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Are Joint Custody and 50/50 Custody the Same Thing

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  • 12-05-2013, 06:21 AM
    SuperPop
    Are Joint Custody and 50/50 Custody the Same Thing
    When is 50/50 not joint custody?

    mmmagique is right, it's going to be hard to make a case for 50/50 right now, BUT, Step-up plans are becoming very common with for young unmarried parents. There seems to be different standard parenting plans for each county in Maryland, i couldn't find one that 'steps up' to 50/50 within Maryland. So here is a good guideline from another state to review.

    http://www.azcourts.gov/portals/31/p...guidelines.pdf

    If she is willing to give you 6-8 overnight now, i'd start with a schedule like 4-5 in that document till the child is 3 then, Step up to number 11 from the ages of 3-5, step up to number 13 from 6-9yrs old and finally, 14 from 9+....As the child gets older she/he is going to be involved with all kinds of activities over the weekends, everything from organized school activities to Youth sports to play dates to just wanting to hang out with his/her friends, you want more time then just weekends otherwise your parenting time will just be you taxiing the child around and with no 'quality' time available.
  • 12-05-2013, 08:21 AM
    llworking
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    When is 50/50 not joint custody?

    mmmagique is right, it's going to be hard to make a case for 50/50 right now, BUT, Step-up plans are becoming very common with for young unmarried parents. There seems to be different standard parenting plans for each county in Maryland, i couldn't find one that 'steps up' to 50/50 within Maryland. So here is a good guideline from another state to review.

    http://www.azcourts.gov/portals/31/p...guidelines.pdf

    If she is willing to give you 6-8 overnight now, i'd start with a schedule like 4-5 in that document till the child is 3 then, Step up to number 11 from the ages of 3-5, step up to number 13 from 6-9yrs old and finally, 14 from 9+....As the child gets older she/he is going to be involved with all kinds of activities over the weekends, everything from organized school activities to Youth sports to play dates to just wanting to hang out with his/her friends, you want more time then just weekends otherwise your parenting time will just be you taxiing the child around and with no 'quality' time available.

    Of course, mom has to AGREE to a stepped up plan and/or a judge has to order a stepped up plan against mom's will. And again, mom has status quo at this point so there is no guarantee that a judge would do that.
  • 12-05-2013, 08:29 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Of course, mom has to AGREE to a stepped up plan and/or a judge has to order a stepped up plan against mom's will. And again, mom has status quo at this point so there is no guarantee that a judge would do that.

    I Agree, Mom AND Dad, have to agree to a stepped up plan unless they want the judge to order it.

    90%+ of parenting plans are settled in negotiations and never go to trial. That's no new information. BOTH parents have to agree on a parenting plan, not just Mom. Or they go to a judge and both make a case as to why their plan should be ordered by the judge. A step up plan doesn't effect mom's status quo, by starting off with an amount mom wants, it accepts mom's current status quo, it just requests that time increase as the child ages.

    Legally, do you think a judge will agree that parenting time should increase as a child ages, or that the same amount of time an 18 month old spends with the non-custodial parent should be what a 14yr old spends with the non-custodial parent?

    Our courts are clogged with cases right now and a 'significant change of circumstances' is a hard hurtle to jump. I think the judge will appreciate that dad won't have to keep going back every 3-5 years to request modification of the order. ( I have an 8yr old and have had to go to court 5 times over 6-7 years for modifications that could have been spelled out in the original order with a step up plan. Things the ex agreed with, but still had to be signed off on by a judge.)
  • 12-05-2013, 08:39 AM
    llworking
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    90%+ of parenting plans are settled in negotiations and never go to trial. That's no new information. BOTH parents have to agree on a parenting plan, not just Mom. Or they go to a judge and both make a case as to why their plan should be ordered by the judge. A step up plan doesn't effect mom's status quo, by starting off with an amount mom wants, it accepts mom's current status quo, it just requests that time increase as the child ages.

    Legally, do you think a judge will agree that parenting time should increase as a child ages, or that the same amount of time an 18 month old spends with the non-custodial parent should be what a 14yr old spends with the non-custodial parent?

    Legally, its irrelevant. Judges make decisions on parenting time (when the parents cannot agree themselves) based on what appears to be in the best interest of a particular child, at a particular time. Its possible that for a particular child, that less time with the non-custodial parent could be appropriate at 14, or that no change in parenting time at all could be appropriate at 14. It all depends on the facts of the specific case and the needs of the specific child.

