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Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap

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  • 08-30-2013, 08:56 PM
    Hazydaze
    Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
    .
    I was riding a bicycle and got stopped for what the cop told me was cutting across traffic and turning illegally across a double yellow line. After getting the ticket the actual citation is for "cvc21650.1 riding a bike against traffic". I link a picture for your judgment if I was in the wrong or of a possible defense because I plan on pleading not guilty. If there is a car at the intersection I usually wait behind them for the light but when no cars are there my bike does not trigger the light so I turn left "early" into the dirt lot. There is clearly a gap in the double yellow line to allow cars turning left into and out from the access road. Why can they turn left across a double yellow but I was ticketed? Do I even have to worry about the left turn since the citation is for riding a bike against traffic, which I never did even if the turn was illegal? Since this is my first traffic ticket I'm not sure how to approach this. Thanks.

    The red line is my path I was headed west. This location is in Rosamond, Ca at Rosamond Blvd & 25th st w if anybody needs to see more of the area not in the picture.

    http://i552.photobucket.com/albums/j...ard/ticket.png
  • 08-30-2013, 09:08 PM
    jk
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    the statute cited suggests you did not simply turn left where indicated but rode the wrong direction in the oncoming lanes for some distance. Did you turn at a 90 deg angle or greater from your direction of travel or did you lazily cross the road which would have caused you to travel the wrong way on the oncoming lanes?

    btw; your red line suggests the same violation where you returned onto the roadway
  • 08-30-2013, 09:16 PM
    Jack Jackson
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Its a goofy ticket ... I see nothing wrong with the left turn.
  • 08-30-2013, 09:19 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    When you made your left turn you were headed (based upon the line YOU drew) SSW (that's west in the eastbound lane) - when you should have headed south.

    When you proceeded south on the roadway west of the dirt lot you headed south in the northbound lane.

    The ticket sounds valid to me. It might be overly picky depending on the disruption to traffic, but, on its face, it looks like there exists sufficient probable cause to support one or even TWO offenses.
  • 08-30-2013, 09:20 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Quote:

    Quoting Hazydaze
    View Post
    .
    I was riding a bicycle and got stopped for what the cop told me was cutting across traffic and turning illegally across a double yellow line. After getting the ticket the actual citation is for "cvc21650.1 riding a bike against traffic". I link a picture for your judgment if I was in the wrong or of a possible defense because I plan on pleading not guilty. If there is a car at the intersection I usually wait behind them for the light but when no cars are there my bike does not trigger the light so I turn left "early" into the dirt lot. There is clearly a gap in the double yellow line to allow cars turning left into and out from the access road. Why can they turn left across a double yellow but I was ticketed? Do I even have to worry about the left turn since the citation is for riding a bike against traffic, which I never did even if the turn was illegal? Since this is my first traffic ticket I'm not sure how to approach this. Thanks.

    Here's what the statute says:

    V C Section 21650.1 Bicycle Operated on Roadway or Highway Shoulder

    Bicycle Operated on Roadway or Highway Shoulder

    21650.1. A bicycle operated on a roadway, or the shoulder of a highway, shall be operated in the same direction as vehicles are required to be driven upon the roadway.

    This has nothing to do with crossing the double yellow line at the gap.

    It has everything to do with you cutting through private property to avoid the traffic signal.

    There is likely a statute prohibiting vehicles from cutting through private property. If it's not in the state vehicle code it could be in the city ordinances.

    A vehicle would have been required to make the left turn at the light. Therefore, you were also required to make the left turn at the light.

    It looks like the only reason that the gap is there is to allow vehicles to pull into that little parking area where those cars are parked.
  • 08-30-2013, 09:39 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    I suppose that had he violated some muni code for cutting the corner, he would have been cited for this. I look at the cite and see this as a cite for going against traffic - west in the eastbound lane and then, later, south in the northbound lane.

