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Date of Valuation of Retirement for a QDRO

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  • 09-08-2013, 01:21 PM
    Rpd
    Date of Valuation of Retirement for a QDRO
    My question involves a marriage in the state of: IL

    My MSA states that my ex is to receive 50% of my 403b, but there is no date in the agreement stating what date it should be valued. The only number in the agreement is the dollar value of the account at the time we first began negotiations, which was nine months and a lot of arguing before the final agreement and divorce. I say, because the dollar amount is in the agreement and the date is not, it should be that value, but my ex and her lawyer think it should be the date of the divorce. I cannot afford a lawyer to review this.

    The agreement says:

    RICHARD’s 403(b), TIAA-Cref, with a value of approximately $28,451.00 shall be divided equally between the parties pursuant to a qualified domestic relations.

    Any advice is very much appreciated.
  • 09-08-2013, 01:36 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Date of Valuation of Retirement for Qdro
    1 - The dollar amount is NOT in the agreement. It says "approximately." If it didn't say "approximately" then the dollar amount would be in the agreement.

    2 - It's the date of the divorce decree unless some other date is specified in the agreement.

    3 - She has a lawyer and you don't. You can't afford a lawyer, so you certainly can't afford to litigate the issue, right? Probably time to bend over and admit defeat. Take your lumps and get on with your life. I know that's tough to swallow but you really don't have much of a choice.
  • 09-08-2013, 04:26 PM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Date of Valuation of Retirement for a QDRO
    Normally, absent an agreement or order to the contrary, the date of valuation would be the date of trial.
    Quote:

    Quoting 750 ILCS 5/503(f)
    (f) In a proceeding for dissolution of marriage or declaration of invalidity of marriage or in a proceeding for disposition of property following dissolution of marriage by a court that lacked personal jurisdiction over the absent spouse or lacked jurisdiction to dispose of the property, the court, in determining the value of the marital and non-marital property for purposes of dividing the property, shall value the property as of the date of trial or some other date as close to the date of trial as is practicable.

  • 09-08-2013, 04:31 PM
    Rpd
    Re: Date of Valuation of Retirement for Qdro
    1. So you are saying the "approximately" is specifically in there so that the dollar amount stated is not relevant? That it is a specific legal usage of the term?

    2. I have found a few sites, geared toward inexperienced lawyers doing QDROs, that say that it is very important that the date be in there because the parties can otherwise fight about the intended date of division. This makes it sound as though it doesn't necessarily default to the date of the decree. Or are you saying that is just not the case?

    3. I would be willing to go to court on my own. I spent $15,000 in legal fees only to get all $35,000 of the joint martial debt, and one of the reasons I agreed to that was because the number was $12,000 less than the balance in the 403b at the date of divorce. I just had to file for bankruptcy. I'm having a very hard time letting this go.
  • 09-08-2013, 05:40 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Date of Valuation of Retirement for a QDRO
    Quote:

    Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Normally, absent an agreement or order to the contrary, the date of valuation would be the date of trial.

    "or some other date as close to the date of trial as is practicable."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting Rpd
    View Post
    1. So you are saying the "approximately" is specifically in there so that the dollar amount stated is not relevant? That it is a specific legal usage of the term?

    "Approximately" followed by a number means that it's not the exact number and there could be a different number. I don't know about it being "legal usage" but it certainly is common sense usage, which makes the agreement a little vague and ambiguous to the point where her lawyer is disputing it to get his client more money.

    Quote:

    Quoting Rpd
    View Post
    2. I have found a few sites, geared toward inexperienced lawyers doing QDROs, that say that it is very important that the date be in there because the parties can otherwise fight about the intended date of division. This makes it sound as though it doesn't necessarily default to the date of the decree. Or are you saying that is just not the case?

    The parties fight over it if there is no date and when there is no date it either defaults to some date which could be the date of trial according to the statute but if you reached an agreement without a trial I'm still thinking it would be the date of the decree in the absence of any other date.

    Quote:

    Quoting Rpd
    View Post
    3. I would be willing to go to court on my own.

    You'll have to, because, as long as her lawyer says one thing and you say another, it'll take a judge to decide. Try pointing out the statute to her lawyer if there was a trial and the trial date is in your favor. If not, one option is to file a Motion for Clarification and ask the judge to review the agreement and pick the date.

    Quote:

    Quoting Rpd
    View Post
    I spent $15,000 in legal fees only to get all $35,000 of the joint martial debt, and one of the reasons I agreed to that was because the number was $12,000 less than the balance in the 403b at the date of divorce. I just had to file for bankruptcy. I'm having a very hard time letting this go.

    I'm sympathetic. I went through a hostile two year battle with my ex-wife.
  • 09-08-2013, 06:38 PM
    Rambo2
    Re: Date of Valuation of Retirement for a QDRO
    Quote:

    I would be willing to go to court on my own. I spent $15,000 in legal fees only to get all $35,000 of the joint martial debt, and one of the reasons I agreed to that was because the number was $12,000 less than the balance in the 403b at the date of divorce. I just had to file for bankruptcy. I'm having a very hard time letting this go.
    Check the statutes and review case law for guidance. If you can find any cases that support your position, you've got a shot. I represented myself in divorce court three times after my legal fees got ridiculous. Won three times too. I used Represent Yourself in Court by Nolo Press to help prepare. Many counties have resources for self-represented parties too, including fill-in-the-blank legal forms and people to help you file them.
  • 09-09-2013, 05:08 PM
    Rpd
    Re: Date of Valuation of Retirement for a QDRO
    Thanks for everybody for your replies and advice. I am gointg to pursue arguing it on my own to a point - I think it's reasonable to argue that the dollar amount should not have been in there if it wasn't relevant - but move on if it gets too stressful. I appreciate all of the help.
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