    Yes, its true that parenting time for infants and toddlers generally goes into phases as they get older, but once standard visitation is reached (usually at age 3 or sometimes younger) judges are not necessarily inclined to increase parenting time unless parents agree to it.
  • 12-05-2013, 08:47 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Legally, its irrelevant. Judges make decisions on parenting time (when the parents cannot agree themselves) based on what appears to be in the best interest of a particular child, at a particular time. Its possible that for a particular child, that less time with the non-custodial parent could be appropriate at 14, or that no change in parenting time at all could be appropriate at 14. It all depends on the facts of the specific case and the needs of the specific child.

    Can we also say, that 'its possible that stepping up to 50/50 is appropriate at 9'? It all depends on the facts of the specific case and the needs of the specific child.

    Why dismiss stepping up to 50/50 as out of the question, if we don't know the facts of the specific case and the needs of the specific child?

    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Yes, its true that parenting time for infants and toddlers generally goes into phases as they get older, but once standard visitation is reached (usually at age 3 or sometimes younger) judges are not necessarily inclined to increase parenting time unless parents agree to it.

    What is the 'Standard visitation' in the OP's county in Maryland? I can't find one. This is why it's so important to establish a step up plan right away, because otherwise you have to show a 'material chance in circumstances' and judges ARE reluctant to make changes once a plan is established and working.
  • 12-05-2013, 10:04 AM
    llworking
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    Can we also say, that 'its possible that stepping up to 50/50 is appropriate at 9'? It all depends on the facts of the specific case and the needs of the specific child.

    Why dismiss stepping up to 50/50 as out of the question, if we don't know the facts of the specific case and the needs of the specific child?[

    What is the 'Standard visitation' in the OP's county in Maryland? I can't find one. This is why it's so important to establish a step up plan right away, because otherwise you have to show a 'material chance in circumstances' and judges ARE reluctant to make changes once a plan is established and working.

    Ok...lets try this again.

    You are unlikely to find a judge, anywhere in the US, that will ORDER, against one parent's will, a custody plan that makes stepped changes that are more than a couple, maybe three years out. Why? Because a judge has absolutely zero idea what is going to be in the best interest of a particular child 4- 12 or more years out. Judges simply don't do that because its impossible to know. That is why custody is modifiable and never so permanent that a modification cannot be requested.

    Judges will usually (but not always) sign off on agreements that parents make that contain provisions like that. A judge might not sign off on something that a judge feels is just going to result in the parents being right back in court a year later...for example.

    So, I had two problems with your recommendation. The first problem was that you did not suggest that dad "try" for something like that. You made it sound like all he had to do was ask for it and that is what would happen. The second problem was that I knew a judge would be highly unlikely to order something like that without mom's agreement.

    I also think that in general its a totally bad idea for parents to agree on something that maps out changes/steps more than a couple of years out...for the same reasons that judges won't order something like that.
  • 12-05-2013, 10:23 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    So you would suggest the OP try for 50/50 right out of the gate? Or a single step from 3 overnights a week with a dinner(Sunday-Monday-Tuesday, Thursday night dinner maybe) to a 2-2-5-5 schedule?

    I have seen judges award 50/50 against the will of a parent, my childs mother and I have 50/50 against my will. 50/50 is actually VERY common in my state and a few others currently. I don't like it for my daughter, but, as you said, each child and case is different.
  • 12-05-2013, 11:01 AM
    llworking
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    So you would suggest the OP try for 50/50 right out of the gate? Or a single step from 3 overnights a week with a dinner(Sunday-Monday-Tuesday, Thursday night dinner maybe) to a 2-2-5-5 schedule?

    I have seen judges award 50/50 against the will of a parent, my childs mother and I have 50/50 against my will. 50/50 is actually VERY common in my state and a few others currently.

    Please do not put words in my mouth. I did not suggestion anything of that nature.

    Mom has status quo...and the child is only 18 months old. Dad's not going to get any of those schedules.

    Your case is irrelevant to the OP's unless you were the parent with status quo and mom was the ncp who was awarded 50/50 against your will. Even then, your case may not be relevant because the facts and circumstances may be vastly different, and no, 50-50 is not the norm, anywhere.
  • 12-05-2013, 11:09 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Your case is irrelevant to the OP's unless you were the parent with status quo and mom was the ncp who was awarded 50/50 against your will. Even then, your case may not be relevant because the facts and circumstances may be vastly different, and no, 50-50 is not the norm, anywhere.

