Bar Fight Leads To Homicide

i am new to this site, but just wanted to throw some stuff out there and see if any one has any comments or ideas. im from a small island in b.c canada and yet another one of our young boys have been murdered. now being from such a small town, we are all very effected by these murders.
A 20 year old boy was killed at a local bar this weekend. this bar has 4 pending lawsuits aswell as 32 incidents reported (and believe me that is just the beginning) My friend Micheal had accidently moved a pool ball and two brothers took it upon themselves to beat him to near death. Now , if that wasnt bad enough, the fight was not stopped soon enough, and the friend with Micheal, when he went to get help, was thrown against the wall and then out of the bar himself. Micheal had obvious neck injuries and was unconsious. the bouncer (or meathead as i like to refer to them as) then dragged micheal lifeless body and dumped him outside, not only smashing his head on the cement, but them leaving him to die out there. Two young but amazing individuals cared for micheal and called the ambulance when no one else would come to his aid. now you telll me who is responsible for his death?

I normally do not repsond to inquires, but, because of a few factors involved, I will input my 2cents.

I saw the news article and it appears the bar was the negligent party because it was the bars bouncers that tossed that guy out like they did and his injuries appeared to be quite obvious.

The bouncers also neglected to react quick enough to stop the battle this guy was in.

This bar has had many problems in the past with such activity { fights}.


I have been to Nanaimo and love it there. My wife and soon to be born child are there and as soon as I can, I'll be there, too.

There are better bars and pubs there and, unfortunately, this guy was in the wrong bar. The one we are discussing is one that should have been shut down many years ago.

Who is resposible? In my opinion:

The bar, for not cleaning up its clientel and for having bouncers that would rather watch a fight than stop it.

I also think the bouncers should be held accountable for failing to render aid, negligence, wreckless indifference, and/or being party to a homocide.

Of course, it goes without saying, the brothers that actually caused the death.

Maybe this incident will make the city council take some action against the bar and because until now it has not, I would also say the city is responsible for failing to address the issue before now.

zedex you forgot to mention the victim, himself as being responsible. If he went to this place knowing it has a history then he was aware bad things could happen there.

without having read this article, and having only the OP's story to go on, I don't see how you can blame the victim. something bad COULD happen anywhere, that doesn't make it your fault for getting killed.

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Quoting GreatGadsby

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without having read this article, and having only the OP's story to go on, I don't see how you can blame the victim. something bad COULD happen anywhere, that doesn't make it your fault for getting killed.

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I agree. We have all, I'm sure, found ourselves in some undesirable situation brought on by someone else. That victim and his friend only went to play a game of pool. They did not go in there looking for a fight, nor did they expect one.

The victim never stood a chance because he was immediately jumped by the aggressors without warning and over something that was nothing more than a trivial accident that could have been fixed in less than a second-- a bumped ball that barely rolled. There was no wager on the game, no bets at all. It was a GAME. And this was worth killing someone over?

Another important point worth mentioning is that the friend insists they did not know the history of the place, the victim we cannot ask, and there is no indication that these guys have ever been there before. So, is it fair to say they are now at fault for NOT knowing?? Do you, BlueCrystal, feel that they should have done their homework on which bar to visit? Maybe which bar has better tables? Rounder balls? Which bar will promise, and deliver on that promise, the customer's safety? Maybe they should have asked when they entered if anyone was in a killing mood?

It is crazy to blame the victim for wanting to play a game and getting killed for it.

As GreatGadsby states:"something bad could happen anywhere". Think of the recent school shootings. Lets not blame the shooters. Instead, lets blame the kids for being there. Lets blame the parents for sending and lets blame the gov't for making schooling a requirement.
imagine you are sitting at a redlight. BAM!!! You got rearended. Guess what.... it is your fault for being there.

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Quoting zedex

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Do you, BlueCrystal, feel that they should have done their homework on which bar to visit?

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Yes. Definitely!

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Maybe which bar has better tables? Rounder balls? Which bar will promise, and deliver on that promise, the customer's safety?

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If they had checked in to the bar and the neighborhood it was located in perhaps the young man's death could have been prevented.

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Maybe they should have asked when they entered if anyone was in a killing mood?

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Maybe they should of thought, is this a proper place for nice young men to be?

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It is crazy to blame the victim for wanting to play a game and getting killed for it.

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If you're going to swim with sharks and act like sharks, you better be a shark or you're going to get you're butt eatten.

