Disestablishing Paternity to Name the Actual Father

My question involves paternity law for the State of: Florida

My son was born in Florida, I was married to "not the father" and in process of divorce when child was born. I had my son with another man, and he was never placed on birth certificate due to being married to "not the father" at the time. The new man and I married, moved, and divorced shortly after. Fast forward 10 years, I have been divorced from "new man" for 5 years and we established divorce paperwork, child support, and joint custody of my son long ago. Now my ex husband wants his name on the birth certificate. Says its just a paper to sign to send off to have it done..... He claims its to keep his health insurance on my son, if not done within a certain timeline.

Am I missing something or is my ex husband up to no good? Is it just that easy?

He has a great relationship with his son, and I just don't want him pulling any stunts on me. Maybe I'm just nervous, but don't know.
Should I have someone look over the paperwork? I don't have the extra cash for a lawyer, so I'm asking here..

I don't have an issue with him being on the certificate, I'm just concerned that this could be used as leverage if anything goes astray down the road. Am I overacting, or is there some additional process that will continue on after I sign this paperwork and send it off?

Okay. Exactly which ex wants to be on the birth certificate?

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Quoting Dogmatique

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Okay. Exactly which ex wants to be on the birth certificate?

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My second husband. The one who is the father of my son.

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Quoting Bubsy

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My question involves paternity law for the State of: Florida

My son was born in Florida, I was married to "not the father" and in process of divorce when child was born. I had my son with another man, and he was never placed on birth certificate due to being married to "not the father" at the time. The new man and I married, moved, and divorced shortly after. Fast forward 10 years, I have been divorced from "new man" for 5 years and we established divorce paperwork, child support, and joint custody of my son long ago. Now my ex husband wants his name on the birth certificate. Says its just a paper to sign to send off to have it done..... He claims its to keep his health insurance on my son, if not done within a certain timeline.

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Its highly possible that he is telling the truth. Many employer based insurance plans are requiring employees to prove parentage/marriage etc., in order to continue to cover children/spouses etc., on employer plans. I have had dozens of clients mention this to me in the last couple of months...its all due to Obamacare.

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Am I missing something or is my ex husband up to no good? Is it just that easy?

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It may not be that easy...it depends on whether or not your previous ex husband was placed on the BC and whether or not dad was ever legally determined to be dad, and your previous husband's legal paternity disestablished...I cannot tell from the way that you described things.

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He has a great relationship with his son, and I just don't want him pulling any stunts on me. Maybe I'm just nervous, but don't know.
Should I have someone look over the paperwork? I don't have the extra cash for a lawyer, so I'm asking here..

I don't have an issue with him being on the certificate, I'm just concerned that this could be used as leverage if anything goes astray down the road. Am I overacting, or is there some additional process that will continue on after I sign this paperwork and send it off?

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Again, I really doubt its a stunt...its highly likely that his employer is requiring this due to Obamacare.

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Quoting llworking

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It may not be that easy...it depends on whether or not your previous ex husband was placed on the BC and whether or not dad was ever legally determined to be dad, and your previous husband's legal paternity disestablished...I cannot tell from the way that you described things.

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When my son was born, they asked who's the "father", I said this guy (the actual father of my son) but I informed them that I was still married to another man but in the process of divorce. They said that he (the actual father/my second husband) couldn't sign the BC. Later, when I received my son's BC, there wasn't a father listed on it. So here I am.

Thanks for resting some comfort in the fact that ObamaCare is causing issues, and it's not something suspicious (maybe)...

I'm wondering if there will have to be additional processes, like custody again.

Do you have other children with new man? The way you have written your post it sounds like new man is paying support for the the father's child. If so, how did you pull that one off?


and why didn't not the father deny paternity during the divorce?

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Quoting jk

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Do you have other children with new man? The way you have written your post it sounds like new man is paying support for the the father's child. If so, how did you pull that one off?


and why didn't not the father deny paternity during the divorce?

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Maybe my original posting sounded different from what I wanted to convey.

Husband #1- No children
Husband #2- Have one child (but was conceived when married to Husband #1 during divorcing)
When my son was born (Child from Husband #2, husband #2 wasn't placed onto BC because I was married to Husband #1)

Now Husband #2 wants his name on BC.

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Quoting Bubsy

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Maybe my original posting sounded different from what I wanted to convey.

Husband #1- No children
Husband #2- Have one child (but was conceived when married to Husband #1 during divorcing)
When my son was born (Child from Husband #2, husband #2 wasn't placed onto BC because I was married to Husband #1)

Now Husband #2 wants his name on BC.

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Nope, exactly what I was thinking so;



how is it that husband #2 is paying child support? You do not pay child support for a child that is not legally yours even if you are the bio father.

why didn't husband #1 dispute paternity through the divorce? and even more so, why isn't #1 paying child support?

why or actually, how did he get any visitation with a child that is not legally his?

