.

Thanks
Paul

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Paul, are you still married to her mother? No custody order at all? You were married to the mother when the child was born? Why don't you think you can keep your daughter? The legal situation in this specific case isn't about the daughters wish, while it's nice, at 15yrs old, it doesn't hold as much weight as you still being married.

Yes I am still married and there is no custody order and was married when she was born

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Quoting FatherKnowsBest

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Paul, are you still married to her mother? No custody order at all? You were married to the mother when the child was born? Why don't you think you can keep your daughter? The legal situation in this specific case isn't about the daughters wish, while it's nice, at 15yrs old, it doesn't hold as much weight as you still being married.

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If you are still married with no order in place, that means either of you can take the child wherever you want. You can go get your daughter and bring her back with you, and mom could come take her back. If you take her and mom decides she wants to take legal action, she can petition the court for custody with an order that the child be returned to her pending the outcome of the trial. Jurisdiction for this and further custody matters would then be where the mother lives. If mom does nothing about it, and the child lives with you long enough to establish residency where you live (generally six months - look it up for your state), then you can file your own petition there and your area would have jurisdiction over the matter.

You can get into a bit of a game of tug-o-war if you're not careful. Since I don't know the mother, and I don't know how she would react (really no one knows for sure what anyone will do), I couldn't tell you what your strategy should be.

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Quoting Paul Arsenault

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My question involves juvenile law in the State of: New Hampshire, Georgia

Hello All!
This is my first post here and I really hope someone could guide me in the right direction as to what to do here.

I have a 15 year old Daughter who lives with her mother and aunt in Georgia, She was taken from me approx. 4 years ago and her mother never told me they where going. I also have another Daughter who when she turned 18 moved back to NH with me. OK, so the issue is my 15 year old wants to come back to NH and live with me also, but her mother says she will get me on kidnapping charges if I bring her back to NH. Oh and by the way I am not divorced or legally separated either. From what my Daughters tell me, the living conditions are horrible at best, The aunt runs an animal shelter where they live, They live in a trailer home with approx. 20-30 cats, dogs,horses, ect....
My 15 year old was able to visit me last week for the first time in 3-4 years and she tells me she is being made fun of at school because she smells like cat urine. She says the house smells and not very clean. The aunt and mother are always yelling at her for one thing or another, But she is a good kid and dosnt get into trouble. She says she gets verbally abused for not completing tasks around the shelter, And sometimes for no reason at all. I believe her knowing her mother and aunt. She has had enough and no longer wants to be there. I need to bring her Back! Does she have the right to decide where she wants to live? what is the best way to do this? And yes I do pay her mother money even though we are not divorced. I have no money for lawyers and such, but I cannot sit idle on this, please help!

Thanks
Paul

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Paul, let me ask you a couple of questions.

1. Why do you think your 15 year old suddenly wants to live with your, versus Mom, after not seeing you for 3 years?

2. Have child services and animal control (nice pick up, disagreeable) been involved yet?

3. What led up to Mom allowing her to visit after 3 years of nothing?

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5. Why has taken 3 years for you to act?

Reading is fundamental....and I didn't.

I decided to contact Division for Children, Youth & Families here in NH to see if they can also help. Some of the issues not mentioned about her mother, she is a prescription junkie, And while I was working she slept while the children fended for themselves, very lazy. I lost my house and auto because of her. I now have a very stable home with children living here. I have been in contact with my daughter, her mother wants nothing to do with me, thats fine with me. I wanted my daughter to decide where she wanted to be, and not push her and try and be bias.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Paul, let me ask you a couple of questions.

1. Why do you think your 15 year old suddenly wants to live with your, versus Mom, after not seeing you for 3 years?

2. Have child services and animal control (nice pick up, disagreeable) been involved yet?

3. What led up to Mom allowing her to visit after 3 years of nothing?

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5. Why has taken 3 years for you to act?

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I was thinking some of the same questions, particularly #5.