    My daughters mother and I were unmarried when we went to court, Daughter was 8 months old once Paternity was established, Mother had Status Quo. At first(daughter 13 months) i was awarded two overnights and 1 dinner, then went back when daughter was between 2&3, i was awarded EOW and Tuesday Overnights, Went back again a couple years later, I requested 60/40, we were awarded 50/50, week on/week off.

    You're right, my case is irrelevant. It just goes to show my legal experience....do you have ANY legal experience? You're not OhioGAL are you?

    Dad can absolutely get ANY of those schedules! It just depends on how hard he is willing to fight.
  • 12-05-2013, 11:39 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    My daughters mother and I were unmarried when we went to court, Daughter was 8 months old once Paternity was established, Mother had Status Quo. At first(daughter 13 months) i was awarded two overnights and 1 dinner, then went back when daughter was between 2&3, i was awarded EOW and Tuesday Overnights, Went back again a couple years later, I requested 60/40, we were awarded 50/50, week on/week off.

    You're right, my case is irrelevant. It just goes to show my legal experience....do you have ANY legal experience? You're not OhioGAL are you?

    Dad can absolutely get ANY of those schedules! It just depends on how hard he is willing to fight.

    Congrats on confirming who you are.

    Folks - this is the same "person" who has made multiple accounts "down the street" and is no more interested in "best interest" than he is "what's good for me and my wallet".
  • 12-05-2013, 11:42 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Congrats on confirming who you are.

    Folks - this is the same "person" who has made multiple accounts "down the street" and is no more interested in "best interest" than he is "what's good for me and my wallet".

    I had an account 'down the street' but haven't created 'multiple accounts' i don't know where you got that idea, my IP is actually banned their because of the attacks by users like you there. As for 'what good for me and my wallet' that is ridiculous and EXTREMELY offensive!! I have openly berated parents who were trying to increase parenting time JUST to lower child support and find that deplorable! I myself live in a state in which percentage of parenting time isn't a factor in child support payments.

    So please, Dogmatique, if you are going to make baseless claims, atleast try to put even the slightest shred of truth in them!
  • 12-05-2013, 11:48 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Be as offended as you want.

    Doesn't change the reality.
  • 12-05-2013, 11:51 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Be as offended as you want.

    Doesn't change the reality.

    The reality is, as i've said, i've openly attacked and berated parents who were fighting for custody just to lower child support. That is the reality, if you want more time with your child, i will search and help you in ANY way i can, if you just want to lower your bills, go find someone else to talk to.

    Oh wait, are you one of those women who believes the only reason a parent would want equal time with their child is because of child support? Shows where your priority is OBVIOUSLY. I'm sorry for your children.
  • 12-05-2013, 11:57 AM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    I'm not. They're healthy, happy young ladies.

    :cool:

    Have some tea. It might calm you down a bit.

    And just to put the issue to bed: NO STATE uses a 50/50 timeshare as "the norm". Period. Even if

    In other words, LdiJ is absolutely correct.
  • 12-05-2013, 12:03 PM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    And just to put the issue to bed: NO STATE uses a 50/50 timeshare as "the norm". Period. Even if

    In other words, LdiJ is absolutely correct.

    No state, as far as i know, has a STANDARD 50/50 custody plan. If that's what you're saying it is true.....But, that's not what i said. Please re-read what i wrote "50/50 is actually VERY common in my state and a few others currently."

    Many states, LIKE THE OP OF THIS THREAD, don't have a Standard parenting plan AT ALL. Remember, this thread? It's in response to the OP asking about 50/50 parenting time! Not the standard plans of states OP doesn't live in.
  • 12-05-2013, 12:09 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    No state, as far as i know, has a STANDARD 50/50 custody plan. If that's what you're saying it is true.....But, that's not what i said. Please re-read what i wrote "50/50 is actually VERY common in my state and a few others currently."


    Honey, we know that you're wrong. You tried this elsewhere and an attorney shot you down in about a nanosecond.

    And that's fine.

    What is NOT fine is pretending that 50/50 is commonly ordered AGAINST the wishes of one parent. Because you can keep hijacking the thread with case-law, right?

    Statute, perhaps?

    You're doing this OP a grave disservice here.
  • 12-05-2013, 12:13 PM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    You're doing this OP a grave disservice here.

    How would you answer the OP's question? (See atleast I AM trying to stay on topic)

    How should OP go about trying to get equal time with the child?