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I have been divorced from "new man" for 5 years and we established divorce paperwork, child support, and joint custody of my son long ago.

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I'll go with:

Mom wasn't aware of the legalities during the first divorce (or second, really) when it came down child support, custody and paternity.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I'll go with:

Mom wasn't aware of the legalities during the first divorce (or second, really) when it came down child support, custody and paternity.

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So, dogmatique, am I missing something? It just isn't making any sense to me.

The first divorce I can see, at least if nobody used an attorney but...

the only thing that makes any sense with the issues concerning the "new man" is this is an out of court agreement. I cannot see a court dealing with these issues for a father who is not legally established as the father.

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Quoting Dogmatique

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I'll go with:

Mom wasn't aware of the legalities during the first divorce (or second, really) when it came down child support, custody and paternity.

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There is no name on the BC for a father.
Husband #2 pays for his child (support/visitation/being dad)... There is all divorce paperwork/custody paperwork.

Husband #1 wasn't even discussed when we divorced. He's not the father and had nothing to do with it (Actually I'm confused as to why its even being brought up). We weren't even together when I got pregnant. Cut and dry it was over and divorce was filed.


So you are correct, I'm not sure of the legalities during the first divorce. There was more paperwork on splitting of everything and custody with the second divorce.

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Quoting jk

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Nope, exactly what I was thinking so;



how is it that husband #2 is paying child support? You do not pay child support for a child that is not legally yours even if you are the bio father.

why didn't husband #1 dispute paternity through the divorce? and even more so, why isn't #1 paying child support?

why or actually, how did he get any visitation with a child that is not legally his?

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I re-read this. Now I'm starting to understand what you meant.

He takes care of his child because it is his, and he's a good father to his child. Nothing wrong there.....

I'm just glad Husband #1 is gone.

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Bubsy;755341]There is no name on the BC for a father.

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there should be since you were married but in the end, it doesn't matter and makes no sense as to why #2 is paying child support or has visitation.

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Husband #2 pays for his child (support/visitation/being dad)... There is all divorce paperwork/custody paperwork.

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that's the point. If he has not been established to be the father, he does not owe child support.

If he has been established as the father, he can have the birth certificate changed without your help. As the father he has a right to do everything you can do as a mother.

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Husband #1 wasn't even discussed when we divorced. He's not the father and had nothing to do with it (Actually I'm confused as to why its even being brought up).

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because you said:

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. I had my son with another man, and he was never placed on birth certificate due to being married to "not the father" at the time

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so unless paternity was disestablished through the divorce, #1 is still the father and he is who should be paying child support.

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We weren't even together when I got pregnant. Cut and dry it was over and divorce was filed.

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irrelevant

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Quoting Bubsy

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He takes care of his child because it is his, and he's a good father to his child. Nothing wrong there.....
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Ok, let me make this simple:


did #2 ever establish paternity


is the child support court ordered?

is the visitation court ordered?

NO he didn't establish paternity.

Ordered in legal documents from divorce lawyer what he is to pay and the joint custody agreement.

There were never any child support hearings or visitation hearings. Just a divorce lawyer, some documents and we were done.

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Bubsy;755345]NO he didn't establish paternity.

Ordered in legal documents from divorce lawyer what he is to pay and the joint custody agreement.

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well, you either have a problem or you do not understand what happened. It appears paternity has in fact been established. Otherwise he would not be liable for child support and he would have absolutely no rights to visitation. I suspect somewhere along the line the two of you acknowledged paternity and the court accepted it as factual thereby legally establishing his paternity.

If true, he can put his name on the birth certificate without your help and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.

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Quoting jk

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well, you either have a problem or you do not understand what happened. It appears paternity has in fact been established. Otherwise he would not be liable for child support and he would have absolutely no rights to visitation. I suspect somewhere along the line the two of you acknowledged paternity and the court accepted it as factual thereby legally establishing his paternity.

If true, he can put his name on the birth certificate without your help and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.

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Agreed. In all fairness OP, isn't it only right that he's named on the birth certificate as Dad?

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Quoting jk

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well, you either have a problem or you do not understand what happened. It appears paternity has in fact been established. Otherwise he would not be liable for child support and he would have absolutely no rights to visitation. I suspect somewhere along the line the two of you acknowledged paternity and the court accepted it as factual thereby legally establishing his paternity.

If true, he can put his name on the birth certificate without your help and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.

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JK...if neither one of them (mom and bio-dad) realized that something needed to be done about paternity when they divorced, its likely that their divorce decree simply identified the child as being born of the marriage and therefore custody/child support was ordered. Its not like birth certificates are included with divorce paperwork.

