Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
Good point Carl =)
With the outcome STILL coming at the hands of the court...to whom the OP has been referred, NUMEROUS times. For some reason, he's adamant that this can be handled without the court's involvement. And as we've all been trying to tell him, it's just not so.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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SuperPop
Does it make sense for a father to get married just for the child? i.e. find out GF is pregnant, ask her to marry him, go to court house, get marriage certificate, divorce as soon as the child is born? or does duration of the marriage matter?
Is that the only solution unwed fathers have? I love my kid, if i knew that was the only way i'd get to see her, i would have absolutly done that.
The courts aren't stupid, put it that way. Your proposal would be glaring example of the father not giving one smidge about the child.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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Dogmatique
The courts aren't stupid, put it that way. Your proposal would be glaring example of the father not giving one smidge about the child.
I thought that would be the opposite, doing everything a father can to be a part of the childs life. So being married doesnt even help?
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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SuperPop
Does it make sense for a father to get married just for the child?
i.e. find out GF is pregnant, ask her to marry him, go to court house, get marriage certificate, divorce as soon as the child is born?
If they want the benefits of marriage, including rights granted automatically to married fathers, yes. It doesn't have to make sense, it's what is provided for in the law. Remember, marriage is a legal contract, entered into by both parties, outlining rights and responsibilities, and providing relief from the contract via the divorce process. There isn't an "Unwed father fairy" who comes down with a wand to bestow the same. Rather, that takes a court order in lieu of the contract.
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or does duration of the marriage matter?
Not really. At least not for custody issues. And, the divorce process can be just as long or longer than the custody/visitation process for an unwed father, BUT it has the advantage that the court can put temporary orders in place immediately upon the divorce filing, rather than at the END of a visitation case. And, it begs the question as to whether mom would say "yes" to a marriage proposal. She might not. That's why the order is supposed to be (1) love, (2) marriage, (3) children, and not (1) children, (2) evaluation of relationship with mom, (3) oh crap this court stuff sucks.
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Is that the only solution unwed fathers have, a loveless marriage?
Not at all. They are perfectly free to choose to impregnate only women they love and want to raise children with. If they choose OTHERWISE, there are ramifications, including the need for the courts to be involved to establish enforceable rights. And, really, even people without children can and do get married for reasons OTHER than "love".
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I love my kid, if i knew that was the only way i'd get to see her, i would have absolutly done that.
It's NOT the ONLY way you'll get to see her. But you WILL now need to take the step of getting a visitation order.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
look at it this way pops.
if a couple is married, there is a presumption the parents lived together and of the child being around and accustomed to both parents
if they were not married, there is no reason to believe the father has ever seen the child. Obviously the mother has. The courts are not going to allow a person with no known or established relationship with the child to take custody of the child.
so, if a father in the unmarried couple situation wants custody or visitation, he can simply go to the courts and ask for custody or visitation. The courts will then review his relationship with the child and a custody or visitation order will be entered by the courts.
I don't see why you are having such trouble with this simple concept.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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SuperPop
I thought that would be the opposite, doing everything a father can to be a part of the childs life. So being married doesnt even help?
Getting married for the sake of the child isn't in the child's best interest.
Trust me here, Pops. There are several excellent methods of seeing your child unhindered. That whole fraud thing? Not so much.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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Dogmatique
Getting married for the sake of the child isn't in the child's best interest.
Trust me here, Pops. There are several excellent methods of seeing your child unhindered. That whole fraud thing? Not so much.
Can you please tell us some of them them? No one has really mentioned anything beyond, file for visitation and hope you don't get screwed with the minimum standard order or Every Other Weekend.
Let's be more specific, a father comes in here and says "I have a paternity order and have been paying child support. I'd like to have my child Every Other Weekend Friday night to monday morning and Every Week Thursday after school to friday start of school, how do i do that?"
that's only 130 overnights, 36%, that's not a lot of time. What do you tell him?
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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There are several excellent methods of seeing your child unhindered.
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SuperPop
Can you please tell us some of them them? No one has really mentioned anything beyond, file for visitation and hope you don't get screwed with the minimum standard order or Every Other Weekend.
No, you HAVE been given other ways to see the child outside of a court order:
1) marry mom and gain equal rights
2) move in with mom and coparent under the same roof, with or without a visitation order (until mom wants to do something different)
3) do whatever mom asks to stay in her good graces and get whatever level of access to the child mom is prepared to allow (which may be more than the court would order, BUT you'll have no recourse if mom ever changes her mind and cuts all contact except to start the court process over again)
Note that what all of these have in common is that mom has to be 100% willing to go along.
If that's NOT the case, then a visitation order IS your only recourse. Even if mom is playing nice now, you should STILL seek a visitation order to protect your interests and establish your rights, because without that order, you really have nothing enforceable. The BEST strategy to get MAX time with your child is a combination of a visitation order AND #3 - getting an order establishes MINIMUM time, and playing nice with mom can gain you time BEYOND what's ordered by the court. If there becomes an established history of mom granting you SIGNIFICANT time beyond the court's order, then that status quo can aid in your quest asking the court to alter the order to reflect that additional time. But you've got to START at square one first.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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SuperPop
Can you please tell us some of them them? No one has really mentioned anything beyond, file for visitation and hope you don't get screwed with the minimum standard order or Every Other Weekend.
Let's be more specific, a father comes in here and says "I have a paternity order and have been paying child support. I'd like to have my child Every Other Weekend Friday night to monday morning and Every Week Thursday after school to friday start of school, how do i do that?"
that's only 130 overnights, 36%, that's not a lot of time. What do you tell him?
I'd suggest that he files for - yeap, you guessed it - an enforceable parenting plan. Heck if I'm in the right mood I might even show him where to get the forms.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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Dogmatique
I'd suggest that he files for - yeap, you guessed it - an enforceable parenting plan. Heck if I'm in the right mood I might even show him where to get the forms.
Which state? I'm moving there!
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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Which state? I'm moving there!
In ALL states. Same thing we've been telling you all along: to get a visitation order (same thing as a parenting plan) through the court.
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SuperPop
Let's be more specific, a father comes in here and says "I have a paternity order and have been paying child support. I'd like to have my child Every Other Weekend Friday night to monday morning and Every Week Thursday after school to friday start of school, how do i do that?"
that's only 130 overnights, 36%, that's not a lot of time. What do you tell him?
We tell him to go to court, open a visitation case, and ask for exactly that visitation schedule. We can't guarantee that's what the court will ultimately order, but neither is it so unreasonable for a young child, that the court would deny it out of hand. Again however, distance and travel time may come into play if dad lives in another state.
And, as the child gets older and enters school, that plan may not be functional for the child and the court can modify it accordingly, for example, giving dad big blocks of time over summer and holiday times, ordering phone or Skype time, during the week to make up for the fact that the distance may make the initial plan unworkable for the child's school schedule.
(This is where a longer term strategy of consideration of moving closer to the child comes into play, as well as getting a custody/visitation order that can prevent mom from just up and moving across the country with the child without the court's approval, and giving dad the opportunity to object, which as of today, she can do.)
We'd also tell dad to be prepared to bear the brunt of the financial burden of travel, unless the court can find reason to rule otherwise.
Re: The Difference Between a Divorced Dad vs an Unmarried Dad Who Established Paterni
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SuperPop
Which state? I'm moving there!
I didn't say it would be ordered...
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