Using Character Witnesses in a Custody Case

My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Florida

My husband is entering a custody case that has already gotten quite complicated. I have a few questions for his benefit. I know I cannot do anything legally, please forgive me if I am doing something wrong by asking on his behalf.

So my husband really needs character witnesses/statements. In this case, the father wants 65% custody until the mother can get a job and live in a home where she can provide for the child adequately for 50/50 time sharing. He's already overly scrutinized by judges so his case wont be easy.
1. Can he subpoena someone without needing an attorney?
1a Can he serve someone who will accept it without doubt, without an officer? Or is the officer required?

2. Can he subpoena from the mother any records for the child's health such as hospital visits?
2a What about interrogatories, are those useful in a custody case without a lawyer? He would like to know what she's claiming her job history is.

3. For witnesses who do not require a subpoena, is it possible for him to submit a list of witnesses to the clerk to be heard on the day of? Is there a deadline?

4. For witnesses who do not require a subpoena, and those that would rather write a character statement, is there a dead line for these?
4a If a witness wishes to make a statement to the judge in a letter, will the mother see it for sure? Will the judge mention who a certain letter was from and confront her about it? I have one person who is the brother of her fiance, who would write a letter to the judge saying that they are both known to be addicted to drugs and have since been ostracized from the family for it, but refuses to write to the judge for fear that the mother in the case will spitefully do something to him or his family(and its not unwarranted fear). How can he write a letter to the judge without the mother knowing?

5. When will a judge want to speak to a minor? Or would they just appoint someone to speak with them? The child is 10. In the court there will be accusations of drug use, mental abuse, and alienation to an extreme.

6. Can a step parent be a witness? What about character statements/letters to the judge? Should a step parent be involved at all in this case as far as testifying or giving any information? Trying to learn where I really belong.
I might have more but these are the most pressing to us.

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Quoting marshasayshow

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My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Florida

My husband is entering a custody case that has already gotten quite complicated. I have a few questions for his benefit. I know I cannot do anything legally, please forgive me if I am doing something wrong by asking on his behalf.

So my husband really needs character witnesses/statements. In this case, the father wants 65% custody until the mother can get a job and live in a home where she can provide for the child adequately for 50/50 time sharing. He's already overly scrutinized by judges so his case wont be easy.
1. Can he subpoena someone without needing an attorney?
1a Can he serve someone who will accept it without doubt, without an officer? Or is the officer required?

2. Can he subpoena from the mother any records for the child's health such as hospital visits?
2a What about interrogatories, are those useful in a custody case without a lawyer? He would like to know what she's claiming her job history is.

3. For witnesses who do not require a subpoena, is it possible for him to submit a list of witnesses to the clerk to be heard on the day of? Is there a deadline?

4. For witnesses who do not require a subpoena, and those that would rather write a character statement, is there a dead line for these?
4a If a witness wishes to make a statement to the judge in a letter, will the mother see it for sure? Will the judge mention who a certain letter was from and confront her about it? I have one person who is the brother of her fiance, who would write a letter to the judge saying that they are both known to be addicted to drugs and have since been ostracized from the family for it, but refuses to write to the judge for fear that the mother in the case will spitefully do something to him or his family(and its not unwarranted fear). How can he write a letter to the judge without the mother knowing?

5. When will a judge want to speak to a minor? Or would they just appoint someone to speak with them? The child is 10. In the court there will be accusations of drug use, mental abuse, and alienation to an extreme.

6. Can a step parent be a witness? What about character statements/letters to the judge? Should a step parent be involved at all in this case as far as testifying or giving any information? Trying to learn where I really belong.
I might have more but these are the most pressing to us.

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Letters and written statements are not going to be useful at all. The people would have to be present to testify in person. If somehow a judge allowed a letter or statement to be put into evidence, then EVERYBODY gets to see exactly what the letter or statement says.

I am also getting the sneaking suspicion, from what little has been said, that dad might be thinking that some things are important or will help him, when the issues are not important at all.