I'd be hesitant to call child services unless I was sure there was a real issue that they would consider dangerous to the child (there may be, if everything the child claims is true). If there's not a real issue, it's a bit on the harassing side to mom.

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Quoting Paul Arsenault

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I decided to contact Division for Children, Youth & Families here in NH to see if they can also help. Some of the issues not mentioned about her mother, she is a prescription junkie, And while I was working she slept while the children fended for themselves, very lazy. I lost my house and auto because of her. I now have a very stable home with children living here. Anyways thanks for the input.

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Can you prove her prescription drug abuse? And if it was that bad, why did you leave them with her?

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Quoting free9man

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Ahem, cough, cough...

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Your point? He can't even put together a simple sentence with proper grammar and punctuation.

Not that I disagree with his entire point of view, but he seems a bit hot-headed at times.

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Quoting FatherWhoWon

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Your point? He can't even put together a simple sentence with proper grammar and punctuation.

Not that I disagree with his entire point of view, but he seems a bit hot-headed at times.

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Sorry, got my fathers mixed up.

She left without telling me where they where going, I came home one day, and POOF!! one bag of clothes on the front porch. I supose i cant prove drug abuse, my oldest daughter would probably contest to it if this matters.

Why do you think your 15 year old suddenly wants to live with your, versus Mom, after not seeing you for 3 years?
She is fed up with the verbal abuse and emotional. Her schooling is being affected by it.

Have child services and animal control (nice pick up, disagreeable) been involved yet?
NO

What led up to Mom allowing her to visit after 3 years of nothing?
She told her mother she was going to visit her older sister and not me.

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Quoting Paul Arsenault

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She left without telling me where they where going, I came home one day, and POOF!! one bag of clothes on the front porch. I supose i cant prove drug abuse, my oldest daughter would probably contest to it if this matters.

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This is all you really need to know paul

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Quoting FatherWhoWon

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If you are still married with no order in place, that means either of you can take the child wherever you want. You can go get your daughter and bring her back with you, and mom could come take her back. If you take her and mom decides she wants to take legal action, she can petition the court for custody with an order that the child be returned to her pending the outcome of the trial. Jurisdiction for this and further custody matters would then be where the mother lives. If mom does nothing about it, and the child lives with you long enough to establish residency where you live (generally six months - look it up for your state), then you can file your own petition there and your area would have jurisdiction over the matter.

You can get into a bit of a game of tug-o-war if you're not careful. Since I don't know the mother, and I don't know how she would react (really no one knows for sure what anyone will do), I couldn't tell you what your strategy should be.

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She's a lazy prescription junkie who is apparently keeping your daughter safe and sound for at least 3 years while you've done nothing to see your daughter?

I'm not sure exactly how that...hang on a minute.

You are in another relationship, yes?

Who are the other children involved?

One more for the road: If your daughter decides in three weeks that you suck and your house sucks and NH sucks most of all - you'll let her go right back to Mom, yes?

Believe it or not, I am going somewhere specific and it's probably to your benefit, Dad.

Ok, her aunt has been taking care of her for the last 3 years with her mother living there, please understand that I just wanted what was best for my daughter at that time, I was gone for a week at a time for work, she never wanted to be there to begin with, but at the time i thought it best, I was wrong!
Yes in a relationship, a young boy and girl came with her. Not my children. My daughter is very smart and knows what she wants, she will NOT want to go back, I am sure of this.

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Quoting FatherKnowsBest

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This is all you really need to know paul

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"All you need to know" is almost never contained in only a single paragraph. :)

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Quoting FatherWhoWon

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"All you need to know" is almost never contained in only a single paragraph. :)

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I agree, still all good info.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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She's a lazy prescription junkie who is apparently keeping your daughter safe and sound for at least 3 years while you've done nothing to see your daughter?

I'm not sure exactly how that...hang on a minute.

You are in another relationship, yes?

Who are the other children involved?

One more for the road: If your daughter decides in three weeks that you suck and your house sucks and NH sucks most of all - you'll let her go right back to Mom, yes?