    (If you don't have anything constructive to add, why come in here just to post off topic attacks?)
  • 12-05-2013, 03:57 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Maryland Custody
    It is possible for parents to agree to a 50/50 parenting time split without a court's having granted them joint custody, no matter what a court has previously ordered. It's possible for a court to grant relatively equal or equal parenting time but, due to a history of problems, decide that one parent should be in the driver's seat and deny joint physical custody.
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    So here is a good guideline from another state to review.

    Unless and until Maryland is annexed by Arizona, who cares what you found from another state?
    Quote:

    Quoting llworking
    View Post
    The second problem was that I knew a judge would be highly unlikely to order something like that without mom's agreement.

    Consistent with your impression, Maryland has a series of statutory requirements a court must find are met before awarding shared custody.
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    I had an account 'down the street' but haven't created 'multiple accounts' i don't know where you got that idea...

    Maybe they are inferring that you are doing the same thing there that you are doing here?
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    I myself live in a state in which percentage of parenting time isn't a factor in child support payments.

    What state?
  • 12-05-2013, 04:52 PM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    It is possible for parents to agree to a 50/50 parenting time split without a court's having granted them joint custody, no matter what a court has previously ordered. It's possible for a court to grant relatively equal or equal parenting time but, due to a history of problems, decide that one parent should be in the driver's seat and deny joint physical custody.

    You are talking about agreements outside of court, you can write anything on a sheet of loose leaf paper and follow it, that doesn't make it a custody order Physical Custody in most states is used to determine where a childs residence will be for legal purposes, such as school, taxes and other reasons. With Joint Physical Custody, it is understood to be both homes. When you are talking about 'being in the drivers' you are talking about decision making, that is LEGAL custody. While these two things (Physical and Legal) are often grouped together under one heading, "Joint Custody" they are completely different things. you can have any combination of Legal and Physical custody

    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Unless and until Maryland is annexed by Arizona, who cares what you found from another state?

    Maryland doesn't have a 'standard' parenting plan, I put that forward so the OP would have an idea of many different plans so he can get a basic idea of what options are available to him. I believe some members here are found of pointing people to the Illinois parenting time guideline as something to review, that's just not a thorough as the Arizona guidelines.

    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Maybe they are inferring that you are doing the same thing there that you are doing here?

    Giving correct answers and being attacked by the anti-father movement? Yup, that is exactly what happened 'over yonder' also! And its WAS 'over yonder' i was IP banned for defending myself

    Are you a moderator here? What is your legal experience?
  • 12-05-2013, 05:09 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Anti father? That's neat. I'm usually accused of being biased towards the fathers.

    Quote:

    You are talking about agreements outside of court, you can write anything on a sheet of loose leaf paper and follow it, that doesn't make it a custody order Physical Custody in most states is used to determine where a childs residence will be for legal purposes, such as school, taxes and other reasons. With Joint Physical Custody, it is understood to be both homes. When you are talking about 'being in the drivers' you are talking about decision making, that is LEGAL custody.
    Q4P.

    Incidentally, you weren't banned for defending yourself. You were banned for consistently posting inaccurate "advice".
  • 12-05-2013, 05:33 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    You are talking about agreements outside of court, you can write anything on a sheet of loose leaf paper and follow it, that doesn't make it a custody order

    You need to learn to read.
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    When you are talking about 'being in the drivers' you are talking about decision making, that is LEGAL custody.

    As usual, you are proving that you would lose a battle of the wits with a bag of hammers.

    No, it is simply not the case that physical custody does not involve decision-making relating to the child. Not in any state.

    You don't know what you are talking about.
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    I believe some members here are found of pointing people to the Illinois parenting time guideline as something to review, that's just not a thorough as the Arizona guidelines.

    Your incorrect belief being duly noted, Illinois law doesn't apply either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Anti father? That's neat. I'm usually accused of being biased towards the fathers.

    He did the same thing under his other ID. When he was challenged for making incorrect statements he went straight to ad hominem attacks.
  • 12-05-2013, 05:41 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    He might want to Google "Indiana Parenting Guidelines". I know "Illinois" starts with the same letter, but yeah.
  • 12-05-2013, 06:56 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Let's clarify: A parent with SOLE legal custody is safe making major decisions without the other parent's consent. That is not the case with joint legal custody. Yes, it is difference and yes, it's important to clarify. And we haven't even started on the veto issue.

