Found Evidence of Accident Damage, Inadequate Repair After Used Car Purchase
My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: Oregon
I recently bought a used vehicle from a dealership, came with 90 day 50/50 warranty. I took the car in the other day to have the breaks checked at a firestone, they called me over during this and showed me some interesting stuff, the rear knuckle on the driver side was the wrong size along with the rotor, due to this no mechanic will replace the breaks since they don't even properly touch the rotor and the current brake pad hangs over the rotor. The mechanic also told me that that parts back there had been replaced with junk yard parts (you can see the labels from the junkyard) and the rear side if you try to stick a magnet to it (which the mechanic did when they saw the parts) it wont stick but the rest of the car the magnet stuck. Its like the whole rear left side was replaced, now I know it doesn't show any accident in the carfax, but the car has clearly been in an accident.
Do I have an rights in this? I know in Oregon a dealer must disclose an accident, but does that apply if it hasn't been reported? Also as it has been 2 months since I bought the car can they use that as an excuse, that I could have done it? If they choose not to help me, would this fall under the 50/50 warranty? And if all fails, do I have a leg to stand on in small claims court?
Overall I wasn't happy with my service with them, they lied to me on a KBB price, they refused to do the recall on my car, even though its an infiniti and this was a nissan dealership, they refused to fix something as simple as a bad light bulb when I bought the car. So I obviously am not happy with them. Any suggestions? Thanks
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
Please explain your reasoning a little. The dealer wasn't aware of the car being in an accident (which you said was not reported). Can you reasonably assume that a car has been in an accident which has not been reported?
Where is the proof there was an accident?
More to the point - and you've brought it up so you're aware of it - how can you prove the car wasn't damaged after the purchase?
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
The proof is the fact there are junk yard parts installed in the car and the knuckle and rotor are the wrong size for the car, and as I said, if you take a magnet to that section of the car its the only place on the car that the magnet won't stick to it, like the section has been replaced.
I guess the best I could do is get the numbers off the parts and attempt to call around and find out which junkyard they came from, and get dates to prove I didn't do it, if I did that would I have a case, or am I still out of luck cause its a used car?
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
Quote:
Quoting
Darcw0lf
The proof is the fact there are junk yard parts installed in the car and the knuckle and rotor are the wrong size for the car, and as I said, if you take a magnet to that section of the car its the only place on the car that the magnet won't stick to it, like the section has been replaced.
so you have proof the were aware of the accident rather than just proof there has been damage that suggests it had been involved in an accident?
and what the heck are you calling a knuckle? the reason the magnet doesnt stick is likely due to there being body filler in that area.
Quote:
they refused to do the recall on my car
if it is due to an actual recall, contact Infiniti and then the NHTSA (federal agency that deals with recalls)
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
parts like that tend to be pretty model specific. Not sure how they would fit an incorrect one but if they did, I guess they did.
so, have you done a Carfax or any similar search to determine if the accident has been reported somewhere along the line?
Can you get a title abstract from the DMV that shows the chain of title, at least for Oregon?
Unless you can prove they were aware of the accident and failed to disclose it, you really cannot win on the argument they failed to disclose it to you. As to anything else; small claims; same issue. You would have to prove they did something wrong.
as to the warranty; check your warranty documents to see what it covers but I would doubt it would cover the knuckle and if it covered the rotor, only if it actually needed to be replaced.
So, time to start looking to see if you can prove any knowledge of the accident.
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
Apparently the hub assembly has been changed. You will either need to buy the brake pads for that side separately or change the hub assembly to match the other side. Body work and brakes are not usually a warranty item. Your recourse appears to be taking the issue up with the mechanic you paid to inspect the car prior to purchase.