Believe it or not, I am going somewhere specific and it's probably to your benefit, Dad.

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I think if you read the posts that I had mentioned I had no Idea they where going, it took some time, months for me to find them.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Paul, let me ask you a couple of questions.

1. Why do you think your 15 year old suddenly wants to live with your, versus Mom, after not seeing you for 3 years?

2. Have child services and animal control (nice pick up, disagreeable) been involved yet?

3. What led up to Mom allowing her to visit after 3 years of nothing?

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5. Why has taken 3 years for you to act?

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Response to 5
Please understand that I just wanted what was best for my daughter at that time, I was gone for a week at a time for work, she never wanted to be there to begin with, but at the time i thought it best, I was wrong! now this is all changed and have a happy home.

3 yrs of no action and it still continues now. Paul, why aren't you on your way, driving right now, to go pick up your child?

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Quoting Paul Arsenault

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Ok, her aunt has been taking care of her for the last 3 years with her mother living there, please understand that I just wanted what was best for my daughter at that time, I was gone for a week at a time for work, she never wanted to be there to begin with, but at the time i thought it best, I was wrong!
Yes in a relationship, a young boy and girl came with her. Not my children. My daughter is very smart and knows what she wants, she will NOT want to go back, I am sure of this.

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I'd rather hoped that wouldn't be the case (for your sake).

But here's what we have. A 'Disney Dad', with other kids to play with/tease/control and a mother-figure who is likely on her best behavior, all of which tends to get your average 15 year old girl all sorts of antsy and excited and OMGZ they don't make me do CHORES!.

See where I'm coming from?

In her eyes, she's hoping to high heaven that she'll get 3 years of idyllic teen-ship.


Dad, I really do hope you take this to heart - because it's truly not intended to hurt you - but she's actually not that smart to know what she wants, or at least make her own decisions about it.

You have three years of "Dadness" to make up for and you really don't know each other too well at this point. Once school, babysitting and chores come back into the equation, after not being able to see all of her friends any more, after having to switch schools and then deal with all the trauma that goes along with that as well as being at - pregnancy notwithstanding - the most hormonal she'll ever feel in her life...I'm sorry, but this is a recipe for disaster.

And worse? She didn't even TELL Mom she was going to see you. She lied.

Do you really think she's mature enough to make that decision herself?

You're being played, Dad.

Regarding the state of the house at Moms. If she was actually telling the truth about it, DFCS (or whatever they're called in Georgia) would have stepped in LONG before now.

You can't hide the smell of cat urine in your clothes for too long and most of the school employees are what's known as "mandated reporters". In other words, if they suspect abuse or neglect, they have a legal duty to inform child services.

Okay. Hit me with it. Because I'm likely going to get torn to shreds for this post.

Ok Here it goes......................

No I am not on my way to pick her up......yet, I have been in contact with her, all these post seem to me like I have not for 3 years, we chat online, we skype, we text and chat on the phone, all of which her mothers knows nothing about because she is fearful she will be yelled at. She had to lie, or her mother would of never put her on the plane, I know this to be a fact, I lived with her for 25 years, I think she is smart enough to decide where she wants to be yes. She never wanted to leave to begin with. Dont think I am being played, she has an older sister who was there for 2 years and left at 18 years old for the same reasons. I have smelled first hand of the cat urine thing when she got here I had to wash all her clothes and bags, Not going to hit you with anything, its all good input to me.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Okay. Hit me with it. Because I'm likely going to get torn to shreds for this post.

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There are too many crappy dad's out there Dogmatique, too many scumbags that have run away from the responsibility to be a parent, guys that go around neglecting their children and doing nothing but hurting them. Guys that i wouldn't spit on if they were on fire, who if i were given the power too, wouldn't exist anymore, too many to count. I don't believe we are doing the right thing if we are discouraging those fathers who DO want to do the right thing by their children, those fathers who DO want to be a part of their childrens lives, who want to raise their kids.

