Carelessly Burning a Child With a Cigarette

My question involves child abuse or neglect in the State of: New York, County of Fulton.

I the biological father have shared physical custody and joint legal custody of my 3 year daughter.

Here is the story, my daughter was fine when I dropped her off to her mothers Sunday 3pm. Wednesday at 11:30am (Christmas day) the mother dropped my daughter off back to my house not even 3 days later, and the mother tells me my daughter has a cold soar (one spot is bad on her lip, and another spot down towards her chin totally off the lip) which I said ok and we went inside and started opening presents. Then within 30 minutes I ask my daughter what happened to her lip, and she says "frankie burned me with his cigarette" and that is the mother boyfriend frankie. I asked my daughter if she picked up the cigarette and she says no he burned me, hes bad. I know she was burned so I take her into the ER and they could not tell if it was a burn or cold soar, but to put ointment on it and follow up with her doctor which im doing, but my daughter tells the RN when she took her aside same thing, Frankie burned me with his cigarette. The ER made a report to child protective hotline at that time who accepted it they told me and to expect to hear from them. So no one showed up from CPS for over 24 hours so I went into the sheriff dept and filed a report and they got ahold of cps and gave me the name of the lady who had my case, my daughter also told the sheriff deputy she was burned with the cigarette, the sheriff deputy told me they should be at my house after 2pm or I should just stop over there so I did. I talked to the woman from CPS who has the case, and she talked to my daughter, and my daughter told her the same thing frankie burned her with his cigarette. Long story short they are not going to do anything yet but I have a follow up doctor appointment tomorrow and I signed a release to release information to CPS. I again today just before asked the mother what happened, and she says its a cold soar she just wants to lie so it seems to me like its more than just some accident which was my worst fear. The boyfriend that burned my daughter lives at the mothers house with my daughter on the mothers half of the time.

My question now is what do I do. Im pretty sure im going to keep my daughter and not give her back on Sunday to her mother like normal and risk being violated. The CPS put it to me like this, do I want to risk violation or something happening to my daughter if I gave her back so i decided to keep her. My question now is what do I do, do I wait to be violated and deal with that, or file something in family court myself like order of protection and custody? Please any advice on what someone in my situation would be best to do I would appreciated, I do not need to be told what to do just what is best at this point for me and my daughter. I would like to take full custody if possible after this, but should I wait to see if it is confirmed by CPS or if the Sheriff dept does anything first? I cant get an attorney its not an option right now, but I can get a public defender after I file a petition and appear but right now im on my own and I would appreciate if someone could help me out on this.

Thanks

Dad, while I totally sympathize with how upsetting this is, you honestly don't know for sure if its a burn or a cold sore (because the hospital couldn't say either way with certainty) and if it was a burn, you cannot be certain that it wasn't an accident. CPS won't be able to determine that either. One isolated instance like that is not going to get you full custody, nor is it likely to get the child yanked by CPS.

I once accidentally burned my child with a cigarette because she jumped on me at the wrong moment. I told her myself that it was all my fault and that I was "bad" because I felt so horrible about it. Frankie could have very well told your child that as well. Maybe mom is playing avoidance games with you, but if you tend to have a contentious co-parenting relationship, that might explain that.

I would take a pretty sadistic person to deliberately burn a child like that...have you actually seen any kind of sign that Frankie is that kind of person?

I don't know too much about him he is a little strange though, I can understand you they cannot understand if it was a burn or a cold sore for sure. But I can tell by what my child says, he burned her whether it was accident or not, im 100% sure he did myself, he burned I can tell my child wouldn't just make this up. I guess it just takes a parent child relationship to tell this for sure. The disturbing part about this whole thing is I asked did you pick up the cigarette and over and over she says no, he burned me. The mother just wants to lie to me saying its a cold sore, but she has not talked to cps or anyone else yet as far as I know. I have doctors appointment at her regulars doctors tomorrow, its a fill in doctor but its her regular doctors office anyway im hoping they can tell better than the ER or maybe recommend someone that can tell. I guess that the mother wants to lie is the problem here right now, if she came to me told me my daughter got burned I would have taken a much different route on this for sure.

One of these marks is much lower than the lip, its at least more towards the chin, and slightly to the side towards the cheek area. These are nasty bloody scabs now.

You know what the true upsetting part of this is, she told the ER Nurse, Sheriff, and CPS all the same thing, he burned her. I really hope something comes of this even if it don't change custody because it is going to wreck the decent friendship me and the mother had for a while now.

Cold sores are distinctly different from burns, and if there's any question as to which is which, a simple swab will confirm the presence of the virus. If it's not present, it's not a cold sore.

I'm very curious as to why the ER didn't do this given that it's such a ridiculously easy (and inexpensive, let's be honest) test to perform.