    With that said, whether it's sole legal or joint, each parent can make the day-to-day decisions.
  • 12-05-2013, 07:24 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    You could always spend a month or so in each state to learn how and when different states may use different terminology.

    If you're having difficulty with this topic, see if there's a local law library.
  • 12-05-2013, 07:33 PM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    You could always spend a month or so in each state to learn how and when different states may use different terminology.

    If you're having difficulty with this topic, see if there's a local law library.

    Do you believe this is a productive comment? Does it touch on the main topic or add anything to the discussion? Or, is it really just being snarky to be snarky?
  • 12-05-2013, 08:20 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    Do you believe this is a productive comment? Does it touch on the main topic or add anything to the discussion? Or, is it really just being snarky to be snarky?



    It was actually an attempt (fruitless, it seems) to convince you to spend some time learning the differences between the states.

    I'll give you an example: In my (rather wonderful) state, you can have what is essentially a 50/50 timeshare (as in there's a legal document outlining parenting time) and still be still deemed as the primary parent. The reasoning behind it? I have no idea. Perhaps the theory is that one parent is going to have an extra day each year so while they have such a timeshare, one parent remains the primary.

    Then you have Texas, where even the basic terms are changed (which makes the whole thing so much fun).
  • 12-05-2013, 08:30 PM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    It was actually an attempt (fruitless, it seems) to convince you to spend some time learning the differences between the states.

    I'll give you an example: In my (rather wonderful) state, you can have what is essentially a 50/50 timeshare (as in there's a legal document outlining parenting time) and still be still deemed as the primary parent. The reasoning behind it? I have no idea. Perhaps the theory is that one parent is going to have an extra day each year so while they have such a timeshare, one parent remains the primary.

    Then you have Texas, where even the basic terms are changed (which makes the whole thing so much fun).

    NY is kind of like that....When you apply for child support, even when you have a True 50/50 parenting plan, even if it specifically says 'joint physical custody' in the Custody order, they must designate one parent or the other as 'primary' in the child support order, with a true 50/50 plan, that parent is designated by income....But, i think it differs from what you described above because, it doesn't change the custody order, it's just the way it has to be spelled out in the support order, which is a seperate order.
  • 12-05-2013, 09:02 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    When both parents have similar incomes, a true 50/50 split will generally rule out child support.

    If one parent earns $135k/year and the other earns $40k/year, the parent who earns more will likely end up owing the CP support despite a the actual timeshare.

    And that can go the other way, too - the CP can end up paying CS regardless of the timeshare. Then we look at the shared-income model which shifts things around.

    Such fun, isn't it?
  • 12-06-2013, 02:41 AM
    mmmagique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    My daughters mother and I were unmarried when we went to court, Daughter was 8 months old once Paternity was established, Mother had Status Quo. At first(daughter 13 months) i was awarded two overnights and 1 dinner, then went back when daughter was between 2&3, i was awarded EOW and Tuesday Overnights, Went back again a couple years later, I requested 60/40, we were awarded 50/50, week on/week off.

    You're right, my case is irrelevant. It just goes to show my legal experience....do you have ANY legal experience? You're not OhioGAL are you?

    Dad can absolutely get ANY of those schedules! It just depends on how hard he is willing to fight.

    FR: She's not Ohiogal, but it's obvious who you are...(the man with a thousand names)
  • 12-06-2013, 06:20 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting mmmagique
    View Post
    the man with a thousand names

    I like that! If the admin 'over Yonder' ever removes my IP ban, i may use that name!
  • 12-06-2013, 08:58 AM
    mmmagique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Why? You told that dad's forum that you already had a bunch lined up. Why not stick with those?
  • 12-06-2013, 09:26 AM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    When both parents have similar incomes, a true 50/50 split will generally rule out child support.

    If one parent earns $135k/year and the other earns $40k/year, the parent who earns more will likely end up owing the CP support despite a the actual timeshare.

    And that can go the other way, too - the CP can end up paying CS regardless of the timeshare. Then we look at the shared-income model which shifts things around.

    Such fun, isn't it?

    Honestly, i've never really been that interested in learning about child support, i know its something i SHOULD study if i want to continue in the field i'm in, BUT, for me personally, for my personal legal case....Money's just money, if lost, it can be replaced, time with a child if lost is irreplaceable.