Quote:
This rule does not change the existing laws regarding warranties on used vehicles nor does it place any new requirements on dealers or brokers. Dealers and brokers should understand, however, that simply because they comply with the FTC “As-Is” rule it does not relieve them of their obligation to disclose material defects they knew or should have known about. A dealer is not required to guarantee, warrant or represent that a used vehicle will not have any mechanical problems or undetected material defects once the vehicle is sold. Further, a dealer need not create an exhaustive list of every ding, paint scratch, fabric tear or discoloration clearly visible upon inspection by an average consumer.
http://www.doj.state.or.us/hot_topic...1370200020.pdf
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
- - - Updated - - -
Quote:
Quoting
Disagreeable
Apparently the hub assembly has been changed. You will either need to buy the brake pads for that side separately or change the hub assembly to match the other side. Body work and brakes are not usually a warranty item. Your recourse appears to be taking the issue up with the mechanic you paid to inspect the car prior to purchase.
http://www.doj.state.or.us/hot_topic...1370200020.pdf
OMG! Thank you sooo much, the section
(o) Disclosure of Material Nonconformities and Defects
- A dealer or broker shall disclose existing material nonconformities and defects about which the dealer or broker
knows or negligently disregarded when the dealer or broker should have known, prior to sale or lease of a motor vehicle.
This pretty much was what I needed, if they push back I know I can get dates off the junk yard parts by tracking down the codes on the parts. And no mechanic inspected this prior to purchase, except their mechanics, I pretty much took them at their word, and the test drive I did. I must of had a brief moment of insanity.
Also do you think I could push for some money back especially since they pulled up some BS KBB on the car that priced it about 1.5k higher than it was actually worth, since they basically broke the law in selling this to me without informing me of the issue?
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
Quote:
OMG! Thank you sooo much, the section
(o) Disclosure of Material Nonconformities and Defects
- A dealer or broker shall disclose existing material nonconformities and defects about which the dealer or broker
knows or negligently disregarded when the dealer or broker should have known, prior to sale or lease of a motor vehicle.
This pretty much was what I needed, if they push back I know I can get dates off the junk yard parts by tracking down the codes on the parts. And no mechanic inspected this prior to purchase, except their mechanics, I pretty much took them at their word, and the test drive I did. I must of had a brief moment of insanity.
that leads back to the proof required to prove fraud. You need the dates the parts were acquired but you also need a title abstract so you know who owned it when the parts were installed. As an example of why:
If I owned it on Monday and bought all the parts and installed them and then sold the car to the dealer on Wednesday, the dealer has no reason to know of the repairs. You still lose.
Quote:
Also do you think I could push for some money back especially since they pulled up some BS KBB on the car that priced it about 1.5k higher than it was actually worth, since they basically broke the law in selling this to me without informing me of the issue?
not based on the KBB pricing. That one really is your obligation to verify or investigate.
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
Quote:
Quoting
jk
that leads back to the proof required to prove fraud. You need the dates the parts were acquired but you also need a title abstract so you know who owned it when the parts were installed. As an example of why:
If I owned it on Monday and bought all the parts and installed them and then sold the car to the dealer on Wednesday, the dealer has no reason to know of the repairs. You still lose.
not based on the KBB pricing. That one really is your obligation to verify or investigate.
According to the law though it doesn't matter if the dealership knew about it or not, per the part I highlighted, they probably did a quick one over and didn't notice, or didn't bother telling me.
Re: Found Evidence of Accident Damage, Inadequate Repair After Used Car Purchase
You are assuming they should have known. ESP is not admissible in court.
Re: Do I Have a Legal Case
Quote:
Quoting
Darcw0lf
According to the law though it doesn't matter if the dealership knew about it or not, per the part I highlighted, they probably did a quick one over and didn't notice, or didn't bother telling me.
actually, according to the law, yes, it does matter,especially due to what you highlighted.
Quote:
(o) Disclosure of Material Nonconformities and Defects
- A dealer or broker shall disclose existing material nonconformities and defects about which the dealer or broker
knows or negligently disregarded when the dealer or broker should have known, prior to sale or lease of a motor vehicle.
knows or negligently disregarded
that means they either had to know (actual knowledge)
of they negligently disregarded. That would mean they had to have some reason to believe there was an issue and they ignored it. Since you did not see the issue from your review of the car, apparently it is not obvious. That would mean unless you can show there is some legal requirement they performed an inspection that would have likely discovered the issue, you have nothing.