Motion to Return Property

My question involves police conduct in the State of: ca
This is the whole story nothing withheld.

So I am self employed working on homes painting ext.. Over the past few years business has been tough but I managed to save about $18000.
Now this past year after being issued a few traffic citations for cellphone talking and no seatbelt I decided to cell my car and buy a bicycle not only to save money but to discipline my self. All the hassles I go through with my bank combined with the fear of these tickets going to collections Led to my decision to pull all of my money out of the bank. Most safes that are not mobile were not convenient for my living situation. So I decided to hold my money on me at all times in a small plastic bag because a lot times while working with stucco and paint things get a bit messy.

Dealing with the traffic infractions brought me into the courthouse for the first time in over 10 years since I was convicted of felony possession of marijuana back in 02. Having already expunged my record completely I started thinking about my gun rights and if they had been restored. I began to do some gun shopping. I looked at a ton of cool guns , chatted with people about guns,took all types of photos and even had the chance to try a few out.

Now on Saturday night I had to decided to rent a car because the following day I needed to pick up som materials for work. Since I had the car I then decided to go see a woman friend of mine who lived in a bad part of town. On the way home I was pulled over for not having my headlights on. I Was not drunk or under the influence of drugs the only things in my possession were my cash and cell phone. Immediately after the officers approached my car before I could even get my license they told me to get out. So opened the door and was restrained and searched. They removed my cash from my pocket and asked me how much was there I told them a few thousand they asked exactly how much so I told them about $18000. I was put in hand cuffs and put I the back of the police car. One officers began searching through my cell phone and found the pictures of guns I had saved along with text messages and emails taking about guns. I was taken to the station and booked. When I spoke to a detective he asked me what all the photos were about. I told him I was excited about restoring my gun rights and also I had sent a photo someone who acting like an ass of a gun gun to scare him but that a friend a friend and that it was nothing serious. He said we was going to get a warrant to search it and that I would be going to court in 2 days.
I was then taken to the county jail for 5 days and then released without ever going to court. I went into the district attorneys office and they said they didn't have anything on file. I went into the the police station and was told that my phone and cash were being held as evidence and that an investigation was pending. I went back a week later and the detective said that it could take months.
So it has been about a month now and I have been talking with a few lawyers. Although I cannot afford to actually hire one I was told that I could file for a motion to return property. Some research and I found that this could be done at the clerks office in the form of a letter. So I am planning to file one tomorrow but I would leone feedback and advice from anyone who has experience these matters. In other words what's next here I desperately need that money back it's all i have.

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Having already expunged my record completely I started thinking about my gun rights and if they had been restored.

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there's something totally new you didn't include in your other thread. So, you've had the felony expunged?

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d even had the chance to try a few out.

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so you broke the law again already?

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Now on Saturday night I had to decided to rent a car

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so now it's a rented car?

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On the way home I was pulled over for not having my headlights on. I Was not drunk or under the influence of drugs the only things in my possession were my cash and cell phone. Immediately after the officers approached my car before I could even get my license they told me to get out. So opened the door and was restrained and searched.

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again we're back to they pulled you out of your car, and a rented one no less so they didn't even know who you were when they stopped you, without any justification.

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I had sent a photo someone who acting like an ass of a gun gun to scare him but that a friend a friend and that it was nothing serious

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so you sent a pic of a gun with the intent to induce fear. You do realize that is a crime, right?

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So I am planning to file one tomorrow but I would leone feedback and advice from anyone who has experience these matters.

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is there some reason you started another thread for this?

were you going to ask for your penis pump back as well as the money and your phone?

JK. Seriously, I'm going to sue you for Kleenex cost. My laptop is nawt impressed :p

I had to go get the pump from the car at the towing yard. And no crime was committed in my opinion it was to make peace after I received a threatening phone call from that person. This is no different than pulling a gun on Somone who threatens you in person except real life is real and movies are movies with actors.

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Quoting aclark17

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And no crime was committed in my opinion it was to induce peace.

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sorry but if you are talking about the picture being used as an implied threat: you may not see it as a crime but..




I'll tell you what; if you are so certain it isn't a crime;

send a pic of a gun to Pres Obama. You will apparently be quite surprised at the visitors that will bring to your home.

I would defiantly pass on that very bad idea I wouldn't even so much much as repeat what you said there idiot.
Can anyone give me some real feedback on this issue I'm looking for a lawyer or person who has seen similar circumstance.

