What to Expect from a Shoplifting Diversion Program in Michigan

My question involves criminal law for the state of: Michigan

Hello, a couple of months ago I was caught for shoplifting less than $70 worth of items from a local Meijer. All items were returned and I paid the civil demand of $200 promptly and was very cooperative. As a result, I've just gotten a letter in the mail from the prosecutor saying I have an appointment for diversion in 20 days. Honestly, I didn't expect Meijer to go any further or file a police report at all. I was not arrested and no police were called at the time.... so I continued to use marijuana. I have since stopped (obviously) and am doing my best to get clean for my first appointment. My questions are:

1.) Will I be asked to submit to a drug test at my initial appointment?
2.) What happens if I fail the first? Several county sites (Ingham's site gives no info...grr...) say that if I were to fail the first, it would not be turned over to the court and I could still complete the program as long as I did not continue to use.
3.) Should I be honest about my usage or should I try to pass the test by cheating or diluting? Will someone watch me drop?
4.) If I do get into the diversion program (and I hope to God I do) what should I expect in terms of time commitment, community service and fines?
5.) If I do get into the program, will I be able to move counties?
6.) What happens if I don't get into it in terms of prosecution?

If you are using illegal drugs, stop. Nobody here can promise you that you won't get caught, and nobody here can promise you that your probation officer will be forgiving. We also have no way of knowing what the probation office knows or suspects about your use of drugs. You can count on a drop for probation being monitored. Nobody here is going to tell you to use drugs then try to cheat the test, assuming a test is even administered.

As diversion programs vary by county, you will have to investigate the cost and terms for whatever county is involved in your case.

You can speak with the probation department about moving to another county while on diversion or probation.

If you're not accepted into a diversion program, you will continue to be prosecuted for your crime.

Ingham County is a bitch to deal with.

Stop using marijuana. A drug test is like this: You go to a place; you leave your coat, purse, etc in a box in a room. You are frisked. You go into the bathroom with the cup they issue you. You have 5 minutes to pee. The color and temperature is recorded. And then sent for testing. So don't even think diluting is an option.

Diversion.....if you get a diversion program, you can count on 40+ hours of community service and paying basically $10/hr for your supervision at that program. Do a good job, because they can kick you out and have your diversion screwed.

If you get diversion/probation, you can move - but you have to ask the court to have your case transferred. If no, then you will have to return to Ingham to finish the Community Service part.

1.) Probably.

2.) A positive result could be reported-that depends on the court.

3.) Be honest. Attempting to cheat or dilute the sample will be detected and will most likely get you kicked out of Diversion. You might even get new charges. Drug testing is what Pandora mentioned, plus this: toilet tank is sealed and you are not allowed to flush the toilet or use the sink (if one is in the restroom). If the drop is not observed, the technician/officer monitoring the test will be standing right outside the door. Otherwise, they'll be in there observing you. Anything other than a clean test result can count against you. Do not think you'll pull one on your probation officer. They deal with druggies every day and know the tricks folks try to foil the test.

Yep, I forgot to mention that. You are lucky if you even get toilet paper in that room. The toilet cannot be flushed, you cannot wash your hands until you hand that sample over, and the toilet is inspected. There is no trash can in the room either.

There are three rooms: The one where you stash your coat, purse, etc. Another where you give your ID, paperwork. You also in this room wash your hands and dry them (under supervision). You are frisked. Then you are handed The Cup. You are then escorted to the bathroom. 5 minutes. With someone standing outside. Again, you cannot wipe (If you're a woman, you shake the dew off the lily pad), flush, or wash your hands. You simply open the door, hand over your sample. THEY will flush the toilet after looking into it. Then you can wash your hands.

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And from experience....

I got lucky because I was in a back brace. So I got to help at Goodwill. If you are a male, it will be physical labor.

Thanks guys. I'm not too worried about failing the test, I'm pretty sure I can get it out of my system by then...and as I mentioned before, I'm pretty dumb for shoplifting in the first place, but I'm not dumb enough to continue smoking when I know I have a test coming up. Come on.

Pandorasbox--do you mind telling me what you got diversion for? Was it shoplifting? How much community service did you get? Do you think they will go easier on me since the cost of what I took is so low? I'm honestly surprised they're doing anything at all...I know someone who got her charges dropped and she took 3x as much as I did.

Next...if I do end up getting prosecuted for failing the test....does that mean there's no chance for me of getting the charges removed from my record? I know there's that Youth Training Act. I have a friend on it right now and her charges are waaaaaaaaaaay more serious than mine. I just don't want jail time over something this ridiculous. :(

What's ridiculous is your thinking that you have any entitlement at all to steal, use illegal drugs, and still come out of it with a clean record.

Tell me, what WOULD justify jail time in your opinion? How many laws should you be allowed to break before you have to suffer some consequences for it? How much should you be allowed to steal before the store is allowed to take action to stop you?