Thanks for your response, no they did not offer that test, and also I took her into the doctors office yesterday for the follow upand he said he could not tell, and he would refer to the ER report because they could get a better idea of what it was 2 days earlier than him. I'm going try to get her to a dermatologist on Monday, the doctor referred one but said it would be weeks until they could see her. If I can't get a dermatologist im going to get a second opinion at least at this point.

My daughter did tell that doctor also Frankie burned her with his cigarette, he told me its likely to come back unfounded but as a father advice it probably would be smart to hold the child until the CPS report is cleared up. I guess thats what im going to do next just hold the child and risk be violated, the mother has many times told me she wasnt burned by now there is no chance she will cooperate, and as far as she told me cps has not even been out there yet as of today, and the hotline call to them was on Wednesday afternoon.

My daughter has told the ER, Sheriff Deputy, 2 CPS Workers, and a doctor all that Frankie burned her, when is someone going to take what my daughter says serious I wonder I really lost allot of faith I had in the way the system works, that is the whole reason I am doing this is the first place because of what she says he did to her, so that means if doctor cant back it up people can do whatever they want to a child? sorry to rant but im just frustrated right now, I have my daughter and shes safe, but looks like nothing will be done.

Sorry, don't know what to tell you.

I DO know though that it's incredibly unlikely that a doctor AND the ER can't tell the difference between a cold sore and a burn. Seriously - it just doesn't make sense.

And if by some chance they genuinely can't tell, it takes no effort to swab the area and have it tested for the presence of HSV.

You have already had two doctors that told you that they couldn't tell. Its highly unlikely that a third doctor is going to tell you anything different. Unfortunately, the word of a three year old cannot be taken legally without other credible evidence. Withholding the child may come back to seriously bite you in the butt.

Seriously. When you're talking about HSV, it's a simple "yes it is" or "no it isn't" after the swab has been tested. And that's IF the nurse or physician can't tell by physical presentation (and they generally can).

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Seriously. When you're talking about HSV, it's a simple "yes it is" or "no it isn't" after the swab has been tested. And that's IF the nurse or physician can't tell by physical presentation (and they generally can).

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What if its too far healed for the swab to work? He did say that it was totally scabbed over. Would that make a difference. I honestly don't understand why two different doctors have told him that they cannot tell, if there is such a simple test available. Or perhaps maybe they are saying that they cannot confirm that it was a burn?

Something just occurred to me.

Dad, did you actually tell the caregivers that you thought it was a burn, versus a cold sore? Or did they simply act on your information (indicating that it's a burn)?

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This is such an easy, non-invasive test to perform. If it's not conclusive or comes up negative, the physician can either treat based on the probable presence, or do a viral culture to confirm.

It just isn't logical for things to go the way OP described them.

I told them I didn't know if it was a burn but I thought it was based on what my daughter told me, I did tell them the mother told me it was a cold sore.

Here is an update, I even took my daughter into Planned Parenthood to try to get the swab or even blood test, they do have the test, but wouldnt take her because of her age I even explained the situation and the nurse there told me my doctor should be able to do the test. So I called my doctor and other doctors even, and some have never heard of the test (sad), ones that did say they dont do it on children as young as my daughter. I had one nurse tell me the reason they dont do it on children as young as my daughter is because its very rare a child that young gets cold sores. So I never got the test done, but I look at the ER report and they did put "burn" on there, and the called it a "wound" which as far as I know they wouldnt call a cold sore a wound from the definition. I think that once my daughter talked to the nurse at the ER and told her frankie burned her, they changed their tune on not knowing what it was. I didn't even look at the report until earlier this week, I was just going by what they told me in person they could not tell but that was before they talked to my daughter. Also on the ER report it says follow up with authorities which I didnt see at first, but I did follow up with authorities the next day which was the day after Christmas.

The nurse at the hospital is the one who called CPS.

Here is an even more unpredictable turn, I have nor heard from the mother in 5 days I kept my daughter except one text Monday asking how she was. I got no papers served or mailed to me, and I check the file number on the online webfamily docket system, and there is nothing filed on our case so she hasnt done anything yet I was in family court picking up a petition and clerk asked my name and mothers name and she said she hasn't heard from her either a few days ago. Im going to file for temporary custody at this point.

Good luck to you.

This is even more confusing. I know I keep harping on about it, but your retelling just makes no tense at all.

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Oral herpes is usually caused by HSV-1. The first infection usually occurs between 6 months and 3 years of age. By adulthood, nearly all people (60 - 90%) have been infected with HSV-1.

Source: Herpes simplex | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/report...#ixzz2pP7q43M1
University of Maryland Medical Center

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Testing is so routine at this point it's unfathomable why any healthcare provider wouldn't do the test.

It's hard to believe a clinic said "Oh children don't get cold sores that young".

It's also hard to believe that "they" would say they've never heard of such a test.