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As GreatGadsby states:"something bad could happen anywhere". Think of the recent school shootings. Lets not blame the shooters. Instead, lets blame the kids for being there. Lets blame the parents for sending and lets blame the gov't for making schooling a requirement.

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There is nothing wrong with home schooling and many home schooled children do better on tests than the national average.

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imagine you are sitting at a redlight. BAM!!! You got rearended. Guess what.... it is your fault for being there.

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It's your fault if you stop in a bad neighbor and get robbed and raped due to being rearended. You have to use common sense in choosing where, when, and how you go to places and to what places you go.

BlueCrystal, do you live in Nanaimo? Did you know these guys? Have you been to this bar? Do you know where this bar is? What it is next to?? Do you know this area of town??

And to say it is my fault if I stop at a redlight and get rearended? And beyond that, it is my fault I got robbed and raped because I was LEGALLY OBLIGATED to stop at this light? Not once did I say I was in a bad neighborhood.


I will keep in mind your previous response. If I should decide to go to a bar, I will call in advance and ask if the area is a good one and request background checks on everyone there, and anyone that comes in. I will furthermore ask each person, over the phone, if they feel like killing me. In fact, I will do that before I go anywhere from now on, McDonalds included.

Your comment about sharks was unfounded as well. These guys were playing a game of pool with no bets made. These guys were on their first drink and blood tests proved neither had any measurable alcohol in their systems. The aggressors did, however.

Neither of these guys had a criminal record, either. But, that makes them "acting like sharks".

Keep your words in mind, BlueCrystal. If someone breaks into your home and steals your money, TV, stereo, etc is it your fault. Don't waste the police time or the courts time making reports. It is YOUR fault.

Tell this to the parents of kids kidnapped, killed, raped, or whatever. Tell them it is their fault because they had the kid to begin with.

Zedex I stand by what I said. If you choose to go to bars and be in that kind of environment then you call upon yourself the suffering that those type of people encounter. You don't have to eat the whole pie to know if it's any good or not.

Ok, let state that this bar is attached to a bus depot. So, if someone gets killed by a drunken patron of the bar, while waiting for the bus, it is the dead person's fault for not having a car, right?

Somehow, I just don't think that will stand in the eyes of a jury.

"Your Honor, I killed the old lady because she was at the bus depot"
"Did she do or say anything to you?"
"No"
"Did she threaten you?"
"No. She was there, it was her fault because she was just there"
Jury: " We, the jury, find the defendant innocent because the lady should have owned a car. Set him free. He is not responsible"

Another trial:

"I was sitting at the redlight when this person rammed the back of my car. Then he robbed and raped me"
"Your Honor, she should not have stopped at the traffic signal. To do that was just plain stupid. And, since I crashed her car, I figured why not rob and rape her, too. It is her fault she was stopped, so why not?"
Jury: " We, the jury, find the defendant innocent because that lady should not have stopped at a RED light. And, since she was stopped, she asked to be robbed and raped. The defendant was just doing what she asked for--Set him free."

Another trial

"Your honor, I was sitting at McDonalds enjoying my supersized fries and Quarter pounder with cheese when that man walked in a started shooting people. I nearly spilled my drink when I went under the table"
"Your Honor, it was their faults. They should have went to Burger King instead. I did not like my Big Mac so I starting killing people"
Jury: "Set the defendant free. It was the patrons' collective fault for ordering Happy Meals, when they could have had a fish snawich at BK. The accussed is not responsible"

The prison system should be filled with victims, not convicts. That would be a sad world, now wouldn't it?

It's a sad world indeed when people don't use common sense.

Example your old lady at the bus depot. If she put herself in a unsafe situation then if she is harmed it's partly her fault for not taking care in finding a safe ride to where she's needs to be and avoiding a neighborhood that harbors a bar that caters to rough clientel.

Example your getting rearend. I did not say run red lights I simply said if you are rearended not to stop in a bad neighborhood. A logical course of action for a woman in this situation would be is to call the police and report the accident and then stay locked in her car until the police arrive. In Ohio a woman was rearended and she pulled into a church parking lot to check the damage and the man that hit her car attack and raped her in her own car.

Example your eating at McDonald's. Their food is not the best and if you get shot there, they would be doing the world and gene pool a favor. :P Seriously, it's about choosing to go to places and knowing where you will be reasonably safe.

I know that you and I have two very different perspectives on the world and you may see bars as a acceptable place to enter with your spouse and children. I, on the other hand, wouldn't be caught dead in a bar, no pun intended on this topic.