My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
I was driving straight and saw 2 cars ahead of me leaned toward the left, crossed the double solid yellow lines because a bus stopped on our lane. I followed the 2 cars and did the same, and then a cop stopped me. He said we 3 cars cited violation, but because I was the last one, he could only stopped me. Is there anything I can say in my written declaration that could help rule in my favor?
Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)
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10-12-2013, 11:18 AMmsgevaCited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)
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10-12-2013, 12:28 PMflyingronRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)
Nope, the officer is not required to write up everybody who commits an offense. Passing a stopped bus is not an excuse for crossing the double yellow lines.
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10-12-2013, 03:36 PMThat GuyRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)You can go to the arraignment and plead guilty and you are likely to get some sort of fine reduction. Additionally, assuming you are eligible for traffic school you can select that at will whereas if you do a declaration or a trial then it becomes a discretionary matter for the judge to decide on upon request.Quote:
Quoting msgeva
By doing a declaration you will likely be required to post bail for the full amount of the fine... which would imply that you are locking yourself into paying the full fine and possibly locking yourself out of traffic school. -
10-12-2013, 05:55 PMmsgevaRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)Sorry for asking stupid questions, this is my first time getting a ticket. Currently I get both Arraignment and Traffic School choices. If I choose Arraignment and plead guilty, will I get fine reduction AND traffic school? I just want to make sure that I won't get point deduction so my insurance won't go up. Tanks!Quote:
Quoting That Guy
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10-12-2013, 11:53 PMptatohedRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)TG, you're always telling me not to give people "false hope" but I'd say that's exactly what you are doing when you are telling someone they are likely to get a fine reduction. Admittedly, I don't have a whole lot of traffic court experience but I'll say in my one experience, the judge made it very explicit that there would be no fine reductions and to not even ask (one defendant asked anyway and the judge very quickly told her no). Likewise, I also don't see many CA people, if any, on this forum who have stated they have received fine reductions. Maybe other CA counties give reductions, but mine certainly did not. Where do you get your information that a fine reduction is likely?Quote:
Quoting That Guy
msg, in my opinion you have nothing to lose by trying a TBWD and then, if you lose, request a TDN and, at a minimum, show up in court to see if your witness shows up or not. If your witness is there and you are not comfortable going in front of the judge, it is very common that you'll be offered a last opportunity to change your plea to guilty and request traffic school (if you otherwise are eligible) before the hearings begin. There is a small but possible chance you may win the TBWD and there is also a small but possible chance your witness will not show and your case dismissed. It's worth trying.
Of course my advice assumes you will be offered no fine reduction by the court yet you will be offered a last chance for TS on the day of your TDN. Since nothing is a guarantee, you'll have to decide for yourself. But if it were me, I wouldn't go down without a fight. Best of luck. -
10-13-2013, 01:18 AMDisagreeableRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)
Oh great, another person that believes in a TBWD where you write I'm not guilty and send it in.
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10-13-2013, 10:31 AMptatohedRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)Who? Hopefully you're not talking about me because I never said that. I say write the best TBWD you can.Quote:
Quoting Disagreeable
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10-13-2013, 12:37 PMThat GuyRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)Its not a stupid question... At least you are asking instead of pretending you know that which you are clueless about. Let me see if I can clarify...Quote:
Quoting msgeva
As far as the arraignment, with only a few exceptions (for example, if you requested a TBD, or if you simply show up at the clerk‘s window and paid the fine), you are entitled to one by way of state and federal laws. So that will not change much. As for traffic school I don't know what you driving record is or if you have attended traffic school in the 18 months prior to the date you received this citation. If you have attended traffic school within that period, then it will not be available to you. However, if you have not, and based on the code you were cited for, and as long as you request traffic school as part of your pleading guilty, then there is not going to be any reason why you would not be able to take it and have the violation concealed off your driving record.
Lastly, for the fine reduction, I cannot guarantee you anything as these matters are usually up to the discretion of the court. But in all the years that I have been watching traffic matters and participating in discussions such as this, and with the exception of more serious traffic violations, I cannot remember even one time where I watched or heard of an arraignment where the judicial officer was not offering fine reductions. There are times where they will offer it even without you asking, while other times they might wait to see if you ask, but they always seem to be willing to give someone a break, sort of an incentive to close out their case and get it off the court’s calendar.