However, that may not sufficiently establish paternity for the purposes of the vital records division/department. What dad is likely asking her to sign is an affidavit of paternity.

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llworking;755393]JK...if neither one of them (mom and bio-dad) realized that something needed to be done about paternity when they divorced, its likely that their divorce decree simply identified the child as being born of the marriage and therefore custody/child support was ordered

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.possible but unlikely if there was a lawyer involved at all. The child is not "of this marriage" so when filling out any sort of template form, that should have been realized and the information given accurately.

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However, that may not sufficiently establish paternity for the purposes of the vital records division/department.

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if a court is ordering him to pay and allowed visitation, they have accepted him as the legal father. What do you think is different between a court order acknowledging paternity or a paternity suit that is specifically filed to determine paternity? Either results in a courts determination that whomever is the father. That is all the vital records requires. A paternity suit does not necessarily require a DNA test. In fact, generally, if a putative father accepts paternity, it is based on the mothers claim and his acceptance with no other proof. That is what it sounds like happened through the divorce.

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What dad is likely asking her to sign is an affidavit of paternity.

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Um, the child was married when the child was born. That precludes the use of an AOP in Florida.

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Quoting jk

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.possible but unlikely if there was a lawyer involved at all. The child is not "of this marriage" so when filling out any sort of template form, that should have been realized and the information given accurately.



if a court is ordering him to pay and allowed visitation, they have accepted him as the legal father. What do you think is different between a court order acknowledging paternity or a paternity suit that is specifically filed to determine paternity? Either results in a courts determination that whomever is the father. That is all the vital records requires. A paternity suit does not necessarily require a DNA test. In fact, generally, if a putative father accepts paternity, it is based on the mothers claim and his acceptance with no other proof. That is what it sounds like happened through the divorce.


Um, the child was married when the child was born. That precludes the use of an AOP in Florida.

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Ok...let me try again.

Mom and bio-dad are married for 10 years and have raised the child as their mutual child (which the child is, biologically). When they go to divorce it never occurs to them to mention that dad isn't on the BC (or they don't necessarily even think about that) and simply work out an agreement for custody and parenting time and it goes to the judge and is signed off on by the judge. Paternity is never discussed in their divorce proceedings, because they don't realize that it needs to be discussed or even mentioned to their attorneys.

It never becomes an issue until suddenly, somebody somewhere requires proof of parentage for dad, for many potential reasons, including insurance coverage...then they discover "oops" dad needs to be on that birth certificate...and the divorce decree won't do because it never mentions establishing paternity.

Dad, not knowing that it matters that mom was married to someone else when she conceived the child, asks somebody how to get his name on the birth certificate, and they tell him that the easiest way is for mom and dad to sign an affidavit of paternity...which it would be if it was a simple case of mom and dad weren't married when the baby was born and for one reason or another dad didn't get placed on the BC then.

Unfortunately, its probably more complicated than they think it is now...and its best to consult a local attorney.

If it happened like that ^ then geez what a mess. Husband #1 is legally presumed to be the father but isn't on the BC. Husband #2 was assumed to be the father by a court, which therefore didn't do anything to establish actual paternity... If this is the case it is going to take all three parties cooperating to get it fixed - and they all have compelling reasons to want to do it.

I can't speak for Florida but here you'd file a Petition to Modify the Parent-Child Relationship and what you'd be asking for is for the court to disestablish husband #1's presumed paternity and to establish husband #2 as the legal father of the child. Leave the birth certificate out of it - you can fix that afterward with the court's order. It seems the place to file would be in the court that has jurisdiction over the current support/visitation agreement. As long as everyone agrees it shouldn't be horribly complicated or expensive but it's going to be a lot more work than a simple AoP and I'd expect the court to want to see chain-of-custody paternity tests for both men.

It's curious that whoever did the BC paperwork didn't put husband #1 down as the father. It sounds like it was something like, "We can't put your boyfriend down because you're married but we're not going to put your husband down either..." which doesn't seem right. Husband #1's name *should* have been on the BC since he was presumed to be biodad.

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It's curious that whoever did the BC paperwork didn't put husband #1 down as the father.

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maybe because mom did not give it. I suspect what happened wasIt sounds like it was something like this: mom delivers. Nurse asks; are you married?


Yes

nurse; we need your husbands name to put on the BC

mom; but it isn't his child. It is my paramour's child

nurse; we can't put his name on the BC. We have to put your husbands name on it

mom; I'm not giving it to you

nurse; fine, we'll just leave it blank

they are not going to go to extreme measures and twist the mother's arm so she will give up the info
the other possibility is mom denied being married and for some reason, an AOP was not signed.

does Florida put marital status on the BC? If so, it would be interesting to see what was indicated.

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Quoting jk

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does Florida put marital status on the BC? If so, it would be interesting to see what was indicated.

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Nope, we don't =/