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Hitting Somebody as a Joke and Causing an Injury

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  • 10-25-2013, 10:17 AM
    Welfarelvr
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    Quote:

    Quoting ALbertsmithe
    View Post
    The student was told to come in to the police station....the following day. Im sorry. This was a highschool cop and the cop said go to the police station the next day.

    The other question is the police said dont talk to the other family. Is there any legality to this and is it a bad idea to do so? seems like something that can get worked out easily

    One reason the police are asking the student to voluntarily go to the police station is so Miranda is not implicated. It is never a good idea to talk to the police when they suspect you of a crime without your attorney present. Getting an attorney is the immediate first step for the student.
  • 10-25-2013, 11:33 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    If the police wantto be sure Miranda isn't implicated, they can talk to you over the phone. There's no chance of that being confused with custodial interrogation.
  • 10-25-2013, 01:05 PM
    Welfarelvr
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    If the police wantto be sure Miranda isn't implicated, they can talk to you over the phone. There's no chance of that being confused with custodial interrogation.

    That would certainly be fair. The police do not want to be fair. They want testimonial evidence. They want to have the person in a coercive environment without giving the warnings required for an interrogation when in custody because some might make use of their rights. If the police brought the person to the station, then that could be considered custody. There are many cases where it is determined to not be custody when the suspect comes to the station of his own free will.
  • 10-25-2013, 01:09 PM
    cbg
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    The police also want the testimony to stand up in court and not get thrown out because it was coerced.
  • 10-25-2013, 01:42 PM
    Welfarelvr
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    The police also want the testimony to stand up in court and not get thrown out because it was coerced.

    There is a difference between a person's testimony when they were in a coercive environment and coerced testimony as legal jargon. It is not coerced testimony just because a suspect is alone in a closed room with two large police officers with one being nice and the other being mean. That does not mean such an environment is not coercive.
  • 10-25-2013, 01:43 PM
    Mephis
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    Quote:

    Quoting ALbertsmithe
    View Post
    you have taken the little information you have and built this whole construct

    Albert, please note this is because you have not provided, are unable to provide, or refuse to provide the necessary information in order for people to give you accurate advise.

    I am not familiar with your state's laws but in many states a 16 or 17 year old can be questioned as an adult without their parent, legal guardian or counsel present. Now if she goes to the station and they start asking her to sign anything she needs to read it, if it says something like Rights Waiver or You have the right to an attorney, then the best advise would be for her to ask to speak with an attorney before answering any other questions.

    Given the little information provided she could face the following or combinations thereof
    1-nothing
    2-civil action for medical bills
    3-suspension or expulsion from school
    4-criminal prosecution for a misdemeanor simple assault and/or battery
    5-felony prosecution for unlawful felonious assault or malicious assault
  • 10-25-2013, 01:44 PM
    cbg
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    True. But appearances are important as well. It's just as easy to do things in a way that will hold up to scrutiny as it is to do them in a way that can be looked at two different ways, one of them illegal.
  • 10-25-2013, 02:23 PM
    Welfarelvr
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    Quote:

    Quoting cbg
    View Post
    True. But appearances are important as well. It's just as easy to do things in a way that will hold up to scrutiny as it is to do them in a way that can be looked at two different ways, one of them illegal.

    One way that will "hold up to scrutiny" is to ask the person to come down to the station. That avoids the custody leg of Miranda. If Miranda is designed to prevent the harm of inherently intimidating environments, then if it is not implicated it is less likely to be looked at as an illegal interrogation. That is using your term of "illegal".

    As the court held:
    Quote:

    (a) The atmosphere and environment of incommunicado interrogation as it exists today is inherently intimidating, and works to undermine the privilege against self-incrimination. Unless adequate preventive measures are taken to dispel the compulsion inherent in custodial surroundings, no statement obtained from the defendant can truly be the product of his free choice.
  • 10-25-2013, 03:04 PM
    viol8te
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    And of course let's not forget that a conviction of a batter to a minor constitutes a 10 year registration as a violent offender against youth.
  • 10-25-2013, 03:40 PM
    Welfarelvr
    Re: Under Agree Student Being Sued for Incident at School Police Said Come into Stati
    Quote:

    Quoting viol8te
    View Post
    And of course let's not forget that a conviction of a batter to a minor constitutes a 10 year registration as a violent offender against youth.

    Not quite.

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...2&ChapterID=55

    (b) As used in this Act, "violent offense against youth" means:
    (1) A violation of any of the following Sections of
    the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012, when the victim is a person under 18 years of age and the offense was committed on or after January 1, 1996:
    10-1 (kidnapping),
    10-2 (aggravated kidnapping),
    10-3 (unlawful restraint),
    10-3.1 (aggravated unlawful restraint).
    An attempt to commit any of these offenses.
    (2) First degree murder under Section 9-1 of the
    Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012, when the victim was a person under 18 years of age and the defendant was at least 17 years of age at the time of the commission of the offense.
    (3) Child abduction under paragraph (10) of
    subsection (b) of Section 10-5 of the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012 committed by luring or attempting to lure a child under the age of 16 into a motor vehicle, building, house trailer, or dwelling place without the consent of the parent or lawful custodian of the child for other than a lawful purpose and the offense was committed on or after January 1, 1998.
    (4) A violation or attempted violation of the
    following Section of the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012 when the offense was committed on or after July 1, 1999:
    10-4 (forcible detention, if the victim is under
    18 years of age).
    (4.1) Involuntary manslaughter under Section 9-3 of
    the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012 where baby shaking was the proximate cause of death of the victim of the offense.
    (4.2) Endangering the life or health of a child
    under Section 12-21.6 or 12C-5 of the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012 that results in the death of the child where baby shaking was the proximate cause of the death of the child.
    (4.3) Domestic battery resulting in bodily harm under
    Section 12-3.2 of the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012 when the defendant was 18 years or older and the victim was under 18 years of age and the offense was committed on or after July 26, 2010.
    (4.4) A violation or attempted violation of any of
    the following Sections or clauses of the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012 when the victim was under 18 years of age and the offense was committed on or after (1) July 26, 2000 if the defendant was 18 years of age or older or (2) July 26, 2010 and the defendant was under the age of 18:
    12-3.3 (aggravated domestic battery),
    12-3.05(a)(1), 12-3.05(d)(2), 12-3.05(f)(1),
    12-4(a), 12-4(b)(1), or 12-4(b)(14) (aggravated battery),
    12-3.05(a)(2) or 12-4.1 (heinous battery),
    12-3.05(b) or 12-4.3 (aggravated battery of a
    child),
    12-3.1(a-5) or 12-4.4 (aggravated battery of an
    unborn child),
    12-33 (ritualized abuse of a child).
    (4.5) A violation or attempted violation of any of
    the following Sections of the Criminal Code of 1961 or the Criminal Code of 2012 when the victim was under 18 years of age and the offense was committed on or after (1) August 1, 2001 if the defendant was 18 years of age or older or (2) August 1, 2011 and the defendant was under the age of 18:
    12-3.05(e)(1), (2), (3), or (4) or 12-4.2
    (aggravated battery with a firearm),
    12-3.05(e)(5), (6), (7), or (8) or 12-4.2-5
    (aggravated battery with a machine gun),
    12-11 or 19-6 (home invasion).
    (5) A violation of any former law of this State
    substantially equivalent to any offense listed in this subsection (b).
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