Jail time? Probably a crime that is actually violent. Do I need to show you the statistics? As for my use of "Drugs" AKA marijuana, which was just voted to be decriminalized in my city, HELL NO I don't think that deserves jail time. It's a victimless crime. I've got a clean record, which would be why they offered me diversion in the first place. Also it was my first time stealing and I'd never do it again. I suffer from manic depression and if you don't know how it feels then I don't want to hear anything from you. People do things they would NEVER normally do when they're manic. Not that I have to justify any of my actions to you, CBG. :)

What I did a Diversion for: I had a car accident. BAC was 0.00%, same with urine tests. BUT...when I asked the police officer to find my phone in my car, he opened the console. I had a 50 ml bottle of brandy in there from the holiday season, which was opened and half full. So "Open Container" charge, $400+, 40 hours community service. I was still in a TOS back brace, so they let me do that at Goodwill on Cedar St. Since you're in better physical health than I was - don't think you are going to get THAT lucky.

Nope. Just to the judge and the probation officer. If you don't like being judged, well, guess what judges do for a living?

Well it's a good thing they're much more qualified than you, Mr. Knowitall. It wouldn't make much sense to spend money and put a non-violent, first time offender in the slammer when all they've cost anyone has been paid back tenfold. Save your finger-strength for someone whose actually gonna buy your bull and quit patrolling my thread. With all the crap people get let off the hook for (my neighbors got out of jail-time and they had a meth house!), I'm not really concerned, I just wanted to know the other possible outcomes. Anyone capable of doing research knows my chances of getting time are extremely slim.

And Thanks again, Pandorasbox. I don't think i'd get something that cushy either, but I wasn't really worried about the actual labor, just the amount of time I could get. I could easily knock out 40 hours...not planning on moving for at least 6 months.

It would not take much sense to not use illegal drugs and steal however that seems beyond many people also. Unfortunately, you cannot fix stupid. You can only prosecute it.

One of my best friends suffers from manic depression, so yes, I'm familiar with what can happen.

Funny thing, though; she's never broken the law while she's in a manic state. She's done some pretty strange things, but she's never stolen anything. And if she did, she wouldn't use her illness as an excuse to be exempted from the consequences.

Well good thing were in agreement about what does and doesn't make sense then! People make mistakes and every person who suffers from a mental illness suffers differently. That's all I really have to say about that.... Unfortunately your friend can't be the spokesperson for every person with md. The fact that me being prosecuted is even a thing we're talking about is kinda off point because it's not likely to happen. There's almost no chance of me not getting diversion. And I'm sorry, but you guys can be the "better people" all you want. Our morals aren't the same. That's cool. That's not what I started this thread to talk about yet it's almost all I'm getting.

At least you acknowledge that we're the better people.

I'm very grateful that I , and most people, have more morals than you. Perhaps if you, and others like you, DID get prosecuted, there'd be less of a mentality of "I can't be punished because...."

Being a good person in terms of the law is SO different than being a good person period. Youre obviously too dense to see that.if you think smoking pot or petty theft from corporations is so terrible, I really do think you'll have a lot to explain if there's a judgment day that actually matters.

You just keep believing that.

Thou Shall Not Steal is one of the Big Ten, as I recall.

Quote:

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Quoting pgfm

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Being a good person in terms of the law is SO different than being a good person period. Youre obviously too dense to see that.if you think smoking pot or petty theft from corporations is so terrible, I really do think you'll have a lot to explain if there's a judgment day that actually matters.

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I'll guarantee that if it was your store and you caught an arrogant little punk stealing from you, you'd be the first to cry "PUNISH HIM!".

Good grief child.

I was also caught shoplifting 4.5 years ago. Since I had the Diversion for the Open Container, I did not qualify for it this time.

I had been living with my elderly grandmother, playing CareGiver to her, she was not the sweet little old lady that people associate with the term "Grandmother" - she was emotionally and verbally abusive. I wanted out. BUT....I would have faced charges for Elder Abandonment at that point. However, she always said if I did anything wrong she could kick me out.....not that it excuses what I did, but that is why I did it.

After lawyer, court costs, fines....$2000+. And....4.5 years later, it continues to screw up my job options. I tried for a simple Data Entry job earlier this year, blew them away with the Microsoft Word and Excel testing - guess why they did not hire me? Because of the criminal history. Employers want to know what the original charge was, and the final deposition (Disorderly Person, for me).

Trust me...once you see how much of a mess it makes your life - you hopefully will learn from the experience and not do it again. I am so super cautious when in a store - oops, I went in for 2 items, but found stuff on sale...I'd better go get a cart, and let the greeter know I am leaving my stuff on a nearby display while I get the cart.

I had a trip to Florida, and guess what - my flip flop broke. I limped into WalMart with a very broken shoe, found a new pair, and limped to the nearest cash register, where I then proceeded to pay and then ask the cashier for scissors so I could wear them out of the store, receipt in hand the whole time.

You bet I do not put anything except my purse in the top of the cart. Nothing can get lost under it. If I buy a jewelry item, I pay at the jewelry counter, no carrying it around with me to the main registers.

Actually, the possibility of jail time is very real-IF you don't do exactly as probation and the Diversion program dictate. I was up in court this morning and the judge issued a bench warrant for a defendant who failed to appear for his hearing. There are judges and probation officers who will throw the book at you if you don't toe the line. Cost isn't a concern-maintaining the authority of the Court is. Also, in many jurisdictions the defendant is required to pay for the costs of the probation and any related incarceration.

Theft from a corporation is no different than theft from a person. You're not only stealing from the business-you're stealing from every customer that patronizes that business.