While i agree with what you said, in theory, I believe that this is a chance worth taking for him. Yes, she MAY end up doing exactly as you said, in that case, she'll end up back at moms after just a couple months. BUT, those couple months will be a chance for dad to 'know' his daughter, a chance for him to be a part of her life. This is where i get sappy.....When she looks back in 50 years, after dad has passed on, what she will remember isn't what chores he gave her, but the quality time she got with her father because he stepped up and did the 'fatherly' thing.

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Quoting FatherKnowsBest

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3 yrs of no action and it still continues now. Paul, why aren't you on your way, driving right now, to go pick up your child?

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I really want to but dont think it would be a good idea. Not yet till I can figure this mess out.

And thank you FatherKnowsBest You understand where I am coming from.

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Quoting FatherKnowsBest

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There are too many crappy dad's out there Dogmatique, too many scumbags that have run away from the responsibility to be a parent, guys that go around neglecting their children and doing nothing but hurting them. Guys that i wouldn't spit on if they were on fire, who if i were given the power too, wouldn't exist anymore, too many to count. I don't believe we are doing the right thing if we are discouraging those fathers who DO want to do the right thing by their children, those fathers who DO want to be a part of their childrens lives, who want to raise their kids.

While i agree with what you said, in theory, I believe that this is a chance worth taking for him. Yes, she MAY end up doing exactly as you said, in that case, she'll end up back at moms after just a couple months. BUT, those couple months will be a chance for dad to 'know' his daughter, a chance for him to be a part of her life. This is where i get sappy.....When she looks back in 50 years, after dad has passed on, what she will remember isn't what chores he gave her, but the quality time she got with her father because he stepped up and did the 'fatherly' thing.

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When custody is decided on what's best for the parent, we have a problem.

That aside, a question for Dad. Are you paying child support?

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Quoting Dogmatique

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When custody is decided on what's best for the parent, we have a problem.

That aside, a question for Dad. Are you paying child support?

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Yes faithfully send a check every week, which is NOT court ordered.
At one point i was sending almost my whole paycheck every week to her, I was told I was crazy!
Just wanted to be sure my girls where taken care of.
I even give her my tax money.

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Quoting FatherKnowsBest

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There are too many crappy dad's out there Dogmatique, too many scumbags that have run away from the responsibility to be a parent, guys that go around neglecting their children and doing nothing but hurting them. Guys that i wouldn't spit on if they were on fire, who if i were given the power too, wouldn't exist anymore, too many to count. I don't believe we are doing the right thing if we are discouraging those fathers who DO want to do the right thing by their children, those fathers who DO want to be a part of their childrens lives, who want to raise their kids.

While i agree with what you said, in theory, I believe that this is a chance worth taking for him. Yes, she MAY end up doing exactly as you said, in that case, she'll end up back at moms after just a couple months. BUT, those couple months will be a chance for dad to 'know' his daughter, a chance for him to be a part of her life. This is where i get sappy.....When she looks back in 50 years, after dad has passed on, what she will remember isn't what chores he gave her, but the quality time she got with her father because he stepped up and did the 'fatherly' thing.

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You really tend to "romanticize" the absent father. I see it over and over and over again in your posts. Unfortunately, in doing so you also tend to lead some fathers down the garden path...which potentially can do them serious damage...and the children as a result.

You are not doing this father any favors by your responses...in fact, you are doing the opposite.

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Quoting llworking

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You really tend to "romanticize" the absent father. I see it over and over and over again in your posts. Unfortunately, in doing so you also tend to lead some fathers down the garden path...which potentially can do them serious damage...and the children as a result.

You are not doing this father any favors by your responses...in fact, you are doing the opposite.

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I take everything with a grain of salt, I try and decipher from all the post, which direction I should head in.
I knew if I posted here I would get different responses, I do remain hopeful of a bad situation, but we will see.