Thanks for the answer on questions regarding character statements.
Yes we have both been informed that the judge wont care about a lot of things that he thinks are important, due to emotional involvement it makes it harder for him to decide what he should and shouldn't say. Please let me know if you see something that isn't relevant.

Do you have any answers to the other questions such as Who can and can't be a witness in a custody case? Such as a step parent?

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Quoting llworking

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If somehow a judge allowed a letter or statement to be put into evidence

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How would he go about putting such information into evidence and getting approval for it?

Stepparents are hardly impartial. Seriously though, witnesses are not what he should focus on.

The court cannot force Mom to get a job, and he won't get custody based on that. What's more important is, who has been the child's primary caregiver? If Mom has been a stay-at-home parent, she has a massive advantage over Dad.

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Quoting marshasayshow

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How would he go about putting such information into evidence and getting approval for it?

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It's not going to happen. A piece of paper cannot be cross-examined.

The mother hasn't had a job in Florida for about 3 years or more now. The grandmother has housed the mother since the child was born (10 years). The mother and father were both young and lived with their parents when the baby was born. The grandmother has taken care of the child most of the time, and the mother would leave the child with her for days at a time while she was with a boyfriend. The grandmother is pretty bitter about the fact that she's had to care for the child this whole time, but also was keeping the child from the father. The father now works at home, and so do I. So we have two incomes, we both are home ALL the time... we have a big family for her to be involved in, her grades have plummeted the past two years that she's lived with her mother and grandmother and its looking like she might not make it to the next grade.

What do you want to use character evidence for? What are you trying to prove with it?

That the father deserves 65% custody for now

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Quoting marshasayshow

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1. Can he subpoena someone without needing an attorney?
1a Can he serve someone who will accept it without doubt, without an officer? Or is the officer required?

2. Can he subpoena from the mother any records for the child's health such as hospital visits?
2a What about interrogatories, are those useful in a custody case without a lawyer? He would like to know what she's claiming her job history is.

3. For witnesses who do not require a subpoena, is it possible for him to submit a list of witnesses to the clerk to be heard on the day of? Is there a deadline?


5. When will a judge want to speak to a minor? Or would they just appoint someone to speak with them? The child is 10. In the court there will be accusations of drug use, mental abuse, and alienation to an extreme.

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I still would love some answers to these questions, if anyone knows the answers? :D

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Also, when a mother and a boyfriend fight in front of the child(physically hitting each other in the face), what should the father do about it when he hears about it? Can he do anything?

Why is he so focused on her job history?

Seriously - it's a non-issue.

Given what Dad appears to be trying to do, he needs an attorney. Otherwise he's at risk of completely messing this up.

The child should NOT be brought into this as a witness. At all.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Why is he so focused on her job history?

Seriously - it's a non-issue.

Given what Dad appears to be trying to do, he needs an attorney. Otherwise he's at risk of completely messing this up.

The child should NOT be brought into this as a witness. At all.

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Why doesn't it matter that the mother provides 0% support while the father provides his 50%?

Regarding him 'doing it wrong, could you please consider answering anyway? He can figure out how to do it on his own, or could you at least assume he will do it right and just tell us if its possible? I'd really appreciate it... :o

She IS providing support. Dad just appears to be ignoring the legality of it.

Once you start getting into subpoenas, you're wandering into territory that can sink your entire case if you're not careful. Given that he's asking what are essentially very basic questions, I'm not sure he can adequately represent himself. If he's to do it successfully, he's going to be spending a lot of time learning the rules of civil procedure, the local rules, and basically taking a crash course in custody matters.

Maybe someone else will take him through it step by step.

I don't want a step by step, we need to know Yes or No is it possible. It seems possible, but it seems like no one wants to help or answer due to there being money in this question.

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3. For witnesses who do not require a subpoena, is it possible for him to submit a list of witnesses to the clerk to be heard on the day of? Is there a deadline?


Still need an answer for this one, please! :)

Money? What the heck are you talking about?

3. HE NEEDS TO GO DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE AND OBTAIN A COPY OF THEIR RULES.

Basically every single question can be answered "Maybe - it depends".

