Re: Do Officers Have to Stop a Search if They're Asked to Leave Your Property
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Quoting
jk
.so Terry, administrative searches, and all the other recent decisions are not consistent in lowering the bar? I think YOU are the one that is missing what is happening as we are already well onto our way to, no, not despotism but something more akin to an authoritarian government or even a totalitarian government.
hey, we saw the video that was the basis of the claim. Yes, there was very little involved.
The searches you describe are "reasonable" according to US supreme court decisions. Those facts and discussion are irrelevant here. I have no idea why you compare them. I agree we are close to an authoritarian government and understand the difference from despotism. On that point, I semi-agree. We can debate at what point it changes. I do not think us there. Even though the machinery to make it so is being implemented. For the CHILDREN of course.
I did not see the vid. Since you have seemed to be a reasonable person (unlike some others where my polite and referenced disagreements seem to disappear) I cannot disagree without more. I would love actual facts, but understand this is not a job, but an adventure.
Re: Do Officers Have to Stop a Search if They're Asked to Leave Your Property
Either way - I feel the cops over-stepped their legal authority at the yard sale, particularly after they had been told to leave. Substitute the serial #s on the guns for serial #s on XYZ. How about copies of Microsoft Windows or Cutco knives, not the kitchen knives, like the 6" serrated hunting blades, KA-BAR knives, etc. Whatever XYZ is, there is no crime being committed and it is the officer's responsibility to determine that fact without searching thru private property first. What if there were a bunch of electronics for sale (cell phones, a tablet, iPad, or a laptop maybe), would the officers have taken the same initiative to check all the serial #s to ensure that the crime of selling stolen property was not being committed? It's one in the same and allowing this behavior to take place is a slippery slope. A misinformed, "concerned citizen complaint" does not, in my book, equal probably cause of anything or suspicion to search anything. There's nothing to investigate.
Re: Do Officers Have to Stop a Search if They're Asked to Leave Your Property
Feel better now that you have had time to vent and proclaim your interpretation of the Constitution?
Re: Do Officers Have to Stop a Search if They're Asked to Leave Your Property
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Welfarelvr;760002]The searches you describe are "reasonable" according to US supreme court decisions.
they weren't reasonable 60 years ago. That makes them relevant. The SCOTUS decisions are eroding what I hold to be our rights on a regular basis. The SCOTUS is empowering our police forces by continually removing the protections I believe the USC was intended to protect. Eventually they will reach the point where our government will no longer be controlled by our people but our government will be beyond being affected by the average Joe Schmo and will make rules, laws, and policies regardless of the wishes and desires of the masses...
hey, are you sure we aren't there already?
If we accept it, it is authoritarianism. If we are forced, it is totalitarianism.
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Quoting
PADriver13
Either way - I feel the cops over-stepped their legal authority at the yard sale, particularly after they had been told to leave. Substitute the serial #s on the guns for serial #s on XYZ. How about copies of Microsoft Windows or Cutco knives, not the kitchen knives, like the 6" serrated hunting blades, KA-BAR knives, etc. Whatever XYZ is, there is no crime being committed and it is the officer's responsibility to determine that fact without searching thru private property first. What if there were a bunch of electronics for sale (cell phones, a tablet, iPad, or a laptop maybe), would the officers have taken the same initiative to check all the serial #s to ensure that the crime of selling stolen property was not being committed? It's one in the same and allowing this behavior to take place is a slippery slope. A misinformed, "concerned citizen complaint" does not, in my book, equal probably cause of anything or suspicion to search anything. There's nothing to investigate.
what you feel matters not. What the law says matters. Since the facts of the issue necessary to form a dependable opinion are not here, there isn't anything more I can offer as I have speculated my butt off just to get here.
You don't know if they legally overstepped their authority. That means we don't know either. You were given the option available so take your pick and head on out.
Re: Do Officers Have to Stop a Search if They're Asked to Leave Your Property
While selling long guns at a yard sale may be perfectly legal, there is still the potential for illegal activity. You keep saying that the cops came to investigate a legal activity…but, in fact, you really have no idea what the cops came to investigate. The bitties that made the report likely made a report of “illegal gun sales” with little or no further information. That could mean a lot of things. The guns themselves could be illegal to even possess, let alone sell (modifications such as cutting them down to an illegal length, obscuring the serial numbers, or allowing for full-auto fire come immediately to mind). Also, if there was some suspicion that they were stolen, that would be worthy of investigation. I have investigated any number of burglaries where the victims couldn’t even tell me the brand of the TVs or other valuables that were stolen. However, when it comes to firearms, it is quite common that they can give the manufacturer, model number, caliber, serial number, magazine capacity, custom accessories, and even go into detail about that distinctive scratch on the fore-stock. Maybe the bitties claimed that one or more of the guns looked like the rifle their son-in-law had stolen out of his garage two months ago.
So, yes, from the info you have provided, it seems reasonable for the cops to show up and examine the guns (including recording the serial numbers) and NOT an abuse of their authority. However, even if they did overstep, your brother-in-law suffered no loss or damage as a result…and certainly YOU did not. So, you have no basis for any civil action. No state or Federal prosecutor is going to pursue criminal civil rights charges against the officers for such a minor intrusion (if any even occurred). So, your only recourse would be a citizen complaint to the officers agency.