    I have always said that bicycles are almost impossible to operate legally - and, at night, most every bike is illegal as most people are unaware of the rules or equipment that bikes must adhere to.
  • 08-30-2013, 09:46 PM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Quote:

    Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    I suppose that had he violated some muni code for cutting the corner, he would have been cited for this. I look at the cite and see this as a cite for going against traffic - west in the eastbound lane and then, later, south in the northbound lane.

    Yeah, I can see that based on the directions that the red line is going in.
  • 08-30-2013, 09:50 PM
    Disagreeable
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    In the first crossing, you can certainly make the argument you stayed within the lane, though you did not make a perfect 90 degree turn.
  • 08-30-2013, 10:00 PM
    jk
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    but of course the red line is drawn by the guy that got the ticket and claims he did not commit the infraction. I suspect the officer involved would describe the situation happening a slightly bit differently.
  • 08-30-2013, 10:21 PM
    Jack Jackson
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Quote:

    Quoting jk
    View Post
    but of course the red line is drawn by the guy that got the ticket and claims he did not commit the infraction. I suspect the officer involved would describe the situation happening a slightly bit differently.

    Of course ... posts are always of this nature. I assume what he says is fact; if he lied, then he has only himself to blame for getting improper advice, right?
  • 08-30-2013, 10:26 PM
    Hazydaze
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    The cars behind me that were going in my direction all caught the previous light at the off-ramp so there was no traffic in my direction so I took the opportunity to make my way into the left lane for the turn. I may have "lazily" crossed from the right lane to the left lane but the turn it's self was no more or less sharp than a car would do straight into the dirt. The light at the intersection in question had just turned green half way through my turn.

    Like I said I do go through the light more often than not, but when no cars are present I won't trigger it alone. I was stranded there one day waiting through several cycles of the lights and it never changed for me and I was right on top of the cut-out for the sensors. I'm not sure what to do in that situation so I started turning into the lot because to me it looked legal because of the break in the line and other people in cars turn into the lot all the time on saturdays when people set up their garage sells there.

    I was looking around a saw something to the effect that you could turn left across a double yellow unless there was either a sign or "barrier" like those yellow dot markers or similar that prohibits it in that area. This has neither a sign or any barrier prohibiting turning left into the lot and has a clear unmarked area for making turns through the double lines. The crossing through the lot I don't think is at issue (the guy said nothing about it) it was the change from the right lane to the left and the turn into the lot why he stopped me. His actions and attitude led me to believe he thought that I shouldn't have even been in the left lane on a bicycle in the first place although he never said so.
  • 08-30-2013, 10:35 PM
    jk
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Quote:

    Quoting Jack Jackson
    View Post
    Of course ... posts are always of this nature. I assume what he says is fact; if he lied, then he has only himself to blame for getting improper advice, right?

    yet we have a cop who, by the courts perspective is an objective observer, stating the guy committed the infraction. Just that same as when this guy goes to court, it is more likely he is "fudging" the facts more than the cop involved.


    beyond that, unless he was in an airplane watching himself, it is quite likely his perception of his exact path is quite different than his actual path. Not only due to the inability to accurately judge precisely where one is on a road but since he was surely not expecting to receive a ticket for his actions he was probably quite likely blissfully ignorant of his actual path.

    I suspect what happened was he crossed the lane division immediately after the yellow line ended and kind of veered across the other lanes at an obtuse angle to where he entered the sandy lot. Even in the drawing itself it shows him travelling the wrong direction in the lanes although to me, it would be quite picky for a cop to ticket for that. If he started immediately after the end of the yellow line; not so picky as the infraction becomes quite apparent.

    and of course, the drawing also shows him passing between 2 cars and around a third that were almost assuredly not in that exact position on the day of the incident. Since he used those vehicles as marker points in his drawing it shows how unlikely we are being given an accurate description of his path.