Hence the legally accurate and timely advice, of "He needs an attorney".

:cool:

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Quoting marshasayshow

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I don't want a step by step, we need to know Yes or No is it possible. It seems possible, but it seems like no one wants to help or answer due to there being money in this question.

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3. For witnesses who do not require a subpoena, is it possible for him to submit a list of witnesses to the clerk to be heard on the day of? Is there a deadline?


Still need an answer for this one, please! :)

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What specific fact are you trying to prove through the use of character evidence? I understand you want 65%. What will you have them testify to?

http://swansonlawcenter.com/article/file/18/Pretrial_disclosure_of_Witnesses.pdf

http://www.floridabar.org/TFB/TFBResources.nsf/Attachments/416879C4A88CBF0485256B29004BFAF8/$FILE/311%20Family%20Law.pdf?OpenElement

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Quoting Dogmatique

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3. HE NEEDS TO GO DOWN TO THE COURTHOUSE AND OBTAIN A COPY OF THEIR RULES.

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Awesome, thank you soooo much for this answer I had no idea that they had a set of rules for this. ( ok that sounded really sarcastic but I promise I'm not being sarcastic lol)
Is there any way that its online? Does this set of rules have a formal name?

In addition to the specific answer to your question in the first link above, the "rules" are in the second link. Then there are the local rules that would depend on the specific court and the local local rules and/or the "rules" of the case the judge gave you in pre-trial orders or were supplied with notice by the particular judge.

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Quoting Welfarelvr

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What specific fact are you trying to prove through the use of character evidence? I understand you want 65%. What will you have them testify to?

http://swansonlawcenter.com/article/..._Witnesses.pdf

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I think I should mention this. They did go to a 15 min hearing with a judge for temp visitation until the actual trial in January. During this 15 minutes the mother stated that the father has no been involved in his daughters life and has shown 0 interest in being involved. This is a huge lie, and we have so many witenesses who will state that the father went out of his way to see his child as well as was kept from his child. For years our family and friends watched as he was told excuses like the weather or school, to keep the father away.

I know I know that the father was technically lucky to see his daugther before the paternity was established in October, but the main issue here is that he mother is getting special treatment by this judge based on the false fact that the father hasn't been involved. We want to disprove that as well as prove that the mother is not a willing party to share custody, in fact she told the father that if he didn't drop the case ALL TOGETHER and give her 100% custody, that she would file a false abuse report under his daughters name. (nothing has been filed, but it was a threat)

He wants to prove that he's stable, where she is not, (Mentally and socially) such as the daughters failing grades in FCAT and unattended allergies.

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Quoting marshasayshow

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I think I should mention this. They did go to a 15 min hearing with a judge for temp visitation until the actual trial in January. During this 15 minutes the mother stated that the father has no been involved in his daughters life and has shown 0 interest in being involved. This is a huge lie, and we have so many witenesses who will state that the father went out of his way to see his child as well as was kept from his child. For years our family and friends watched as he was told excuses like the weather or school, to keep the father away.

I know I know that the father was technically lucky to see his daugther before the paternity was established in October, but the main issue here is that he mother is getting special treatment by this judge based on the false fact that the father hasn't been involved. We want to disprove that as well as prove that the mother is not a willing party to share custody, in fact she told the father that if he didn't drop the case ALL TOGETHER and give her 100% custody, that she would file a false abuse report under his daughters name. (nothing has been filed, but it was a threat)

He wants to prove that he's stable, where she is not, (Mentally and socially) such as the daughters failing grades in FCAT and unattended allergies.

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A witness can testify to facts they know. Expert witnesses can testify to their opinion. You are not getting character evidence. You are trying to prove facts on which character may be inferred by the fact finder.

You can have a person testify she saw father call on date 1, date 2, date 3 and sent a card on birthday, Christmas and first communion. You can not have a person testify he loves his child. You can have a person testify he has a job, goes to church, coaches a team and has a home. You can not have a person testify he is stable.