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Quoting llworking

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You really tend to "romanticize" the absent father. I see it over and over and over again in your posts. Unfortunately, in doing so you also tend to lead some fathers down the garden path...which potentially can do them serious damage...and the children as a result.

You are not doing this father any favors by your responses...in fact, you are doing the opposite.

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If i can convince one absent father, a GOOD father on the fence(this guy does sound like a caring father), to be a part of their childs life. If i can show them how important it is for a child to have them in their life, then my 'romanticizing' is all worth it.

And if your leading them down the garden path of impossibilities that end in their losing time with their child? What will that be worth?

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Quoting FatherKnowsBest

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If i can convince one absent father, a GOOD father on the fence(this guy does sound like a caring father), to be a part of their childs life. If i can show them how important it is for a child to have them in their life, then my 'romanticizing' is all worth it.

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There's no reason why Dad can't be an active, essential part of his child's life. I would suspect that a father working in Dubai, or is deployed, would be offended at the suggestion that "not living with Dad = bad Dad".

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Quoting Dogmatique

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There's no reason why Dad can't be an active, essential part of his child's life. I would suspect that a father working in Dubai, or is deployed, would be offended at the suggestion that "not living with Dad = bad Dad".

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It's a different world from when you or even I were children Dogmatique. When my parents were children a fathers responsibility as a father stopped at being the primary earner, he'd spend 50-60 hrs at work and come home so exhausted that he wasn't able to actually Parent the children. Even when i was young, in the 80's and 90's, that was still the norm, although things WERE changing for the better, a father was learning to be a father. Now with the norm being 2 income families, it takes much more then just a paycheck to be a father, a father is a healer, a coach, a professor, a story teller, a ghostbuster, even a chef, the roles that in your youth (the 50's or 60's, my guess) used to be delegated 100% to mom are now both parents right.

So while i may offend some with my belief that you need to be a 'renaissance man' to be a father these days, that doesn't make it untrue. Although, it is a slow process, fathers ARE learning this, they are realizing that their #1 priority is to their children anything else, doesn't do justice to the kids and I hope, some day soon father being fathers becomes the 'norm' instead of the fringe.

Your guess with regards to when Doggie was growing up is a couple of decades off the mark. Now, me, I was born in the mid 50's. My dad worked 80 hour weeks and was constantly on call, but I still have plenty of memories of him taking us to the park, or for rides out to the natural caverns near us to look for animals in the woods, or just playing games with us.

My husband's kids have countless memories of him coaching their Little League teams, taking them to sports events, spending all the time possible with them.

So please don't assume what other peoples experiences have been, or what parents who don't find it necessary to post on legal boards may be doing.

You really have no idea how offensive you're being, do you?

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If i can show them how important it is for a child to have them in their life, then my 'romanticizing' is all worth it.

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NO. That is NOT what we do here. Knock off with the theatrics and stick with useful information, or shut up and leave. Or be made to leave.

Your agenda gets in the way of helping people.

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Quoting LawResearcherMissy

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Your agenda gets in the way of helping people.

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Sorry, i thought that was helpful.

Me being the oldest daughter, I saw how bad it got before we were moved to GA over 3 years ago, I basically raised my sister when my dad wasn't home. My mother would sleep all day and all night waking up periodically to take more meds. Now don't get me wrong I absolutely love my mother but there were more options to do instead of move straight to GA. As my mother said "GA was the last resort" When we got to GA my aunt used to yell at me until I went off on her. I couldn't stand it anymore a month later I asked my dad to get me a one way ticket. I got up here and I stayed. A bout a month of me being up here my mom stopped talking to me. Wouldn't let my sister talk to me. And she finally started talking to me again a year and a half later. Me and my boyfriend went down to visit my sister in OCT of 2013. I noticed how badly the living conditions have gotten, my mom told me not to tell my dad because she was afraid of losing my sister. Obviously my mom cares more about my sister then me. But my dad didn't know where we moved to, seeing as my mom never said a word to my dad. Them not being legally separated or divorced, allowed my mom to just leave. But Neither me or my sister wanted to leave NH. We had to sneak to talk to our dad while we were in GA. He felt before knowing how the living situation is, that he would rather us kids choose where to be. My sister came up for a visit just last week and told my father how bad things have really gotten. She is sick and tired of hearing our own blood, (Aunt and Mother) put me and my father down. She can't stand being yelled at.