    so, not saying he is lying but may simply not be aware of the actual path he did take.
  • 08-30-2013, 11:05 PM
    Hazydaze
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    I never ride a bike "blissfully unaware" I am very aware when I ride because people in cars tend not to be aware of anything going on outside their little box. I always follow the same routine of crossing into the left lane near the end of the solid white line on the right so I don't spend too much time in the left lane before the turn. I'm not trying to say I'm a little angel but the turn was no more or less than any car or motorcycle would have done. It didn't extend into on-coming traffic and it wasn't at an exact 90* angle either (is that a law?) it was just a turn into a lot. I can't say what it looked like from the cops perspective but I do try to follow the laws of the road so not to make myself unpredictable to other drivers as best as I can. I have all the required lights and reflectors on my bike to be legal.
  • 08-30-2013, 11:58 PM
    cdwjava
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Quote:

    Quoting Hazydaze
    View Post
    The cars behind me that were going in my direction all caught the previous light at the off-ramp so there was no traffic in my direction so I took the opportunity to make my way into the left lane for the turn. I may have "lazily" crossed from the right lane to the left lane but the turn it's self was no more or less sharp than a car would do straight into the dirt. The light at the intersection in question had just turned green half way through my turn.

    I suppose you will have to wait until court to see just what the officer says you did and how you made the turn.

    Quote:

    I was looking around a saw something to the effect that you could turn left across a double yellow unless there was either a sign or "barrier" like those yellow dot markers or similar that prohibits it in that area.
    But, since the citation has nothing to do with medians or turning, it's moot.

    Quote:

    His actions and attitude led me to believe he thought that I shouldn't have even been in the left lane on a bicycle in the first place although he never said so.
    Of course, you were not cited for anything like that, either.

    I suspect that the officer will articulate that he saw you riding in a direction that was against the normal flow of traffic. You can argue that it was not, or that it was minimal and not a danger to anyone (though such risk is not mentioned as an element of the offense). The judge or commissioner will then render a decision.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote:

    Quoting Hazydaze
    View Post
    It didn't extend into on-coming traffic and it wasn't at an exact 90* angle either (is that a law?) it was just a turn into a lot.

    And the lengthier southbound ride in the northbound lane on the west side of the lot.
  • 08-31-2013, 07:05 AM
    adjusterjack
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Quote:

    Quoting Hazydaze
    View Post
    there was no traffic in my direction so I took the opportunity to make my way into the left lane for the turn.

    That there was no traffic doesn't mean you didn't commit the infraction.

    By that thinking, running a red light would be legal if there was no traffic.

    Quote:

    Quoting Hazydaze
    View Post
    Like I said I do go through the light more often than not, but when no cars are present I won't trigger it alone. I was stranded there one day waiting through several cycles of the lights and it never changed for me and I was right on top of the cut-out for the sensors. I'm not sure what to do in that situation

    Here's the solution. Stay on the right. Go to the corner, make a right, go up the street until you can make a legal U-turn.

    Quote:

    Quoting Hazydaze
    View Post
    I was looking around a saw something to the effect that you could turn left across a double yellow unless there was either a sign or "barrier" like those yellow dot markers or similar that prohibits it in that area. This has neither a sign or any barrier prohibiting turning left into the lot and has a clear unmarked area for making turns through the double lines. The crossing through the lot I don't think is at issue (the guy said nothing about it) it was the change from the right lane to the left and the turn into the lot why he stopped me. His actions and attitude led me to believe he thought that I shouldn't have even been in the left lane on a bicycle in the first place although he never said so.

    The "right or wrong" argument is moot. You got the ticket. Go to court and contest it if you like. If you lose, you know not to do it again.
  • 08-31-2013, 07:19 AM
    Mr. Knowitall
    Re: Crossing a Double Yellow with a Gap
    Quote:

    Quoting Jack Jackson
    View Post
    Of course ... posts are always of this nature. I assume what he says is fact; if he lied, then he has only himself to blame for getting improper advice, right?

    In relation to taking a post at face value, there is something to that - it's possible to be too skeptical of what somebody says. On the other hand, some people contradict themselves, some people tell stories that (even if true) aren't likely to be believed (see the gazillian "accidental shoplifting" threads), and most others benefit from getting a sense of what the other side may argue if and when they go to court. Sometimes we have to go with, "Based upon what you said," but it's appropriate and helpful to point out what the other party is likely to argue - particularly when the facts as stated lend some support to the argument being described.
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