Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand here. A defendant has the right to request traffic school. They also have a right to request any other punishment allowed by law. Just as in every court trial, unless the law specifies a particular punishment, it is entirely up to the judge to determine what punishment is actually given.
so, does the defendant have a right to request traffic school, regardless where in the process they are?
yes
does a judge have to grant that request? That's a huge NO.
As an example: just because a murderer asks for the minimum sentence that does not mean the judge has to impose the minimum sentence. Once you are determined to be guilty, what punishment imposed is entirely up to the judge.
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
Quote:
Quoting
jk
I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand here. A defendant has the right to request traffic school. They also have a right to request any other punishment allowed by law. Just as in every court trial, unless the law specifies a particular punishment, it is entirely up to the judge to determine what punishment is actually given.
so, does the defendant have a right to request traffic school, regardless where in the process they are?
yes
does a judge have to grant that request? That's a huge NO.
As an example: just because a murderer asks for the minimum sentence that does not mean the judge has to impose the minimum sentence. Once you are determined to be guilty, what punishment imposed is entirely up to the judge.
My friend went to court for a seatbelt citation (his case was dismissed because the officer didn't show up). This provided me with the opportunity to witness the proceedings and better grasp what goes on for traffic citation. Like you've said, it is entirely up to the judge.
This specific pro tem made it clear that people could request traffic school and plead guilty or that they could contest in which case he had a "tendency" not to grant traffic school if they were nevertheless found guilty.
What was far more interesting to me though is that I assumed the cops would be in bed with the judge... but it looks like although their testimony was given more credence, they were nevertheless just as nervous as the defendant and also fumbled answers.
With the exception of my friend, everyone (8 or so people) were found guilty. One exception was a defendant-continuance request (granted because she wanted to be heard by a judge, not the pro tem) and an officer-continuance request (also granted).
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
Quote:
Quoting
jk
I'm not sure what is so difficult to understand here. A defendant has the right to request traffic school. They also have a right to request any other punishment allowed by law. Just as in every court trial, unless the law specifies a particular punishment, it is entirely up to the judge to determine what punishment is actually given.
so, does the defendant have a right to request traffic school, regardless where in the process they are?
yes
does a judge have to grant that request? That's a huge NO.
As an example: just because a murderer asks for the minimum sentence that does not mean the judge has to impose the minimum sentence. Once you are determined to be guilty, what punishment imposed is entirely up to the judge.
Thanks jk. However, I'm not sure that anyone was having any trouble understanding. Also, in reply to "so, does the defendant have a right to request traffic school, regardless where in the process they are?", as I mentioned before, we were given clear instruction by the judge that we could not request TS after we pled guilty, went before him and were found guilty. He said if he wanted to offer it, he might, but that we can not request it.
Quote:
Quoting
Apexeon
My friend went to court for a seatbelt citation (his case was dismissed because the officer didn't show up). This provided me with the opportunity to witness the proceedings and better grasp what goes on for traffic citation. Like you've said, it is entirely up to the judge.
This specific pro tem made it clear that people could request traffic school and plead guilty or that they could contest in which case he had a "tendency" not to grant traffic school if they were nevertheless found guilty.
What was far more interesting to me though is that I assumed the cops would be in bed with the judge... but it looks like although their testimony was given more credence, they were nevertheless just as nervous as the defendant and also fumbled answers.
With the exception of my friend, everyone (8 or so people) were found guilty. One exception was a defendant-continuance request (granted because she wanted to be heard by a judge, not the pro tem) and an officer-continuance request (also granted).
So, according to TG, you are a liar because none of this was "your experience". ;) Just kidding, thanks for sharing Apex. I have only been to traffic court once so I like to hear more stories. Congrats to your friend.
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
Exactly what I was talking about. You don't understand what I said. Per the laws, you can request traffic school anytime. A judge has the authority and discretion to grant the request... Any time.
In what you were saying was the judge was telling you he did not want to hear a request for TS after a certain point. That was his way of saying: don't bother. You had oppoertunities to ask for it and refuse it. I don't want to hear it anymore. You still had a legal right to ask for it after that and the judge still had the option of giving it. He was just warning you that if you did ask for it, you would piss him off. You don't want to piss off your judge.
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
Quote:
Quoting
jk
Exactly what I was talking about. You don't understand what I said. Per the laws, you can request traffic school anytime. A judge has the authority and discretion to grant the request... Any time.
In what you were saying was the judge was telling you he did not want to hear a request for TS after a certain point. That was his way of saying: don't bother. You had oppoertunities to ask for it and refuse it. I don't want to hear it anymore. You still had a legal right to ask for it after that and the judge still had the option of giving it. He was just warning you that if you did ask for it, you would piss him off. You don't want to piss off your judge.
10-4
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
My case was dismissed. Both the officer and I were present. His reason for dismissal request was "In the interest of justice..."
So. It appears it was worth while after all :)
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
Quote:
Quoting
Apexeon
My case was dismissed. Both the officer and I were present. His reason for dismissal request was "In the interest of justice..."
So. It appears it was worth while after all :)
Nice. Congrats. Can you provide more details? What exactly did you say to the judge before you requested dismissal?
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
Quote:
Quoting
ptatohed
Nice. Congrats. Can you provide more details? What exactly did you say to the judge before you requested dismissal?
The only thing I said in that courtroom were:
"Present" for roll call.
"here" when the judge called my name.
The document states:
The results of the proceedings
1. Defendant was present.
2. Citing officer [omitted] was present.
3. Count 1 CVC 22350 1 dismissed. Reason: In the interest of Justice...
4. Notes: DISMISSED AT OFFICER'S REQUEST
5. Bail of $238.00 exonerated.
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
It's likely that the officer had no independent recollection of the stop so he could not testify as to the facts of the case. It happens occasionally.
Re: Do You Have to Choose Between Trial de Novo and Traffic School
Quote:
Quoting
cdwjava
It's likely that the officer had no independent recollection of the stop so he could not testify as to the facts of the case. It happens occasionally.
Quite right. So it was very much worthwhile (in my case) to do TWD + de novo, especially since I had already paid and there really wasn't anything else for me to lose. I would recommend everyone see theirs through.
Incidentally, that's what the officers' notes are for. In anticipation of litigation. Literally.