The issue with why its taken so long for my dad to act was that we didn't tell our father how bad everything really was, and for all I know my father felt as though we should choose where to be. But knowing now what he does, he wants to help us in every way. My father, while me, my sister and mother still lived in the house our parents had together, sent almost his whole pay check to us kids to make sure we had a house, food and all the necessities and more. There was more then enough money for a comfortable life. My mother stopped paying the bills and lied to us kids. I am now 20 years old an feel as though our situation is quite a bit different then some out there. Its hard to understand exactly what may be going on in our lives.

And all of a sudden, the sister turns up?

How convenient.

Another adult to claim an unsuitable living situation and does nothing about it?

How baffling.

I hide nothing from my girls they too have an opinion. I told them I was doing this and to read it and chime in if they wanted to, so this is why she did. Not sure why this is baffling, Not sure why you seem to think we are sitting idle, we have been trying to figure out what to do, this is why we are here. I just want to try and give everyone the big picture and try and find some guidance.

I might have missed it. But in case I didn't, have you actually talked to Mom about it?

(Mom does know..right?)

No have not talked to her, she wont talk to me, email mabe, thats it. If i do try and talk to her about this she might run and/or take it out on my youngest.

Forget your intentions.

Forget what the child wants.

This is how - based purely on your posts here - this will likely play out.

Mom is so furious with all three of you that she files for custody faster than you can blink, and requests that you have only supervised visitation, in Mom's home state.

Why? Because on paper, in her eyes, none of you can be trusted. Remember, family court doesn't work like criminal court -Mom doesn't have to prove that anything criminal has occurred. All she has to do is tell the truth - she sent your child to be with your other daughter and between the three of you y'all finagled a way for your daughter NOT to be where she's supposed to be, with absolutely no respect or regard for Mom's rules.

You haven't bothered with visitation in over 3 years and suddenly all you want to do is keep your daughter from the only parent who - in the eyes of the court - has given a hoot about her welfare all this time. Do you not understand that this carries massive significance? Do you not grasp how this can look in court?

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Seriously, you better get that child home when she's meant to be home.

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Quoting Paul Arsenault

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I hide nothing from my girls they too have an opinion. I told them I was doing this and to read it and chime in if they wanted to, so this is why she did. Not sure why this is baffling, Not sure why you seem to think we are sitting idle, we have been trying to figure out what to do, this is why we are here. I just want to try and give everyone the big picture and try and find some guidance.

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I would like to know.... if the OP has been sending a check every week since mom and the child have been gone, where he was sending the checks when he claims he didn't know where they were (even though he sent a check every week and sometimes sent his WHOLE check)?

How, if he's living on the brink of poverty to support this child did he have the time, energy and money to date a woman with 2 children and how he's paying those bills?

How large a house he has so that he can accommodate yet another child?

How he managed just to wash out cat urine and bags? I'm not a cat owner, nor have I ever, but it's my understanding that you can't just "wash" out cat urine?

If her clothes were THAT bad that you had to immediately go wash her things, why not send her home with new things as opposed to the cat urine soaked clothing she appeared with (that you saw)?

Every court in the nation makes available a method for people who are experiencing financial difficulty to (1) file their own documents at low or no charge and (2) get access to free or cheap legal assistance, why in 3 years have you not availed yourself of those services? You seemed to have time to date.

How is it that your 20 year old daughter found your post on this website in order for her to respond? Do you make it a habit to get your children involved in these custody matters? However, since she seems to want to get involved, and seeing as if mom will allow the younger daughter to visit the older daughter, why didn't you use this as a way to get your daughter back into your custody before now?

In other words... your priorities are screwed up, dad.