Why? If it's not a crime what's the concern?

as to the return of anything: until their investigation is complete they are not going to release it. Since you choose to keep so many details to yourself, nobody can give you much of any hope in you efforts

Isn't there something in the constitution that says all Americans have the right to bear arms

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Quoting aclark17

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Isn't there something in the constitution that says all Americans have the right to bear arms

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Are you also one of those people who think freedom of speech means they can go around willy-nilly being obnoxious without fear of consquences?

Are you also a Texans fan?

You did the crime. You do the time - including any and all restrictions laid upon you.

I do suggest you grab a dictionary and learn what the Constitution and Bill of Rights actually mean.

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Quoting aclark17

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Isn't there something in the constitution that says all Americans have the right to bear arms

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Yep and you have proven yourself not worthy of the right so they slapped you hands and told you know more guns

Did they also take my right to defend my self against dangerous beast in the wilderness

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Quoting aclark17

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Did they also take my right to defend my self against dangerous beast in the wilderness

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Sure, you can defend yourself from wild beasts ... just not with a firearm.

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Quoting aclark17

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Did they also take my right to defend my self against dangerous beast in the wilderness

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Not unless she's called Xena or Katniss. And not with a firearm.

We'll in that case they should have classes that teach the primitive human survival tactics because the only defense the modern man knows is a firearm

Speaking of animals.

Did you know that until the incident at Enumclaw, bestiality wasn't illegal in my state? The new legislation is somewhat cloudy though. Can't remember off-hand if addresses bears or not.

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Quoting aclark17

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We'll in that case they should have classes that teach the primitive human survival tactics because the only defense the modern man knows is a firearm

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They have classes in self defense. There are martial arts classes, there are big sticks you can carry - even big knives! And most people in this world go their whole lives without ever needing a gun, so why do YOU feel you need one?

I used to live and work in the wilds and I never carried a gun. In fact, it never occurred to me to carry one. I even did population for State Parks involving mountain lions and bears, and I managed to never get attacked by one of them. I did have a dangerous encounter with a raccoon and her young, but that simply required my being able to run faster than they could.

Any real legal advice here

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Quoting aclark17

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Any real legal advice here

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Do you have a question? You stated you were going to try and file a motion with the court to get your money back ... not sure that you kow how to do that, but it sounds as if you had a plan.

You've shot all over the place and I think we're unclear what you're asking. Your story is fishy, leaves plenty of room for skeptical interpretation, and there is almost certainly more to the tale than either (a) you know, or, (b) that you are revealing. You may be best served by paying an attorney to make your motion and argument for you. If you start rambling to a court in all directions like you have here, you might not get what you seek.

Is there another question?

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Quoting aclark17

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So I am self employed working on homes painting ext.. Over the past few years business has been tough but I managed to save about $18000.

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Here's the thing. You have told us that you make $10,000 per year, and even though you cheat on your taxes and commit welfare fraud it's safe to say that between when you started your business in (or after) January 2012 and the present you did not somehow manage to save every penny you earned. Even if you have learned to, you know, paint house and garage doors in the interim. (Ouch... not a good review.)

You previously claimed that this money was from an inheritance you received a long time ago, although it apparently wasn't available to you in 2011 when you had thousands of dollars in unpaid tickets. You also said,

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Quoting aclark17

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I can show all the deposits on my bank statments I also inherited 30000 in 2004 at the time I didn't know they didn't withhold state taxes so they liened my account which partly why I hold the cash I had recently agreed to make payments

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We've previously covered the fact that, as a beneficiary, you would not have had to pay taxes on a California inheritance in 2004.

For your statement about bank transactions to be true, you would have had to have just closed your bank account, so the tickets from 2011 could not have played much of a role in your decision. In any event, if you can show that you literally just closed your bank account and withdrew $18,000 that you had saved over a decade, you'll be a step closer to being able to establish that the money was not obtained through illegal activity.

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Quoting aclark17

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Now this past year after being issued a few traffic citations for cellphone talking and no seatbelt I decided to cell my car and buy a bicycle not only to save money but to discipline my self.

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As a professional contractor, you're able to load up your ladders, paint cans, rollers, trays, and other supplies and get them to your clients' homes while riding a bicycle? I'm impressed.

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Quoting aclark17

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All the hassles I go through with my bank combined with the fear of these tickets going to collections Led to my decision to pull all of my money out of the bank.

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You told us before that "I hold my cash because in opinion it was the safest place for it". You didn't mention fear of having to pay your unpaid tickets, although you have told us that before the seizure you had plenty of money to pay them off.

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Quoting aclark17

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Most safes that are not mobile were not convenient for my living situation. So I decided to hold my money on me at all times in a small plastic bag because a lot times while working with stucco and paint things get a bit messy.