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/evi...h-as-evid.html
http://www.ckcattorneys.com/characte...riminal-cases/

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Quoting marshasayshow

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I think I should mention this. They did go to a 15 min hearing with a judge for temp visitation until the actual trial in January. During this 15 minutes the mother stated that the father has no been involved in his daughters life and has shown 0 interest in being involved. This is a huge lie, and we have so many witenesses who will state that the father went out of his way to see his child as well as was kept from his child. For years our family and friends watched as he was told excuses like the weather or school, to keep the father away.

I know I know that the father was technically lucky to see his daugther before the paternity was established in October, but the main issue here is that he mother is getting special treatment by this judge based on the false fact that the father hasn't been involved. We want to disprove that as well as prove that the mother is not a willing party to share custody, in fact she told the father that if he didn't drop the case ALL TOGETHER and give her 100% custody, that she would file a false abuse report under his daughters name. (nothing has been filed, but it was a threat)

He wants to prove that he's stable, where she is not, (Mentally and socially) such as the daughters failing grades in FCAT and unattended allergies.

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Honestly, the only kinds of witnesses that would be truly useful are people who would be considered to be unbiased. Family and friends could easily lie for someone.

The judge most likely believed mom because dad did not bother to even establish paternity until recently.

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Quoting Welfarelvr

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A witness can testify to facts they know. Expert witnesses can testify to their opinion. You are not getting character evidence. You are trying to prove facts on which character may be inferred by the fact finder.

You can have a person testify she saw father call on date 1, date 2, date 3 and sent a card on birthday, Christmas and first communion. You can not have a person testify he loves his child. You can have a person testify he has a job, goes to church, coaches a team and has a home. You can not have a person testify he is stable.

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My grandmother tutored the daughter and found she was really behind, could she testify that the daughter has not been properly guided in her school work?

What are grandma's qualifications? If she is qualified, how much time did she spend assessing the daughter? Based on which criteria?

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Might the daughter have a previously undiagnosed learning disability?

I doubt it, no , she's a smart kid by nature that hasn't been nurtured

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Quoting marshasayshow

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I doubt it, no , she's a smart kid by nature that hasn't been nurtured

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It was the first set of questions that was the important part.

I forgot to answer, she was a teacher for some 40 years and worked at the county school location in downtown, where she held conferences and "taught" other teachers. I'm not sure of her title I could find out but she's never been an expert witness before

Dad may well have a hard time getting her testimony in. Mom will likely disagree that she's an expert witness, and you still haven't told us whether kiddo was actually formally assessed, what the criteria were or whether it was simply Grandma sharing her teaching experience.

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And really, a learning disability cannot be ruled out at this point.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Dad may well have a hard time getting her testimony in. Mom will likely disagree that she's an expert witness, and you still haven't told us whether kiddo was actually formally assessed, what the criteria were or whether it was simply Grandma sharing her teaching experience.

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Grandma sharing her teaching experience so far - plus her FCAT scores (1 math 2 reading)
No she hasn't been formally assessed other than her assessment tests in school.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Dad may well have a hard time getting her testimony in. Mom will likely disagree that she's an expert witness, and you still haven't told us whether kiddo was actually formally assessed, what the criteria were or whether it was simply Grandma sharing her teaching experience.

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And really, a learning disability cannot be ruled out at this point.

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How would we go about getting her an assessment?

I disagree with Dogmatique on if grandmother could be considered an expert to give her opinion that daughter is behind those of her age. I think the problem would be trying to link it to mother's actions. She would not have a valid opinion there.

It seems there is just stabbing in the dark going on. Get an attorney as a judge is not going to allow a bunch of testimony directed by people who do not know what they are doing.

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Quoting Welfarelvr

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I disagree with Dogmatique on if grandmother could be considered an expert to give her opinion that daughter is behind those of her age. I think the problem would be trying to link it to mother's actions. She would not have a valid opinion there.

It seems there is just stabbing in the dark going on. Get an attorney as a judge is not going to allow a bunch of testimony directed by people who do not know what they are doing.

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We literally have no way to get one.