Either way, it appears that the violation point is more of a concern to you that a possible reduction, and if that is the case then regardless of how you look at it, the only guaranteed chance that you have at traffic school, is if you make that election at the arraignment. In spite of what you’ve read above, there really is no getting around that fact.
Good luck!
I'm always telling you? I haven't addressed your disrespectful a** in weeks all while you ran around harassing me talking smack. All while you're claiming everyone else is being "rude" and "disrespectful", all while you are the epitome of "rudeness" and "disrespect"Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
I gave up on trying to get through to you, and the only reason why I will provide this explanation is not for you, but for those who might only get confused by your attempt to infer some sort of benefit to them.
Then stop pretending that you do... And since you don't have a lot of experience, your attempt to argue that I am giving people false hope, is based on ignorance rather than knowledge. Do you ever stop going out of your way to embarrass yourself?Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
In your one experience, you elected for a TBD, what were you doing at the arraignment when in fact a TBD request is made with the clerk, not in open court?Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Think about what you're saying.... You are suggesting that someone who cam e here posted asking for advice, ended up going to court, pleading guilty, asking fgor or receiving a fine reduction, then coming back to report "OK, I plead guilty and the judge offered me a reduction".... All while most people who come here, fail to return to report the outcome of more important more details procedures...Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Again, think about what you are saying... You had one experience, one court attendance... One judge, who might have been having a bad day. But even if that was the status quo for this judge, on judge's policy does not make for the policy of an entire county!Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Do I seriously have to explain to you what "Likely" means?Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Here you go....
like·ly
ˈlīklē/
adjective
1. such as well might happen or be true; probable.
"the likely effects of the drought on sugar beet yields"
synonyms: probable, distinctly possible, to be expected, odds-on, possible, plausible, imaginable.
antonyms: improbable, impossible
2. apparently suitable; promising.
"a likely-looking spot"
synonyms: suitable, appropriate, apposite, fit, fitting, acceptable, right;
adverb: likely
1. probably.
"we will most likely go to a bar"
synonyms: probably, in all probability, presumably.
You might note that in the example where it is used with "most", as in "most likely", it still means "probably".
Still think that my saying "you will probably get a fine reduction instills false hope"?
Would you like me to explain “probably” as well? Or do you think you can figure that one on your own?
Now, with that said, if any defendant were to attend the arraignment expecting a reduction, and yet the judge happens to be a hard nosed judge who is not offering any sort of reduction, then the defendant can choose to plead differently. He is not under any obligation to still plead guilty.
The difference then between what I advise, that people use their heads and decide what is in their best interest, is leaps and bounds away from you offering them false hope that the judge will have no other choice but to offer them a fine reduction and the opportunity to attend traffic school because -according to you- he/she has to. So if they listen to you, they plead not guilty, they fight their ticket, they lose and now it gets time for the judge to do as you suggested and... Yet he/she chooses to deny their request for both, the fine reduction and the traffic school attendance.
What do you have to say to them at that point?
In other words, my advice gives them the option to either plead guilty, take traffic school and accept any amount of reduction of anywhere between zero dollars all the way to a suspension of the entire fine (if the judge chooses to make such an offer)… The defendant then is in full control to decide his/her destiny.
Your advice on the other hand, leads them into a position where they are at the total mercy and control of the judge. Yes, they can request, but just because you “request” does not mean you shall receive! If the judge happens to be having a great day then maybe, just maybe he will let them have traffic school (although he is not obligated to nor is he required to state a reason for his refusal if he does refuse); otherwise and if he is having a bad day, at which point there is no traffic school, there is no fine reduction… At which point, the defendant has no other choice but to suffer the consequences of his taking a chance and wanting to play roulette with the court’s time!
Seriously... Do you even read what you are posting? Do you think you are fooling anyone here? Besides yourself, that is…Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Let us review....
In your first paragraph you stated:
Just to make sure that was clear, you stated that you do NOT have a lot of traffic court experience, to be specific, you've only been to traffic court ONCE.Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
In your second paragraph, you portray a different image when you state:
All of a sudden, you are quite familiar with what is common and what isn't?Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Are you saying that you can determine what is common and what isn't from one traffic court attendance? Really???
Let's look at definitions again.... This time, the definitnon of the term "common"... I am only going to post one of several because it is the one that really proves the point here:
com·mon [kom-uhn]
noun
adjective
1. belonging equally to, or shared alike by, two or more or all in question: common property; common interests.