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The stucco and paint things you carry around on your bicycle.... What about the finish carpentry part of your business? Do you also carry around a table saw, mitre saw, and trim pieces? Wait... and you do stone, tile and concrete work? Please, please, post a picture of yourself loaded up for a job.

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Quoting aclark17

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Dealing with the traffic infractions brought me into the courthouse for the first time in over 10 years since I was convicted of felony possession of marijuana back in 02.

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The first time?

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Quoting aclark17

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Having already expunged my record completely I started thinking about my gun rights and if they had been restored. I began to do some gun shopping. I looked at a ton of cool guns , chatted with people about guns,took all types of photos and even had the chance to try a few out.

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Except you knew that you were not legally entitled to own firearms due to your felony record and, depending on what "brought in for a psych evaluation about 5 years ago after a family argument" means, possibly also due to your mental health record.

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Quoting aclark17

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Now on Saturday night I had to decided to rent a car because the following day I needed to pick up som materials for work.

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More than would fit on the bicycle? So, then, this was a pickup truck you rented, full of painting tools and supplies when you were pulled over? Because you only told us about the items you possessed for your date.

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Quoting aclark17

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Since I had the car I then decided to go see a woman friend of mine who lived in a bad part of town. On the way home I was pulled over for not having my headlights on. I Was not drunk or under the influence of drugs the only things in my possession were my cash and cell phone.

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And the stuff for your date.

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Quoting aclark17

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Immediately after the officers approached my car before I could even get my license they told me to get out. So opened the door and was restrained and searched.

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As others have indicated, it's already fair to infer that there's more to the story than you've shared, as that's not how the police would normally handle a routine stop where a driver had simply forgotten to turn on his headlights, even in a bad neighborhood.

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Quoting aclark17

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They removed my cash from my pocket and asked me how much was there I told them a few thousand they asked exactly how much so I told them about $18000. I was put in hand cuffs and put I the back of the police car. One officers began searching through my cell phone and found the pictures of guns I had saved along with text messages and emails taking about guns. I was taken to the station and booked.

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For "trafficking/distributing assault weapons"?

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Quoting aclark17

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When I spoke to a detective he asked me what all the photos were about. I told him I was excited about restoring my gun rights and also I had sent a photo someone who acting like an ass of a gun gun to scare him but that a friend a friend and that it was nothing serious. He said we was going to get a warrant to search it and that I would be going to court in 2 days.

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So you stated that you were interested in getting a gun even though it was not yet legal for you to own one... no crime in that. And that you threatened somebody... as you've been told, there is a crime in that.

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Quoting aclark17

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I was then taken to the county jail for 5 days and then released without ever going to court.

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There would have been an opportunity, somewhere during that time, to post bail.

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Quoting aclark17

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Some research and I found that this could be done at the clerks office in the form of a letter.

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What did you look at, that suggested such an incorrect notion of how to commence a legal action? Incidentally, if the police are actually investigating a crime, the odds that a court is going to order them to return the evidence they seized is between slim and none and, as they say, slim just left town.

Also, armed only with your username and Google, I found my way to this, this, this, and ultimately through the other information searches kicked up to this. And the "Listings by this user" link leads me to this and this. And I keep finding more, and more.... Now, I don't rule out the possibility that this is somebody who has a similar name to yours, but if that sort of thing is the smoke the police found I'm not surprised that they're looking for fire. While I only have search engines, they can subpoena records from the sites you frequent and from your ISP.

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Quoting aclark17

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This is no different than pulling a gun on Somone who threatens you in person except real life is real and movies are movies with actors.

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It is different, actually, and depending on the circumstances "pulling a gun on Som[e]one who threatens you in person" can be a crime.

At this point, here's my theory: You were under investigation for buying and/or selling guns in the neighborhood where you were pulled over. Your having your headlights off provided a valid reason for the stop, but the police exercised extra precaution given your record as a drug dealer, your mental health problems, and the fact that you are believed to be trafficking firearms. The Sheriff's Department hoped to catch you with some actual firearms, but instead caught you only with photographs and a huge amount of cash. They detained you, but ultimately found that it's going to take longer than they had hoped to build their case, so you have been released while they attempt to assemble the data and witnesses they believe will allow them to prove a charge against you.

Does that sound plausible?

Thank you for your thoughts. The bottom line about the money is that I most certainly have not gained any of it through illegal means regardless of what anything on my cell phone may suggest and taxes are between me and the irs. Unlicensed contracting is not a criminal offense. The photos that were sent from my phone were simply photo sharing with a friend nothing serious at all. I have never threatened anyone with harm no threatening communication took place. I don't see how I can be charged with a crime when no crime has been commited and the only thing they have is electronic to go off into infinity with. I understand the concerns of the sheriffs department and do not seek to sue them over this.
My bet is that the money will be returned to me in due time and that I'm just getting my balls broken big time here. What's yours?