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Quoting Welfarelvr

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I disagree with Dogmatique on if grandmother could be considered an expert to give her opinion that daughter is behind those of her age. I think the problem would be trying to link it to mother's actions. She would not have a valid opinion there.

It seems there is just stabbing in the dark going on. Get an attorney as a judge is not going to allow a bunch of testimony directed by people who do not know what they are doing.

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Also I'm not sure if you care but the judge appointed made statements before she was elected that she was concerned about the way the court treated individuals without lawyers, that had to represent themselves. Can we assume that the judge will accept the witnesses?

I'm still not sure what anyone thinks a bus load of character witnesses will accomplish. Custody gets changed based on changes in the child's circumstances. Moses, Mohammad, and JFK could take the stand and tell the court what a stand up guy dad is, and it wouldn't impact anything WITHOUT there ALSO being pertinent circumstances pointing to a change being in the best interest of the child. Dad needs to focus on what the COURT cares about. And it's NOT character witnesses.

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Quoting aardvarc

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I'm still not sure what anyone thinks a bus load of character witnesses will accomplish. Custody gets changed based on changes in the child's circumstances. Moses, Mohammad, and JFK could take the stand and tell the court what a stand up guy dad is, and it wouldn't impact anything WITHOUT there ALSO being pertinent circumstances pointing to a change being in the best interest of the child. Dad needs to focus on what the COURT cares about. And it's NOT character witnesses.

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So i've been told that jobs don't matter, income does'nt matter, stability doesnt matter, character statements don't matter...

what DOES matter?

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Quoting marshasayshow

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So i've been told that jobs don't matter, income does'nt matter, stability doesnt matter, character statements don't matter...

what DOES matter?

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Reality is, "status quo" is preferred by far in custody issues. While it's not necessarily a guarantee, the courts will generally want to disrupt the child's life as little as possible.

Outside of obvious neglect and/or abuse, the parent with the background of being the primary caregiver stands a much better chance.

Dad is not equal to Mom at this stage in the game.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Reality is, "status quo" is preferred by far in custody issues. While it's not necessarily a guarantee, the courts will generally want to disrupt the child's life as little as possible.

Outside of obvious neglect and/or abuse, the parent with the background of being the primary caregiver stands a much better chance.

Dad is not equal to Mom at this stage in the game.

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It seems every one ignores the part where we mention the father was kept from his daughter for years, played and manipulated, controlled and told he was powerless. Lead to believe that he couldn't do anything more to see his daughter and that the court would laugh at him for wanting time sharing..

Now he's in good standing and feels he has a right to have some time with her.

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Quoting marshasayshow

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It seems every one ignores the part where we mention the father was kept from his daughter for years, played and manipulated, controlled and told he was powerless. Lead to believe that he couldn't do anything more to see his daughter and that the court would laugh at him for wanting time sharing..

Now he's in good standing and feels he has a right to have some time with her.

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That's not what you've portrayed here. You started off saying he wants primary custody. Nobody is going to laugh at him for wanting enforceable time with his child.

It's nobody else's fault that Dad didn't explore his options fully for those years.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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That's not what you've portrayed here. You started off saying he wants primary custody. Nobody is going to laugh at him for wanting enforceable time with his child.

It's nobody else's fault that Dad didn't explore his options fully for those years.

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He can accept that, as he was young while the child was growing up.
But that doesn't change that he's advanced in life while the mother has literally stayed in the same situation for the past 10 years, will the judge really not care about this ?

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I forgot to say also that yes he wants 65% custody, he is more equipped to help her with school, is more likely to share time with the children to the other parent, has a better mental health situation at the moment, cares more about her education, and health.

The judge is looking for change. Mom's not legally obliged to work, advance herself or anything of that nature. And on paper, it appears she's done an adequate job. If Dad wanted to be on equal ground with Mom, he needed to have taken action long before now. It's not about who is "better" at this point.

Let's face it, custody isn't always "fair" to the parents...but then it's not about being fair to the parents. So, what we have is Mom who has status quo on her side, and the child isn't abused or damaged. Failing grades can be explained by a whole heap of things. And we have Dad who really hasn't - on paper - done a heck of a lot in terms of making sure his child is okay.