    This is why i don't really like when parenting time percentage is used in child support calculations, too often, the childs time with one of the parents is restricted so the other parent can have more support. I'd support legislation for presumptive 50/50 custody and child support based solely on difference of income or a set percentage.
  • 12-06-2013, 01:21 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting mmmagique
    View Post
    Why? You told that dad's forum that you already had a bunch lined up. Why not stick with those?


    I think he's talking about M's forum. Which, incidentally, rarely uses an IP ban

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    Honestly, i've never really been that interested in learning about child support, i know its something i SHOULD study if i want to continue in the field i'm in, BUT, for me personally, for my personal legal case....Money's just money, if lost, it can be replaced, time with a child if lost is irreplaceable.

    This is why i don't really like when parenting time percentage is used in child support calculations, too often, the childs time with one of the parents is restricted so the other parent can have more support. I'd support legislation for presumptive 50/50 custody and child support based solely on difference of income or a set percentage.



    I'd support "best interest of the child".

    Are you forgetting or ignoring the concept of "status quo"? Believe it or not, that's in place for the wellbeing of the child.
  • 12-06-2013, 01:53 PM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    I'd support "best interest of the child".

    Are you forgetting or ignoring the concept of "status quo"? Believe it or not, that's in place for the wellbeing of the child.

    Status Quo, in the event of unmarried parents has been used negatively against the 'male' for a long time. While i believe, it has more benefits then faults, i believe taking a 1yr old baby and saying "Mom had custody for that year" and deciding the next 18yrs on that is a bit of failed logic.

    Status quo, isn't a bad system, but doesn't work in the cases of 'keep away parents' and actually is the complete opposite of the common court belief that the primary parent should try to 'foster a relationship between the child and the non-primary parent' because, the primary parent is too busy establishing 'status quo' to foster that relationship.
  • 12-06-2013, 02:04 PM
    mmmagique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    I think he's talking about M's forum. Which, incidentally, rarely uses an IP ban

    I know. But he was on the dad's forum talking about the free advice place.
  • 12-06-2013, 02:45 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    Quote:

    Quoting SuperPop
    View Post
    Status Quo, in the event of unmarried parents has been used negatively against the 'male' for a long time. While i believe, it has more benefits then faults, i believe taking a 1yr old baby and saying "Mom had custody for that year" and deciding the next 18yrs on that is a bit of failed logic.

    Status quo, isn't a bad system, but doesn't work in the cases of 'keep away parents' and actually is the complete opposite of the common court belief that the primary parent should try to 'foster a relationship between the child and the non-primary parent' because, the primary parent is too busy establishing 'status quo' to foster that relationship.


    The fact remains that if you want a decent shot, you need to be married to Mom or have already been utilizing a 50/50 timeshare.

    Being married when you conceive and have the child carries a hell of a lot more protection than not being married to the Mother.

    When you're married there is an automatic presumption of paternity. Being unwed, there is not. The unwed father must first establish paternity before he even has standing to file.

    So let's say that on average it takes 6 months to establish paternity in an unwed situation. That newborn has spent the entire six months in Mom's care and knows no different.

    Is it truly in the child's best interest to have his life disrupted in a manner that can cause serious problems later on (for the child)? How is that in his best interest?

    We're talking about infants here. And while there are genuine cases where the primary is suddenly incapable of maintaining that status quo, that's not too common at all.

    The logic: In an unwed situation where the minor child has spent the majority of time with one parent, happy settled and thriving, why is disrupting his schedule so drastically in his best interests? And yes, that goes for both genders.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting mmmagique
    View Post
    I know. But he was on the dad's forum talking about the free advice place.



    Tru, dat!
  • 12-06-2013, 02:51 PM
    SuperPop
    Re: Maryland Custody
    That's why i talk so much about 'step up' plans. I agree, sorta, that it would not be in the best interests of a child to suddenly be taken away from the primary parent 50% of the time. But, if a 'step up' plan, the change is more natural, more gradual, it gives the child the chance to get used to the new situation.
  • 12-06-2013, 03:09 PM
    Dogmatique
    Re: Maryland Custody
    So we fall back to status quo.

    One parent has status quo. Again, why is it the child's best interest to change things at all?

    And that's not even touching the subject of age.

    The reality is that a true 50/50 timeshare is simply not commonly ordered over the wishes of the primary parent. Even during an initial custody determination, the general stance is that 50/50 ONLY works when both parents agree and are capable of working it out. A 50/50 timeshare will only work if and when both parents are okay with it. Ordering it against the wishes of one parent rarely ends well. The courts recognize this.
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