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Unlicensed contracting is not a criminal offense.

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You're from California, right?

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Those who are caught contracting without a license likely will have to appear before a Superior Court judge to answer to misdemeanor charges that can carry a potential sentence of up to six months in jail and/or a $5,000 fine, as well as an administrative fine of $200 to $15,000. If illegal contracting continues, the penalties become more severe. A second offense results in a mandatory 90-day jail sentence and a fine of 20 percent of the contract price or $5,000.

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You were saying?

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The photos that were sent from my phone were simply photo sharing with a friend nothing serious at all.

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what about you firing off a few rounds or did you forget you said that?

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I have never threatened anyone with harm no threatening communication took place.

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You already said you sent the pic of the gun with the intent to cause fear or distress and to cause the receiver to comply with some demand of yours. That is a crime.

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I don't see how I can be charged with a crime when no crime has been commited and the only thing they have is electronic to go off into infinity with

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.You have admitted to several crimes on this forum. Who knows what the police have on you...


oh ya, they do. That is probable why you are in the situation you are currently in.

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I understand the concerns of the sheriffs department and do not seem to sue them over this.

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It is highly unlikely you would have any basis to sue them but you go ahead if you think it will get you anywhere.

- - - Updated - - -

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Quoting aclark17

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Did they also take my right to defend my self against dangerous beast in the wilderness

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if it involves using a gun...yes, they did. You can take after them dangerous beasts with a knife though.

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Quoting aclark17

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The bottom line about the money is that I most certainly have not gained any of it through illegal means regardless of what anything on my cell phone may suggest....

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That may be true, but if it is why are you lying to us about where the money came from?

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Quoting aclark17

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I don't see how I can be charged with a crime when no crime has been commited and the only thing they have is electronic to go off into infinity with.

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So you're not disputing that it's you in the forum threads, talking about guns you were buying, selling, or that were in your possession? That's plenty upon which to start an investigation. If you were selling guns online, you will have left a digital trail for them to follow.

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Quoting aclark17

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I understand the concerns of the sheriffs department and do not seek to sue them over this.

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I'm sure they'll be relieved to hear that they won't be facing a frivolous lawsuit.

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Quoting aclark17

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My bet is that the money will be returned to me in due time and that I'm just getting my balls broken big time here. What's yours?

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My bet is that the chickens are going to come home to roost.

I would not call the asphalt jungle a wilderness. So you have a CA contractors license? How do you move ladders and painting equipment on a bicycle? I heard a story once about wearing bright colored beads and garlic to ward off bears. Of course I heard another story that you can easily tell bear scat because it contains bright colored beads and smells like garlic.

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Quoting aclark17

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We'll in that case they should have classes that teach the primitive human survival tactics because the only defense the modern man knows is a firearm

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and for God's sake, the word is:


SHINY

shin·y
ˈSHīnē/


[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• 1.
  (of a smooth surface) reflecting light, typically because very clean or polished.
  
  

not siny, not sinny, not shinny, nor any of the other misspellings you have used. I have to guess you don't actually know how to spell it since I have not found it spelled correctly in any of your various postings about paint or guns.

Sorry if I am trying your patience today JK. :confused:

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Quoting Disagreeable

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Sorry if I am trying your patience today JK. :confused:

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Not you; aclark17.


As I traveled through those links Mr. K posted, it would appear aclark has an affinity for sinny, siny, sinney, things which given the context of the statement is meant to be shiny. If I serve no other purpose on this world, I want to be able to claim I succeeded in correcting aclark's misspelling of shiny. It is apparent there are others out there (those making fun of his spelling on each of those forums) that would appreciate it as well.

I would like some people here give me there best guess on what is going to happen next here

I expect that the police will try to chase down leads to prove that you bought and sold firearms, and to find witnesses who can establish actual transactions. If they don't find enough to charge you criminally, I would not be surprised if they bring an in rem action (forfeiture) against the money. Given the interstate activity, they may package the whole thing up for the feds.

They will find no gun sale witnesses I have never sold a gun to anyone. They cannot proove I made that money illegally, I can proove that I made that amount working with bank staments and the people who wrote me checks over the past few years. But if it turns out to be my job to proove all off this along with being incarcerated 5 days and having my money with held I would be suing for my money plus another twenty thousand. however I understand that drugs are a problem and that searches and investigations are a part of the solution but holding my property isn't.

You might be surprised at how easy it may be to convince someone that you're in the wrong....