Y'know?

Please give me a list of things that the judge Will look at for deciding which parent is better established for being the custodial parent

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Quoting marshasayshow

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Please give me a list of things that the judge Will look at for deciding which parent is better established for being the custodial parent

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Let's try again.

The acceptable standard of parenting is depressingly low. As long as the child is fed, clothed and housed that's really all that is needed. It doesn't matter if Mom is living with the child's grandparents, married to Bill Gates or anything else - the court doesn't really care about the source of the parent's support system as long as the child is indeed being supported.

The longer the child lives with one parent, the less chance there is of modifying custody in favor of the other parent (abuse and neglect notwithstanding).

Reasons to change, assuming that Mom is primary at the moment:

Child is obviously abused and/or neglected

Mom marries the local pedophile

Mom is incarcerated for an extended period

Mom wants to move - with the child - to a teeny country to shack up with her Internet boyfriend and the rest of his harem

Mom relocates out of state (though this is absolutely state-dependent; some states are far more relocation-friendly than others)

The child is obviously out of control (this one is a grey area)


See what we're saying here?

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Let's try again.

The acceptable standard of parenting is depressingly low. As long as the child is fed, clothed and housed that's really all that is needed. It doesn't matter if Mom is living with the child's grandparents, married to Bill Gates or anything else - the court doesn't really care about the source of the parent's support system as long as the child is indeed being supported.

The longer the child lives with one parent, the less chance there is of modifying custody in favor of the other parent (abuse and neglect notwithstanding).

Reasons to change, assuming that Mom is primary at the moment:

Child is obviously abused and/or neglected

Mom marries the local pedophile

Mom is incarcerated for an extended period

Mom wants to move - with the child - to a teeny country to shack up with her Internet boyfriend and the rest of his harem

Mom relocates out of state (though this is absolutely state-dependent; some states are far more relocation-friendly than others)

The child is obviously out of control (this one is a grey area)


See what we're saying here?

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The ones bolded are the ones that are true in this case.

And where exactly is Mom wanting to relocate with the child?

Please explain how the child is legally neglected or abused.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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And where exactly is Mom wanting to relocate with the child?

Please explain how the child is legally neglected or abused.

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Mom wants to locate to Colorado, no family is there.

The child witnesses the mother physically abuse her mother and fiance. The child is mentally abused, by being told she's going to lose her father, and that the father is going to go to jail.

Not sure if this counts, but the child is also not given any allergy medication since she has been diagnosed in the fathers care this summer. The mother completely denies that she has any issues or needs it and claims that the child is only ever sick at his house. Every time we pick the child up from her mothers location, she sounds as if she needs an entire box of tissues to herself, when she goes home she's clear as a whistle. It's gotten so bad that the child will try really hard not to sniffle or sneeze in the car ride home with us when we pick her up, but after a few minutes she forgets and lets loose.

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Quoting marshasayshow

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Mom wants to locate to Colorado, no family is there.

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Okay - THAT is where Dad might succeed far more than anywhere else. You're all in Florida, yes? Here's the FL statute:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...061.13001.html

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The child witnesses the mother physically abuse her mother and fiance. The child is mentally abused, by being told she's going to lose her father, and that the father is going to go to jail.

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Given that there's no actual evidence, this is a moot point.

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Not sure if this counts, but the child is also not given any allergy medication since she has been diagnosed in the fathers care this summer. The mother completely denies that she has any issues or needs it and claims that the child is only ever sick at his house. Every time we pick the child up from her mothers location, she sounds as if she needs an entire box of tissues to herself, when she goes home she's clear as a whistle. It's gotten so bad that the child will try really hard not to sniffle or sneeze in the car ride home with us when we pick her up, but after a few minutes she forgets and lets loose.

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Okay - I'm really NOT trying to be snarky here, k? But I have two grandkids who are horribly sensitive to...car air fresheners, and certain fragrances.

Let's investigate this further though. How was she diagnosed, and with what?