And I have underlined the important terms... "two or more". Whereas you've only had ONE experience...
Now, before you act like the idiot you were in another thread, and before you come back to offer there were 15 or 19 or however many people, you have only had ONE experience in court, one judge, one court, one uniform decision.... Still only equals ONE experience!
But let us look again at what you deem to be "very common"...
So while you can object to my use of the term "likely", you opt to use "you'll" as in “you WILL”, i.e. undoubtedly, without question "be allowed to change your plea and to request traffic school". Really!Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Of course the judge cannot prevent you from changing your plea. However, by you doing so at the point in time you are suggesting it should be done, you are making it abundantly clear that you had no defense, that you simply manipulated the system and used the court's resources as well as made the officer appear in court whereas his time would likely be better invested elsewhere... Most judges don't appreciate being played and they consider their time to be quite valuable. And you still anticipate that the judge will feel sorry for you to still offer you a fine reduction and allow you traffic school? You had the perfect opportunity to have both request fulfilled without you playing games, but you opted to let go of both those possible avenues, so why should you be afforded the same benefits after clearly showing disrespect to the court and its resources?
Let us assume that the chance that you will get a fine reduction is 50%.
Let us further assume that a traffic school request after the TBD will be approved is 50%... Both those hypotheticals are HUGE stretches in my opinion but it still will prove my point.
There are no real figures to determine the percentages of whether the officer will appear or not but a mere guess would probably be indicative of your average chance of him not appearing being at or around 5% of the time.
You have a 90 % chance of getting a fine reduction at the arraignment.
If you are eligible for traffic school, you have a 100% chance of having that option to utilize.
And here you are arguing that you will take the first set of odds every day so f the week and twice on Sunday. Suit yourself, but don’t assume that everyone who comes along is so careless, or worse yet, reckless with their money. A conviction will likely imply an increased insurance premium for 3 years fro the date of the violation. And to some people, that is a burden that they would rather not carry.
Once again, your advice does nothing but back people up in a corner and leave them at the mercy of the court. Deny it all you want, but when the conviction rate in traffic court is somewhere near 90% where the majority of dismissals or acquittals comes by way of the officer not appearing,Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
It appears that you enjoy taking a beating then… Yes, I will repeat the fact that you lost the TBD, asked for a TDN, lost the TDN and you are still fighting… All while you never had a glimmer of hope… Oh wait, before you remind me, you’re enjoying the experience… Which is exactly what I just stated: You enjoy taking a beating!Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
Lastly, don’t say you’ve learned a lot either. Because you have screwed up several steps in your appeal (all while you argue that you did so correctly); you have rejected each and every suggestion that each and every member has offered you as their way to help. Heck, you still have not learned how to use quotes in your replies; instead, you have to pull out your crayons and color code different sentences…
Well, here is your opportunity to help this OP out... Help him write the best TBWD you can for him.....Quote:
Quoting ptatohed
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10-13-2013, 04:33 PMmsgevaRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)
Thanks everyone! I guess I can't even do TBD or TBWD because on the notice, it says
"No other options are available to you and you are not eligible for a Trial by Declaration"
So I think the only options I have right now are
1) Request Court Appearance (Arraignment or Court Trial)
2) Traffic School
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Actually I took traffic school on 9/30/12 for a speed ticket that I got on July 2012. Does that mean I'll have to get a demerit point?
[QUOTE=That Guy;751132]Its not a stupid question... At least you are asking instead of pretending you know that which you are clueless about. Let me see if I can clarify...
As far as the arraignment, with only a few exceptions (for example, if you requested a TBD, or if you simply show up at the clerk‘s window and paid the fine), you are entitled to one by way of state and federal laws. So that will not change much. As for traffic school I don't know what you driving record is or if you have attended traffic school in the 18 months prior to the date you received this citation. If you have attended traffic school within that period, then it will not be available to you. However, if you have not, and based on the code you were cited for, and as long as you request traffic school as part of your pleading guilty, then there is not going to be any reason why you would not be able to take it and have the violation concealed off your driving record. -
10-14-2013, 10:42 AMmsgevaRe: Cited for Crossing Double Yellow Lines, CVC 21460(A)
Can someone please advice, whether I can ask for traffic school option if I go for Arraignment?