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Quoting aclark17

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They will find no gun sale witnesses I have never sold a gun to anyone. They cannot proove I made that money illegally, I can proove that I made that amount working with bank staments and the people who wrote me checks over the past few years. But if it turns out to be my job to proove all off this along with being incarcerated 5 days and having my money with held I would be suing for my money plus another twenty thousand.

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Yeah, you may get your money back ... minus whatever it is the feds or the state might be owed for your failure to declare this income and/or assets.

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Quoting aclark17

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I would like some people here give me there best guess on what is going to happen next here

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with the info you provided; no way to even venture any sort of reliable guess. Based on how it went down and the various forums where you claim ownership to several different weapons that are illegal for you to own;

you will spend some time in prison

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They will find no gun sale witnesses I have never sold a gun to anyone.

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maybe you need to go and edit all the posts you have made on the various gun forums.

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They cannot proove I made that money illegally

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that was the point of that first link I gave you. They could not prove those people made the money illegally but guess what; they lost the money

There are multiple stories out there quite similar; guy gets pulled over; has considerable amount of cash on hand; can't prove it was not illegally gained money; government claims it is obvious is is drug money or some other illegally gained money; government takes money; guys at the original police department have a party; guy that lost the money goes home without the money.

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But if it turns out to be my job to proove all off this along with being incarcerated 5 days and having my money with held I would be suing for my money plus another twenty thousand.

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Ya, you keep that in mind. From what you have said, you would already have a claim for that and much much more but I don't think it is quite as you describe.

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I understand that drugs are a problem and that searches and investigations are a part of the solution but holding my property isn't.

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actually, it can be part of the process, depending on the reason for the arrest and seizure of property.

Apparently he also has white scaly spots on his member. Yuck!!! He also has admitted to cheating on his taxes and having thousands in unpaid tickets it appears.

You people are great. No drugs no guns no crime. Case closed where's my money. why not just arrest people right off the internet.

You're a convicted drug dealer, you are actively committing tax fraud and welfare fraud, you are illegally taking contractor's jobs without a license or permit, you have a stack of unpaid traffic tickets, and... did you pay the citation for soliciting without a license? And you were talking about your guns, and trying to buy and sell guns, on the Internet. As I previously indicated, I don't think you were stopped by coincidence, although having your lights off certainly provided the excuse - I think the police are on to some of your illegal games, most notably your illegal trade in firearms. If you can't do the time, stop doing the crimes.

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Quoting aclark17

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You people are great. No drugs no guns no crime. Case closed where's my money. why not just arrest people right off the internet.

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sorry but you only know what you know. Apparently you do not know what the police know. As long as there is an active investigation and part of the crime being investigated involves that money, you aren't getting it back. Then, if you are charged with a crime, you aren't getting it back until at least after the trial, and that is only if are found not guilty. If you are found guilty, it's likely gone.

then, if they don't charge you...well, since we are seeing things that suggest serious felonies, it could be years before they finally resolve to not charge you.


but what the hell.

go to court. File a motion seeking an order from the court ordering the police to release whatever you want to make a claim for (I don't recall, did they keep the pump? I would love to see the judges face when he reads:

seeking an order to have property release:

1. $18k in cash of various denominations of US bills,
2. 1 [brand name] penis pump)



I say there's nothing like whacking a hornets nest with a stick. It gets the hornets real pissed off and everybody besides the guy with the stick gets a lot of entertainment out of it.

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Quoting aclark17

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You people are great. No drugs no guns no crime. Case closed where's my money.

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Hire an attorney and ask that question again.

I wholly agree with Mr. K. and have previously stated that this was not a random stop. This has the earmarks of a contact that was the result of an investigation that resulted in some very strong suspicions, or actually dug up some evidence that you were involved in some form of criminal activity - or, as it seems, several.

Time to hire that attorney. Ranting about how you were done wrong and changing your story here on the internet won't do anything to resolve the matter.

Whacking the hornets nest indeed. I suppose the photo of me pointing a gun into the camera isn't going to help anything.

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Quoting aclark17

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Whacking the hornets nest indeed. I suppose the photo of me pointing a gun into the camera isn't going to help anything.

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Actually, I think it would help a lot.




Not you of course since it would be more than enough evidence to convict you of illegally possessing a weapon but it would help the prosecutor a lot. It would make his job to prosecute you a walk in the park.

God bless america and I love women. I wish that that law enforcement would reduce crime instead of trying to make criminals. Please forgive me for taking private photos of guns and wanting to own a gun. How am i to posses a gun legally so that I may independently protect my own life.

Whacking the hornets nest is mixing guns with serious criminal acts such as drugs, robbery, ext..