Carrying a Gun on School Property

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Quoting PADriver13

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Couldn't a tax payer claim that he has an inherent right to be on school property just because he pays taxes to the district?

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and I can be in the post office at midnight and in the judges chambers at the courthouse just because I want to see them, of course without him being there.


that argument sounds a lot like the argument often told police:

I pay your salary (because you pay taxes)


NO, it gives you no right to be in the school grounds, EVER.

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Quoting jk

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NO, it gives you no right to be in the school grounds, EVER.

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Understood (and agree), but again, I'm not talking about being inside the gym at 2:30am. I am simply referring to traveling across public roads that go through school property. I am not referring to wearing a gun on my hip to a soccer game. I am more concerned about traveling across the grounds on the way between Point A and Point B, that's all. Guess I will keep waiting for someone ELSE to test this one out.

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Quoting PADriver13

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Understood (and agree), but again, I'm not talking about being inside the gym at 2:30am. I am simply referring to traveling across public roads that go through school property. I am not referring to wearing a gun on my hip to a soccer game. I am more concerned about traveling across the grounds on the way between Point A and Point B, that's all. Guess I will keep waiting for someone ELSE to test this one out.

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neither am I. I am speaking to any right to be anywhere on school grounds. The school is no different than a private person in this situation; just as you at home can control not only you buildings but he entire area of property you own or rent.

and concealed or open does not appear to make an difference in the law.

I think this is definite proof he does not have a CC license. Licensing laws require you are intelligent enough to know where you are not permitted to carry.

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Quoting Disagreeable

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I think this is definite proof he does not have a CC license. Licensing laws require you are intelligent enough to know where you are not permitted to carry.

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Disagreeable - enough with the personal attacks. Obviously I know that schools prohibit firearms (but they'd be safer, in my opinion, if they didn't - Columbine and Sandy Hook and DC Naval Yard were all "gun free" zones - with SIGNS!...didn't work out too well for the victims, did it?). I am asking if the UFA, specifically the "other lawful purposes" clause pertains to the scenario of traveling across the grounds from Point A to Point B. Your comment added nothing to this discussion and was simply a personal attack. I don't really care but typically when I post to forums, I try to stay on topic and not just target others users who I don't know.

In your fanciful scenario, why are you stopped while driving across school property, and how is it determined that you are armed?

I'm stopped for allegedly "rolling" through one of 4 stop signs along a 300 yard strip of road passing in front of one of the school buildings and the officer who cites me notices my range bag setting on the back seat, with the handle of a pistol sticking out from one of the zippers (meanwhile I'm headed straight to the range after dropping off sibling), and decides to take issue. Or "a concerned parent" sees the same range bag while walking past my car in process of dropping sibling off at school. She decides to call 911 MWAG and the police are involved.

I'm trying to argue that - "on school property but it shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose".

My defense is that I had official business on school property - dropping someone off for class, while on the way to a shooting range. That's a lawful purpose.

Or I was in the process of traveling from Point A to Point B - a lawful purpose in and of itself, and decided that the most efficient route between required me to travel across school property.

This is similar in my mind to interstate firearm transportation laws - the premise is built on the fact that as long as an individual travels DIRECTLY from "legal" Point A to "legal" Point B, it is acceptable if their direct travel route goes across areas that would otherwise prohibit such activity.

So you run a stop sign on school property and are found to be armed. You lie to the officer, claiming that you were dropping somebody off. When you go to trial you try to get out of your lie by claiming that you were simply driving through school property as a "short cut" and that they should thus excuse the fact that you were carrying a gun because you believe that's an "other lawful purpose". I would say your odds of acquittal would be a bit less than 1%.

You might have a better chance with the "short cut' argument, but I doubt you'll find a school where that claim is plausible given the layout of the school's driveways, and even if you do the jury would likely be skeptical of your excuse, given that you had no legal right to use school property as a short cut.

To answer the questions without all the ensuing political drivel that has plagued this thread.

18 Pa.C.S. § 912: Possession of weapon on school property
(a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nunchuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.
(b) Offense defined.--A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publicly-funded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.
(c) Defense.--It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.

You also can't bring a gun to court or through airport security.

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Quoting PADriver13

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Understood (and agree), but again, I'm not talking about being inside the gym at 2:30am. I am simply referring to traveling across public roads that go through school property. I am not referring to wearing a gun on my hip to a soccer game. I am more concerned about traveling across the grounds on the way between Point A and Point B, that's all. Guess I will keep waiting for someone ELSE to test this one out.

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Maybe your schools are designed differently in PA, but I cannot fathom a "public roadway" cutting THROUGH the property of a school! Generally, the right to enter onto school grounds is limited and requires permission and can be revoked. If such a roadway exists, so long as you don't get out of your car and wave a gun around, I doubt that it will ever be an issue in the few seconds you would be traveling on a road between buildings or properties.

You seem to be quite eager to push the issue with regards to your handgun ... it seems an almost unhealthy obsession.